Supporters Airsoft-Ed Posted August 31, 2011 Supporters Share Posted August 31, 2011 Right. I would buy a Top M4, but since they're a bit... breaky... I'm thinking of going for something else. Whatever I buy will be a long, long, long term project, because no one on earth can afford everything straight away. Option 1: WE L85A2 Planning to buy the rifle, 5 mags, RA Tech NPAS kit and Steel bolt carrier. This will be around £600 for everything. Then I'm planning to make it awesome with a RIS kit, rail adaptor, front grip and precision barrel and after I've looked at the hop, a new one if it sucks as much as the type they shove in the 1st to 3rd generation closed bolt Armallites, which will be about £200-300 more. So, I'll be spending like, £800 or £900 before I even fire this thing. Ok, well, maybe I'll test it along the way but it won't be skirmished until it's done. Then I'll set cash aside for making it better if it busts. Option 2: Inokatsu 2011 M4 Since I'm spending such a crazy amount of money, largely just to make the gun work well. Would I be better off just buying the 2011 version of the Inokatsu M4? It's like £800 and doesn't even come with mags or a rear sight, but I imagine it'll work better and I'll not need to do as much to it. Plus, it kicks like a real MP5, which is cool. But the L85 might for all I know. =/ If I buy the L85 and spend all that money on it, it'll still come out cheaper than JUST the rifle if I buy the Inokatsu but I'm not sure it'll be as good. So which is more worth doing? Cheap and upgrading to hell, or expensive and hoping it's good enough from the box? Bear in mind, I'll be saving up a bit of cash every month for as long as it takes before I buy either and the bit of cash I save will hardly matter to me because it'll be so small. Like, £50 a month. So at the end of it I won't feel like I've really spent a lot on it. ...So I might as well buy a Celcius or Systema. *Head explodes* Seriously though, what would you guys do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam-the-airsoft-sniper Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Inokastu 2011, Will be amazing. But can only run on Red Gas which you cant get but CO2 will do. If you get a Systema it will need it sent to tackleberry to get sorted out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Airsoft-Ed Posted August 31, 2011 Author Supporters Share Posted August 31, 2011 That all sounds like annoying and unnecessary faff. I'm sure the Inokatsu does run on green gas. It uses WA mags for a start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam-the-airsoft-sniper Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 That all sounds like annoying and unnecessary faff. I'm sure the Inokatsu does run on green gas. It uses WA mags for a start. It is becasue the GBB system is praticaly all solid steel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Airsoft-Ed Posted August 31, 2011 Author Supporters Share Posted August 31, 2011 Oh right. On all the sites it says it'll work, it just won't empty a full mag on auto, unless you take the weight out of the mechanism, which is an actual removable thing. So does that mean I'd have to reinforce the magazines? Can you buy pre reinforced ones? How much is it likely to put the costs up? What's the Tackleberry thing about? EDIT: I just googled Red gas to figure out why you said I wouldn't be able to get it and according to Wolf Armouries, it's just raw propane. So I could just buy a propane adaptor, which I was going to do anyway. But then another site said it was bottled CO2 So which is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam-the-airsoft-sniper Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Oh right. On all the sites it says it'll work, it just won't empty a full mag on auto, unless you take the weight out of the mechanism, which is an actual removable thing. So does that mean I'd have to reinforce the magazines? Can you buy pre reinforced ones? How much is it likely to put the costs up? What's the Tackleberry thing about? EDIT: I just googled Red gas to figure out why you said I wouldn't be able to get it and according to Wolf Armouries, it's just raw propane. So I could just buy a propane adaptor, which I was going to do anyway. But then another site said it was bottled CO2 So which is it? RedGas is good ol' fasion Raw CO2, Oh and tackleberry is a guy that makes Systemas even better! Every systema should go to him first. Red gas is also know as Freon22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Airsoft-Ed Posted August 31, 2011 Author Supporters Share Posted August 31, 2011 Currently I'm feeling more towards the L85. I've had an M16 already so I want something different. What would you do personally? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Finius Posted August 31, 2011 Supporters Share Posted August 31, 2011 I'd rather spoon my eyes out than get the WE L85A2. Terrible gas economics and frankly, not really designed for British weather.