Hendy Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 I'm quite happy with mesh, I know people worry about splinters but I see it as a marginal worry more risk of breaking your ankle down a rabbit hole. Couple of times with the full face mask I use I have had splinters come through, went to the safe zone only once to check as I could feel something around my eye. I plan on changing to goggles once I can afford a good pair don't like mesh at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fumps Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 Interesting, the job I do I often refer to BS EN ratings as well as CE standards & ISO regulation. So I'm looking into the impact rating of BS EN 166 (the impact rating that most goggles conform to ) and I have to say in terms of airsoft the rating is a little worrying. Most goggles are impact rated to BS EN 166 F this rating does not look adequate for airsoft to me as type F is only 140 fps (correct me if my math is wrong). That actually makes the traders correct in their claims because they are conforming to the minimum standard required to claim impact rating. The ratings are explained in the two links below. http://www.nothingbutsafetyglasses.com/advice/standards http://www.safetyspecs.co.uk/BS%20EN%20166.htm I personally think there could be an issue as the standards (as usual with BS standards) are not clear enough to the user. There could be a gap in the market there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zak Da Mack Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 I've read somewhere that they used metal ball bearings to test the strength of the lens. If so, the metal ball bearing will be carrying a lot more energy behind it than a plastic BB at the same FPS. Also, if something is an F rating, I think it could be anything between 148 fps (the rating for F) and just under 400 fps (the rating for B ). EDIT: strength F is tested using a ballistic test - firing a 6mm steel ball weighing 0.86g travelling at at least 45 m/s at the time of impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters M_P Posted November 23, 2013 Supporters Share Posted November 23, 2013 Simple. ESS glasses can stop a point blank shotgun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters jcheeseright Posted November 23, 2013 Supporters Share Posted November 23, 2013 Simple. ESS glasses can stop a point blank shotgun fact. ANSI z87.1 is the absolute minimum I would trust my eyes with, it'll stop buckshot so BBs won't even leave a smudge. I work on the basis that although mesh is probably sufficient to be completely safe in 99.999999% of situations that you can get into in airsoft, a polycarbonate lens is 100% proof against BBs. I'm risk averse enough that the 0.0000001% chance of possible eye damage bothers me, so I deal with occasional fogging and just get on with it. As a side note, I'm unfortunate enough to have seen what happens when a BB hits a person's eye without any form of eye protection. Marui M4 firing at 270fps hit my friend Alex in the eye from approximately 20 metres. He lost 50% of his cornea instantly, spent 3 days in an eye infirmary and needed to have a cataract operation because his lens was too badly damaged to ever recover. According to the doctors at the eye infirmary the only reason the BB didn't pierce the eyeball and completely destroy it was that it hit dead centre on the middle of the lens which is the strongest part. That was a low (by todays standards) powered airsoft gun at a not inconsiderable distance which caused permanent eye damage to a close friend of mine, if it were a 350fps gun shooting at a similar distance instead of wearing glasses he'd be wearing a patch. Take your eye protection seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
two_zero Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 Not really scared of being shot in the face... No pain no gain. I got no issue with face hits. It's the eyes and teeth that I'm concerned about. I'm actually a bit annoyed that face is covered, but it's simply not worth the risk. I don't trust teeth guards to protect me from BBs, and as seen in a thread recently, lower teeth get shot out as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Ian_Gere Posted November 23, 2013 Supporters Share Posted November 23, 2013 I'm quite happy with mesh, I know people worry about splinters but I see it as a marginal worry more risk of breaking your ankle down a rabbit hole. Couple of times with the full face mask I use I have had splinters come through, went to the safe zone only once to check as I could feel something around my eye. I plan on changing to goggles once I can afford a good pair don't like mesh at all. I've had a piece of shattered BB hit me in the eye through my Hero Sharks, which is not that surprising when you consider how big the perforations are in the sheet that the mesh is made from - much bigger than most perforated mesh, a bit bigger than the stuff used in full face plastic masks. Despite the fact that HS's must allow larger fragments through, which therefore must carry more energy, when it hit my eye the fragment was moving so slowly that it felt just like getting sand in my eye from wind on a beach. A pain in the arse, yes, but amazingly enough I had the foresight (see that? hohoho!) to refrain from rubbing my eye, which may have scratched it creating a 3-day annoyance, and back in the safe zone simply blinked as fast as I could for a couple of seconds to get my eye watering, which