The Waco Kid Posted July 1 Author Share Posted July 1 (edited) Important pack features: or “Things that affect how your ruck takes load. And no I am not talking about your mother”. Buying surplus in general grades such as 1,2 and super are often quoted. Prices roughly reflecting west and tear. • “Super” should be like new. • ”1” Used but complete, probably marked and might have non-critical wear. • “2” Heavily worn. I’d expect to have to do some sewing or replace fittings. Unfortunately these definitions are somewhat loose and I have bought super/a+ grade kit that needed repair and grade 2 was fine. When you get a bigger pack, apart from capacity, the pack itself may be sized or have an adjustable back length. So check it’s the right size. If you can try it with some load in it too. Features that affect carrying the load and comfort are: • Bag shape • Back support/frame • Shoulder straps & adjustment • Shoulder lifter straps • Waist belt padding 1) Bag shape. Short wide packs often put the weight further back from your centre of gravity unless carefully loaded. Example US Alice. Tall narrow packs can be better in the hills but snag overhead and if you go prone can ride up making shooting/watching awkward. Most modern packs have gone this way. Example Berghaus Vulcan. 2) Pack frame. A big bag needs some kind of structure to support the load others it flips about all over the place. I think Internal vs external frame design largely moot, go with what works for you. External frames keep the pack away from your back but the frame can make “hot spots” more common. Example US MOLLE2. Internal frames use a bit of back padding (sweaty back time) or a spacer (airflow back) so the load isn’t poking on your spine. Karrimor SF Predator. 3) Shoulder straps are obvious need some adjustment. I have had a few bags where the adjustment was very limited so once you had layers on getting the packing and off was PITA! Some packs, typically external frame ones, have removable straps. Sometimes after market upgrades are available such as for ALICE & MOLLE packs. On some Bergen’s you can switch where the shoulder straps fit, handy if you have a far neck. Sternum straps allow you to pull the shoulder straps in a bit for stability and to relieve the straps pulling your shoulders back. 4) Load lifter straps are adjusters on the top of shoulder straps that you tension to “lift” the load, really they are pulling the weight closer to your centre of gravity. See how to pack a Bergen below. Useless on packs with no frame and waist support. 5) Waist/hip belts should be the main support for the load. Padding is nice but too much can be a problem as much as too little. Some very well engineered and custom packs use unpadded belts that are sewn to clinch on the wearers hips. I’m looking at you Kifaru! Most belts have an adjustable side release similar buckle. Quite often there are tensioners on either side as well. Edited July 1 by The Waco Kid gavinkempsell 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Waco Kid Posted July 1 Author Share Posted July 1 (edited) Setting up and loading a pack: I am doing this back to front as adjusting your pack is best done with some weight in it. Pack adjustment: 1) Start with the straps pretty loose. 2) put the pack on and get the belt so it sits on and around your hips. This is where to much padding can be awkward. Fasten and adjust the buckle to it’s snug. Tighten up any side adjusters, might be as many as four, so they are also snug. 3) Pull the shoulders straps until the load comes into you back and is stable. Do up any sternum strap. You do not want it so tight is restrict your breathing. 4) Tension the load lifter straps. You don’t need to pull them as tight as possible as this will shorten the shoulder straps on most designs. Just so the load comes in and a stable, you should still be able to look up. Although however you set up your pack you are not beating the little old lady from the mountain village. Plus she can drink her own weight in diesel and still walk home. Edited July 1 by The Waco Kid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Waco Kid Posted July 1 Author Share Posted July 1 (edited) Some ways to load a pack: Method 1 is heavy items at the top and close to your back. This is recommended for effective weight distribution. From top to bottom every thing is stacked heaviest to lightest. • Water • Day sack with stove and sundries under the lid • Sleeping bag in rubble sack • Water proofs, ECWCS is heavy! • Shelter • Clothing • Food • Wash kit • Thin ground sheet • Spare light weight foot wear • kit mat down the inside the bag, away from the body. If the day sack isn’t carried the individual items would be further down the list. Edited July 1 by The Waco Kid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davet Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 but don’t carry too much…! The Waco Kid 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommikka Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Davet said: but don’t carry too much…! Project Payne Spot the difference between Fusiler Payne liberating Europe vs a day or weekend playing in the woods https://www.slideshare.net/slideshow/uk-combat-load/78701547 Edited July 2 by Tommikka The Waco Kid 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davet Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 6 hours ago, Tommikka said: Project Payne Spot the difference between Fusiler Payne liberating Europe vs a day or weekend playing in the woods https://www.slideshare.net/slideshow/uk-combat-load/78701547 A well established and organised logistic chain to support, from organic in-house CQMS at tactical level all the way through the effort to deliver strategically - Mulberry Harbour anyone? Tommikka 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Waco Kid Posted July 3 Author Share Posted July 3 (edited) Well he does have a moscart launcher. I think they called them Very pistols back then. 