To BB or not to BB, that is the question.

[M_P]

Through problem with bullet shaped ones is the lack of hop up. Unless they accelerate quick and to a higher velocity they won't have much range.

 

As for precision bb's, maruzen sgm's are supposedly the best but they're so expensive and no idea where to get them from in the UK.

I've used madbull (not bad), Z1 (not great), tm, and managed to get hold of some ksc a while back too which were very nice.

 

Remember different guns like different ammo and weights though so my advice is to always try a few different types.

 

Edit: just saw the above post.

Yeah the old Asahi m40 used metal rounds called 'blade bullets' (i think that's what they're called) but unsurpriugly you wouldn't use them in a skirmish.

[Ian_Gere]

Well, I can now add a 3rd thumbs up for BB King BBs - I fired about 1500-2000 of them through my CYMA AK47 on Saturday and they were fine. I did get a problem with a mag not feeding but I'm 99% sure that's because it got a hole shot in it the weekend before!

[Rock-climby-Dave]

Just going to add a 'professional' - I work at patrol base - opinion to some of the points brought up so far

 

car analogy

Yes, most people would not notice the difference between a £10K car and a £20K car when bobbing to the shop. In our case bobbing to the shop would be plinking - it doesn't really matter if you hit or miss, you're just setting hop up or whatever.

When we skirmish, that is much more akin to going racing. there IS someone there with better kit than you. imagine turning up to a race and someone is there in a Ferrari. suddenly your £10K get from a-to-b car doesn't seem quite enough. so you stick on some racing tyres and put the most expensive fuel you can find in it. no, your car probably won't perform much better, but that little extra in just the right circumstance does make the difference to a lap time (or whether you hit that fecker with a systema) or not.

 

BB's causing gearbox issues

It's not a hugely common thing, but it does happen. Obviously working at a place where poorly guns are sent, you do see everything, and BB jams CAN AND DO strip pistons and occasionally gear teeth if they aren't sorted quickly.

Often we get calls from people complaining a gun isn't working like it was when we sent it to them - often poor quality ammo is responsible. Often we cannot recreate an issue someone was having at home as we always use Blasters in store.

 

rifle quality to Bb quality

This is a biggy. Some rifles like some BB's. Most accept most BB's happily and will chug away all day doing nothing special. Finding the BB that works perfectly in any given rifle is almost magical. Blaster Devil .3's are the best in my VSR. trying madbull or other brands didn't offer me and MY vsr much good. other people find other brands work better.

Experimentation is the key really.

[rjmcgough]

I know im a bit late but I have used Zero Ones bbs in my guns all the time and have had no issues with them.

[Ian_Gere]

No reason not to resurrect this thread: what BBs to use is a perennial issue.

 

What guns have you used Z1 BBs in, mate?

 

I can add that I've put over 4000 BB King 0.2g BBs through my CYMA AK without any problems, even full-auto with a 9.6V battery overdriving the rate of fire. I know Z1 claim to be the cheapest quality BBs available, but I've got to say that's not true. 16,000 BB Kings for £26.99 inc P&P is the best deal I can find.

[the_robbo]

Between me and my mates we must have put 200,000 Z1 bbs through our guns. They all use 0.2s and i use 0.25s. None of us have had any issues and i run a 6.03 tbb.

 

Sniper wise i use Blaster devils cos i can get the increased weight i want (0.3 - 0.43).

[Ian_Gere]

200,000 is what I'd call a ringing endorsent, Robbo. Good to know; whatever the problem is that other people have complained about must be rare.

[geoffreym]

I have to do a negative for Zero-one BB's, i won a set of 10,000 rounds (0.25) about 2 years back, i only ever use them in my low tolerance guns (cyma, SRC, no TBB's), the second i put a set in my M16 (systema GB, 6.02mm madbull TBB), it misfed, it dirtied the barrel to the point where i was actually carrying a cleaning rod with me (only BB's i had, and i didn't have any money), and they've even jammed in 2 of my speed loaders. second i went back to blasters, everything was sorted.

 

my 2 pence worth, avoid them in high quality guns.

[Ian_Gere]

Same question to you then, Geoffrey: do you reckon Z1s are non-spherical or are there extraneous bits of plastic left over from the moulding process mixed in with them?

 

BTW, a bloke called Mitch, who runs an airsoft store, told me that CYMA guns come with a 6.04mm barrel as standard. I'm inclined to believe him, despite the price, because my CYMA AK outranged plenty of more expensive guns, with no hop whatsoever, right out of the box.