carried it to the outside corner where it was easily finger poked out - no damage at all. A cupped clean hand full of water splashed in there would have done the trick too. Ed has had something similar, iirc. Physics wise it makes perfect sense - to shatter a BB takes considerable energy, much of which is converted from momentum into heat and sound. What remains is then divided between all the fragments, so it's no wonder that there's no significant momentum left in any one of them. As bornleverpuller says, there's more risk of hurting yourself against the environment, especially if you can't see properly because your polycarbonate lenses are fogged. I live in hope that I'll find some lenses which don't fog, which is why I've acquired some Bullet Ants, because James is right, there must be some infinitesimal risk (although it may be that there is a greater statistical likelihood of an accident occurring as a result of goggles getting knocked off than as a result of a BB fragment penetrating mesh - I don't know, but we do know that nobody has ever had an eye injury of any description sufficiently serious to warrant a news story due to goggle failure, it's always like James' mate - no eyepro), but more importantly, any mesh is a partial opaque barrier, lenses have got to be better to see through, so long as they do not fog at all. Don't be surprised to find me selling my new gogs in about 2 weeks though Simple. ESS glasses can stop a point blank shotgun Yeah mine could have stopped me seeing somebody aiming a shotgun at me point blank! the only thing you'd gain is the ability to look down the sites easier. I have found that the rentals I have been using very difficult to do that when using face protection. It's not necessary to squash your cheek against the stock to aim over iron sights, you can shoulder the rifle slightly closer in towards your centre against your pectoral muscle and rather than leaning your head just over "/" lean it further and bend your neck to make your head more upright "_|" - or cut the right lower cheek off your 1/2 face mesh mask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeky vimto Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 the only thing you'd gain is the ability to look down the sites easier. I have found that the rentals I have been using very difficult to do that when using face protection. True but let's be honest, they're toy guns. They're not 100% accurate so as long as you can see the direction on the barrel you're good. Or get a raised rail? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeky vimto Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 fact. ANSI z87.1 is the absolute minimum I would trust my eyes with, it'll stop buckshot so BBs won't even leave a smudge. I work on the basis that although mesh is probably sufficient to be completely safe in 99.999999% of situations that you can get into in airsoft, a polycarbonate lens is 100% proof against BBs. I'm risk averse enough that the 0.0000001% chance of possible eye damage bothers me, so I deal with occasional fogging and just get on with it. As a side note, I'm unfortunate enough to have seen what happens when a BB hits a person's eye without any form of eye protection. Marui M4 firing at 270fps hit my friend Alex in the eye from approximately 20 metres. He lost 50% of his cornea instantly, spent 3 days in an eye infirmary and needed to have a cataract operation because his lens was too badly damaged to ever recover. According to the doctors at the eye infirmary the only reason the BB didn't pierce the eyeball and completely destroy it was that it hit dead centre on the middle of the lens which is the strongest part. That was a low (by todays standards) powered airsoft gun at a not inconsiderable distance which caused permanent eye damage to a close friend of mine, if it were a 350fps gun shooting at a similar distance instead of wearing glasses he'd be wearing a patch. Take your eye protection seriously. That's really unfortunate, sorry to hear that. I'd feel horrible if I ever did that to someone. It's only a game, if you want to permanently disfigure someone join the military. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeky vimto Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 Couple of times with the full face mask I use I have had splinters come through, went to the safe zone only once to check as I could feel something around my eye. I plan on changing to goggles once I can afford a good pair don't like mesh at all. Goggles or glasses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Ian_Gere Posted November 23, 2013 Supporters Share Posted November 23, 2013 That's really unfortunate, sorry to hear that. I'd feel horrible if I ever did that to someone. It's only a game, if you want to permanently disfigure someone join the military.He did, he's in the Navy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendy Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 Goggles or glasses? Goggles glasses seem like they would be more likely to slip off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeky vimto Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 He did, he's in the Navy! Good luck to him. A BB is more forgiving than a bullet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeky vimto Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 Goggles glasses seem like they would be more likely to slip off Mine have never come off. Want any of these, they're all brand new and unused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtTalbert Posted November 23, 2013 Share Posted November 23, 2013 He did, he's in the Navy! You mean disfigure someones arse? lololol.... No seriously, love the Navy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Ian_Gere Posted November 24, 2013 Supporters Share Posted November 24, 2013 You mean disfigure someones arse? lololol.... No seriously, love the Navy Rum, sodomy and the lash... and they've stopped the rum. You'd have to ask the man himself though. I wouldn't know if he's capable of disfiguring an arse... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