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Airsoft-Ed Posted August 31, 2011 Author Supporters Share Posted August 31, 2011 I don't really get what everyone's on about when they say that gas efficiency changes with the weather. For a long time all I used was a gas rifle and I never had a problem. Gas all six mags, shoot all six mags. Never a hitch. Never sprayed gas everywhere or anything. There might be slight differences in how many you can fire before you re-gas, but the mags hold enough to shoot more than 30, but I only ever fired 30 and then just re-gassed because I didn't have space to carry more loose ammo and a gas bottle. So it made no difference to me. Occasionally they wouldn't fill properly but if you filled it as far as it would fill, then shot it empty and re-filled it was fine. Plus, if you get a propane adaptor and just use propane, it's cheap as chips and doesn't clog the mech with silicone. Everyone's a winner. So, WE or Inokatsu? For me, WE is cheap enough to fix when it breaks, but breaks often. Or at least, potentially often. But I don't think the L85 will be anything like a lame as my M16. Whereas the Inokatsu, I know nothing about other than that it costs an insane amount, so drawing from that, I imagine reliability will be much better and construction will be more solid. So initial costs are higher, but then all I have to do is maintain it and I ought to be fine. At least, that's what I'm thinking. Knowing more about it would be good, hence this thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemon191 Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 please dont ruin the nice look of an l85 with ris rails etc lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 I'd rather spoon my eyes out than get the WE L85A2. Terrible gas economics and frankly, not really designed for British weather. As an SA80 fan, I find myself (rather sadly) in agrement with Finius. The whole metal chassis of the L85 really doesn't work in Britain. The entire operating mechanism, the frame, all steel. Think metal gas pistol, only worse. I've seen someone use one (at roughly 19C) and get through about 15 rounds (fresh mag, gun not used previously that day) - at which point the gas has cooled the gun by a lot, and the magazine just vents all the gas. Put in a fresh mag, only managed 4 shots. In the really warm summer weather we had a few weeks ago, it did ok, but it still vented and WE G36Cs were doing far better. That said, I won't say get the other gun, simply because I know absolutely nothing about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Airsoft-Ed Posted August 31, 2011 Author Supporters Share Posted August 31, 2011 Metal gas pistol only worse? Do you have trouble with your Sig then? Seriously, until my last skirmish, I've only ever used gas weapons and I've honestly never had gas venting problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 To an extent yes. Cold weather in Yorkshire, I've had the thing vent after 6 rounds (1 double tap, the rest with about 5 second pauses). In weather around the 15C, providing I don't double tap (or just go absoluely mental and spam the trigger) I can usually get through a mag and a half (24 rounds) before the thing is abolutely freezing. After that, it's pretty hit or miss if it'll continue shooting or just go "psssssh!" and vent everywhere. Warmer temperature, it's better. In the 20C+ mark, I managed to get through 3 mags before it vented (that said, I only have 3 so I have no idea if it could do more or not). The only gas weapons (not including snipers) I've ever seen that work well and don't vent are the plastic framed ones, like I said the WE G36/G39 is probably the most reliable I've seen. Still, I've no idea what the M4 you're considering is like so I can't say if it's better or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Rock-climby-Dave Posted August 31, 2011 Supporters Share Posted August 31, 2011 If I was going to spend £lots on a GBBR it would have to be the Inokhatsu. why are you buying a GBBR? realistically, It's because It's more fun to shoot and goes all kicky when you pull the trigger, and the Inokhatsu does that far better than any WE can. (but I do still love my G36) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Airsoft-Ed Posted August 31, 2011 Author Supporters Share Posted August 31, 2011 Largely because I started off with one and they're just so much more fun. It's just that the one I started with had the most god awful accuracy ever. So I just want one that can hit people. I've never had gas issues as I said. I play in an enclosed wood in a large valley, so tree cover and the dip must make up a lot of difference, I'm in Yorkshire too and I've never seen the problems you've mentioned and the coldest I used my M16 must've been around the 5 degree mark. But really it's just the noise, the feel, the functionality. I hate that you don't have to chamber a round in AEGs, I hate that they drop rounds when you take out the mag and I hate that they don't strip down like real ones. I also hate that you can fire them without ammo and that the charging handle never goes the full way back. I'm just a realism freak I wish I wasn't, then I'd be satisfied with a good ol' reliable AEG, but they just don't hit the mark for me. Also, the fact they run on batteries just makes them feel like toys to me =\ gas guns are so much more solid feeling. Weight distribution is more realistic as well, and pulling the trigger is an event. Nothing happens when you fire an AEG, you're just completing a circuit. I dunno, I can't explain it further lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 I completely get where you're coming from (but I don't think I'm as...errr...'devoted' to the cause as you are....) I could have bought an electric P226. It would have been £40 cheaper than my P229, and wouldn't have required gas at £10 per bottle (that said, I've only bought 2 bottles in a year). Why didn't I buy the EAP? Because it was boring. It didn't have the fun, or realism factors. It was just a brick, shaped like a gun. Whereas my GBBP is almost like having the real thing. Take down, action, feeling, kick back. I won't say sound just because my P229 makes a fairly lack-luster burp sound... GBBs over EBBs everytime for me. Although after all the crap from the cheaply made AAL85 EBB, I may be a tad biased... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatch Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 I totally agree, not as extreme I guess as you, I wish I could afford to run a gbbr, but I can't. I might give a gas M11 a go in future as I play solid CQB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters M_P Posted August 31, 2011 Supporters Share Posted August 31, 2011 Tbh, they aren't that expensive to run. You use a LOT less bb's due to the mag capacity but u pay for gas so it kind of cancels itself out. I'll right a reply in the morning cause in tired atm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Liam Porter Posted August 31, 2011 Supporters Share Posted August 31, 2011 Wish I could use a GBBR too, but none of my local sites allow them (apart from pistols). One allows single shot GBB, but limited to 300 FPS on a .20g.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters M_P Posted September 1, 2011 Supporters Share Posted September 1, 2011 Ok, basically, inokatsu all the way. Kicks like a bitc, faultless build quality (apart from the seemline on the magwell). REALLY easy to get parts for as its western arms based which is the best m4 system. It will need co2 to run properly, propane may work but is use co2 anyway. Just be aware of heavy mags, much weightier than normal, though not much of a problem.. Id also suggest a g&p W.O.C. good guns, much cheaper but obviously not as good I'll update if I remember any more stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Airsoft-Ed Posted September 1, 2011 Author Supporters Share Posted September 1, 2011 I think I'd like the better build of the Inokatsu so I think I will aim for that in the long run. Cheers. Does anyone know a place that sells them in the UK, or will I have to import? Also, if I'll need to run it off CO2, can you get WA mags that take CO2 bulbs or would I need some sort of mod or rig to do it? In the short run, I've been looking at the G39 and although I wasn't that much of a fan, I think I might get one to be going on with. I can't actually believe how cheap they are, mags are a bit more pricey than usual but you can get the rifle itself for under £220 and everyone on here seems to rave about it being practically an AEG in terms of performance, which is great. So what does anyone know about that? Does it need any reinforced parts out the box, or are there any parts in particular that are likely to give up on me early on etc? If it sounds unreliable then I'll just get saving for the Inokatsu. What would anyone say my total costs are going to be? Obviously I'll need the rifle and I'll aim for getting 6 mags in total, but is there anything else I'll need for it, or will it literally be fine as it comes? No NPAS or anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam-the-airsoft-sniper Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 I don't think the Inokatsu is even out yet :/ http://www.inokatsu.com/ProductDetails.asp...;ProductID=1042 http://www.redwolfairsoft.com/redwolf/airs...per_Version.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters M_P Posted September 1, 2011 Supporters Share Posted September 1, 2011 There are a lot of reports of g39's firing under 350 on green, so you might not.need the npas G39's are brilliant from stock, and are so reliable, as in work in sub 0 temperatures. The ino will have to be imported, probably from red wolf And cam, u can get them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Airsoft-Ed Posted September 1, 2011 Author Supporters Share Posted September 1, 2011 Just priced up the Inokatsu from RedWolf. £601 for the rifle, but at least it comes with a rear sight carry handle on this site and there's free shipping! Joy of joys Mags are £43 each, which is a bit much and then there's the customs charges VAT I think is at 20% at the mo, meaning I'll be charged upwards of £170 So all in all it'll cost around £1050-1200... To be fair, that's not a lot more than the WE would've cost, so I guess it's not all bad. Though you have said it'll have to run off CO2, that pricing if it I use green gas... I couldn't find any CO2 mags and apparently you can't get Red Gas in this country, so how would I run it? I also just looked at the NPAS kit, which I think I'll probably need. The RA Tech one replaces the entire bolt and costs over £150 lol F*** Plus, in the photo, it's silver! I don't want a silver bolt assembly! D= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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