[geoffreym]

a bit of both, plus dirt and physical moulding lines, worst one i ever found was physically in half (jammed one of my speed loaders), didn't use the rest of the bag because i was terrified of the other half breaking any of my guns.

 

i've used them in cyma M14 and SRC G36's, mainly because they're cheap enough and easy enough to fix it's not that bad if the BB's f*** them up.

 

if your AK is 6.04mm and you don't believe us, buy a bag, clean the barrel, fire 500rds and then clean it again and if it doesn't jam, the cleaning cloth "WILL" be black with dirt.

[Ian_Gere]

if your AK is 6.04mm and you don't believe us, buy a bag, clean the barrel, fire 500rds and then clean it again and if it doesn't jam, the cleaning cloth "WILL" be black with dirt.

 

I don't actually have any callipers to measure the bore of my AK's barrel, I'm just reporting what I was told and my experience. I totally do believe you, not simply because you probably haven't got any reason to lie, but because you're not the only one to say Z1s are dodgy.

 

The thing is 6.04mm, at the tolerances we're talking about, when a quality BB ought to be 5.95mm +/- less than a fifth of a per cent, is quite a bit larger than 6.02mm, or even 6.03mm - basically, for the former it's more than the BB's manufacturing tolerance and about equal for the latter. To be non-spherical enough to jam a 6.02mm barrel, a BB would have to be out by 7 times the tolerance, which seems unlikely, but, if there is dirt and fragments of badly moulded BBs mixed in, then they could easily end up in the barrel at the same time as a properly sized BB and cause a jam.

[geoffreym]

I don't actually have any callipers to measure the bore of my AK's barrel, I'm just reporting what I was told and my experience. I totally do believe you, not simply because you probably haven't got any reason to lie, but because you're not the only one to say Z1s are dodgy.

 

The thing is 6.04mm, at the tolerances we're talking about, when a quality BB ought to be 5.95mm +/- less than a fifth of a per cent, is quite a bit larger than 6.02mm, or even 6.03mm - basically, for the former it's more than the BB's manufacturing tolerance and about equal for the latter. To be non-spherical enough to jam a 6.02mm barrel, a BB would have to be out by 7 times the tolerance, which seems unlikely, but, if there is dirt and fragments of badly moulded BBs mixed in, then they could easily end up in the barrel at the same time as a properly sized BB and cause a jam.

 

sorry about sounding a bit smarmy, didn't mean too at all. but i will say any gun with any quality will be screwed up by Z1's.

[Hudson]

Does anyone have any recommendations for sniper weight Biodegradable ammo in the UK?

 

Heaviest I've been able to find from a quick search are .28s; Marui and G&G.

Just wondering if anyone knows anywhere that sells anything over .3 (Preferably .36), and any brands to avoid/prefer when it comes to Bios?

 

*Edit- Found .3s from A.H. but still looking.

[rjmcgough]

I have used Z1 bbs in loads of games in my ICS M4A1, my G&G Toptech MP5A5 and my KJ Work Sig Sauer P226. No problems what-so-ever

[Airsoft-Ed]

Zero One have apparently resized their BBs to a tolerance of .01mm (according to them the highest tolerance of any and all other BBs on the market) and they've also tested them in all the guns they'd heard reports of not working very well with their BBs and found no issues.

 

How thorough the tests were, or what the guns were isn't mentioned though.

 

Either way, I think they might deserve another chance. I think I'll bulk buy some .25s if they have any deals on.

 

Quote from their news letter: "Our Ultra Accuracy BB's have been resized for 2012 to ensure they now work with 99% of all airsoft guns, and are made with a precision tolerance of just 0.01mm deviation from specification - the highest possible standard available on the market today. We have tested this new size in all the leading brands, including 'sensitive' models that previously 'did not like' our BB, and have had absolutely no issues with our new sizing."

[Ian_Gere]

Well that is good, Ed, but BB King are already @0.01mm tolerance and are cheaper. I dunno if they do 0.25's though.

[Airsoft-Ed]

I only use .25s so I shan't be using BBKings any time soon.

 

.20s are just plain lame. .25s provide better range, better accuracy, better punchy-though-foliage power and they maintain their speed longer because they're dragged by their weight, so hurt more at longer distances. Not that more pain is the aim, it just means people feel them more, so are less likely to be cheating mo-fos who don't take their hits.