two_zero Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 As bornleverpuller says, there's more risk of hurting yourself against the environment, especially if you can't see properly because your polycarbonate lenses are fogged. Thing is, most injuries "I can live with".. having my eyes injured thou? I'd rather not. Never had any fogging either^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Ian_Gere Posted November 24, 2013 Supporters Share Posted November 24, 2013 Thing is, most injuries "I can live with".. having my eyes injured thou? I'd rather not. Yeah, I'd rather some stranger didn't run up behind me in the street and smash me in the eye with a rock too. The streets can be dangerous places though. How likely is that to happen? Is it more or less likely than a fragment of BB small enough to fit through mesh retaining sufficient momentum to cause any injury at all, let alone one from which we would not make a 100% recovery? Hmmmmm... perhaps I need to start wearing a riot helmet whenever I go outside. I'm sure there's a flaw in my reasoning somewhere though. Can anyone help me spot it? Never had any fogging either^^ Which makes you one of a very fortunate minority. Bastard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
two_zero Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 Hmmmmm... perhaps I need to start wearing a riot helmet whenever I go outside. I'm sure there's a flaw in my reasoning somewhere though. Can anyone help me spot it? fella in Brixton that does.. always thought it a big eccentric -until now! Which makes you one of a very fortunate minority. Bastard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fumps Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 Hmmm my choices get stranger, I can get impact rated Uvex goggles for engineering they are free from work I just fired a cheap two tone pistol at the from about 6 inchesd away & it didn't even scratch the lenses. Looking at the options I have I may try these & see how I go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insanityx Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 I use mesh for both. I'd prefer to use goggles but all my experiences of them have been so much fogging I may as well be playing in the dark after the first 15 mins. I've been tempted with trying glasses but I don't like the gaps at the sides + the thought they could jump off your face mid game.I might buy a few anti-fogging agents and try them out see if I can get anywhere with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TacMaster Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 Hmmm my choices get stranger, I can get impact rated Uvex goggles for engineering they are free from work I just fired a cheap two tone pistol at the from about 6 inchesd away & it didn't even scratch the lenses. Looking at the options I have I may try these & see how I go. That's not the best test around- I'd see if you can borrow a weapon with higher FPS for testing, because unless you're be playing on some JBBG skirmish site crowded with 12 year olds armed with orange springers, they won't be tested for proper skirmishes against weapons with high muzzle velocities- who knows, they could shatter on the first shot over 300fps that hits! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
two_zero Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 Hmmm my choices get stranger, I can get impact rated Uvex goggles for engineering they are free from work I just fired a cheap two tone pistol at the from about 6 inchesd away & it didn't even scratch the lenses. Looking at the options I have I may try these & see how I go. I am ashamed to admit mine is from a "both elephant" starter kit. tried them full auto with a factory hot JG at point blank. small scratches but nothing to be the least bit worried about. My backup/loaners is a few pounds from the local DIY store, had same test with the same result. ...using the BE because they fit better with the mask/on my head, better side cover, has holes at the end of the arms where I put a strap try and the "lens" is a separate piece on the DIY and can come loose on impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeky vimto Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 Hmmm my choices get stranger, I can get impact rated Uvex goggles for engineering they are free from work I just fired a cheap two tone pistol at the from about 6 inchesd away & it didn't even scratch the lenses. Looking at the options I have I may try these & see how I go. Do they an orange seal around them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
two_zero Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 Do they an orange seal around them? "we've been colleagues for all this time without knowing? wow!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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