 

.25s are superior in every way, except in the fact that they cost more.

 

At 370 fps I'd even use .30s if I could afford to keep buying them.

[jaeproductions]

Yeah the Zero One BBs are really good but it's like an extra £8 for postage. If you're getting something else from there though, buy them all at the same time and you'll save a bit.

I think it's airsoftworld.net that sell these 5.95mm (bad in some tightbore barrels because there is less pressure and all that) Bio BBs in bags of 5000 for around £6-£7 I think. But again, costs a bit more for postage.

I just buy Blasters because I can get them from my local airsoft shop and save on postage.

[Airsoft-Ed]

Blasters are the best by miles anyway, them or Bastard BBs.

[Ian_Gere]

You've been talking .25's up so much, Ed, that you've got me 1/2 convinced. Enough to try more than the 1/3 mag I've shot so far anyway. Hopefully Agnes' new Shark Rubber will arrive before the night game @Skirmish* and I'll get a bottle then.

 

* OPERATION DARKSIDE Saturday 18th Aug - Site opens 16:00 Games start at 17.30, bbq at 21:00, play till very late in the night .

Campimg is free, you will need a tent. Parents welcome please no small children.

Please put your name down on the forum and book online also to secure your space. Thanks.

Remember next day is Big Sunday so why not book in for both.

Can you let us know if you are saturday sunday or both and if you are camping and want the bbq so we can get the food ready thanks

price per day.

members £20 walk on

Non members £25 walk on

members hire basic package £25

Non members hire basic package £30.prices will depend on which hire pakage you are on £30 £40 £50

bbq £5 + £2.50 for breakfast if you want it

[Airsoft-Ed]

I've just bought a giant bag of 5000 Z1 .25s and I have to say that they are rubbish.

 

They don't cause jams, as has been suggested, I'm even firing them through a 6.01mm barrel. I've also tried them a lot in a stock 6.05 barrel - no jams.

 

HOWEVER, they're so effing inconsistent, it's enough to make me rage about it. With Blasters, you set the hop and the shots fly straight. They won't mimic the previous shot, because the gun has inherent inaccurate tendencies, but they don't deviate off their path once they're set on it, until they're grabbed by wind or gravity starts to have an effect.

 

The Z1 BBs behave as though they're heavier on one side than the other, like the .25g that they weigh isn't distributed evenly across the whole BB, this means that they sort of tumble (weird thing I know when something is perfectly spherical) but that's the impression I'm getting, you can see little bits of left/right/up/down deviation, like they're wobbling through the air instead of flying straight. It's weird.

 

Certainly won't be buying them again.

[Ian_Gere]

Sounds bad, Ed, very bad.

 

I just tried to order another 16,000 0.2 BB King's from contactleft (on eBay) but they only have 2 4000 bags in stock. I gave them the url to this thread and suggested I may well have helped that lack of stock. They agreed but chose not to show any concrete appreciation... ho hum, what can you do?

 

Well, you can buy 16,000 BB King 0.2's 1p cheaper than contactleft fromadamkc1985. I don't know if he's going to continue selling BB's or if this is a single bulk buy and sell (I've messaged him to ask), but he currently also has a listing for 20,000 BB King 0.2g's for £25.99 + £5.99 P&P, which works out at £0.001599 or £4.80 for 3000 in your hand - the cheapest quality BB's that I can find in the UK.

 

Edit to add: he says he will keep selling them in the future as he uses them himself and was pissed off about the price of BB's, just like me... B-)

[bigshep]

ordered 16k from adam, got 8k...sent message and another 8k dispatched, still waiting for them. No comms from seller not even a sorry.

[Grounded_Pilot]

I am quite tempted to email Z1 (and other retailers) and ask if it is possible if I can arrange my own delivery methods!

I don't really want to spend a huge amount on 0.25g's and be left with no cash to skirmish with...!

Although it costs me £12.50 per bag of 5000 Z1 0.25g BBs on my local site... which is stupidly high!

Might as well buy 2 bags at Z1 for the cost!

 

 

Also, I have used 1000'nds of Z1 rounds since they came out. Never an issue with them- ever.

[Ian_Gere]

That's a bit off, Shep! I ordered 16K from him and got exactly that really quick... Maybe we should make him, and other retailers, aware of this thread.

 

Yeah Z1 aren't the only ones whose P&P charges seem way too high. Especially compared to Hermes!