🤔 Hard to tell if it’s two tone though… 😆 I try not to have more than 10-12kg of gear for a hike. Knees are now fitted backwards anyway. I might just weigh a little more than the average soldier too. 🍰 🥧🍻 Edited July 3 by The Waco Kid Tommikka 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommikka Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 1 hour ago, The Waco Kid said: Hard to tell if it’s two tone though… 😆 Of course it’s two tone …… black & white 1 hour ago, The Waco Kid said: I think they called them Very pistols back then. ‘Very pistol’, not one of those namby pamby ‘slightly pistols’ On 02/07/2024 at 19:12, Davet said: A well established and organised logistic chain to support, from organic in-house CQMS at tactical level all the way through the effort to deliver strategically - Mulberry Harbour anyone? Amateurs talk strategy, professionals talk logistics ……….. Damn you for making me quote that … I work in an area where I keep trying to tell people that we are in the business of high level strategy and shouldn’t get bogged down into the nitty gritty other than to validate data quality as on a valid base. ……. And that we make sure that those along the line don’t try and focus too high on strategy when they need to be ensuring practical realities including the logistics We should inform the high level thinking giving someone a direction, empowering them and trusting them to do so professionally (and that they will push back on us when necessary) The Waco Kid 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Waco Kid Posted July 11 Author Share Posted July 11 (edited) “We should inform the high level thinking giving someone a direction, empowering them and trusting them to do so professionally (and that they will push back on us when necessary)” Danger, purple alert! Autonomy detected! Edited July 11 by The Waco Kid Cannonfodder 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Waco Kid Posted July 19 Author Share Posted July 19 (edited) Some ways to load a pack Method 2: The one a lot of people actually use is take method one and ignore it. Stick the biggest thing in the bottom, ie your sleeping bag, then cram the rest on top. 🤣 Seriously it’s a compromise of method 1. Take the core of heavy items close to the spine and higher up but modify it for expected use. This might be to have waterproofs at the top if rain is expected. Or your shelter by the bottom zip (if you have one) so you can quickly pitch it if you will arrive at your intended camp at dusk. Effectively you are packing b a task oriented way. A “bug out bag” might have everything a hiking pack contains but the way you plan to you it differs. Personally I have less kit in the summer, maybe only 30-40L bag so it’s not especially heavy so it’s easier to have what I want to hand. That said this is the same Bergen with side pockets added for a longer trip. LHS is shelter and next meal plus canteen on top. RHS is set up as a day sack and quick zip off. Lid has first aid plus snacks. Top down inside pack: Large water bladder Waterproof jacket Sleeping bag Food Kip mat Wash kit Extra Clothing* * might get bumped up in cold weather. Order of packing has been changed to make it easier to pitch camp in poor weather without having to dig in the main bag. Next up is water. Carrying it, finding it, making it drinkable. Edited July 21 by The Waco Kid Jaylordofwaargh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Waco Kid Posted July 24 Author Share Posted July 24 (edited) Water bottles and bladders • Metal containers. Some metal containers can be used to heat and boil water in, which is useful. Double walled flasks and closed containers (always remove the stopper) should not be used however. They can go bang shower you with boiling water and potentially metal fragments.☹️ • Plastic containers. The plastic bottles you buy soft drinks in are popular with the ultra light backpacking crowd. Cheap and fairly robust. Clear containers make it easy to see content and how clean they they are. Flexible water bottles, bags and bladders (like Camelbak) can be drunk from using an attached hose or straw. I find these a pain to keep clean but a large flexible bottle or bladder can be easier to pack than some other options. Some more robust plastic bottles can hold hot liquids. Some water bags, often those marked as emergency survival kit or lab use, can be used to boil water over an open flame. • Glass bottles. Heavy, in some regions reusing glass bottles still happens but it’s not uncommon for people to store chemicals or fuel in them before returning. Standard cleaning doesn’t remove all traces of this….. Glass is handy if you are buying neat roadside alcohol though. As this liquid will melt other materials unless you drink it quickly. 😉 • Organic containers. Hollowed out gourds, wooden costels and leather canteens were (and still are) all used to carry liquid. They problem them tend to share is keeping the inside clean compared to modern materials as they offer a nice home for bacteria. Bit if you fancy tabbing along Offa’s dyke in dark age reenactment mode go for it.😁 Features and uses to consider: • Heat resistant containers can be used as a hot water bottle. • Clear bottles are easier to see how clean or full they are. • Flexible carriers might be more convenient to pack. • Wide mouths bottles can be used for water tight storage. • Empty bottles can be used for buoyancy. • Chemical purification tablets are usually calibrated to 1L or 32oz volumes. So bottles in these sizes are more suitable if you carry this, even as a back up. • Old canteens can be reused as cups. Edited July 26 by The Waco Kid Tactical Pith Helmet 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Waco Kid Posted July 26 Author Share Posted July 26 Water sources “Water, water everywhere and not a drop to drink.” Sea water, brine and brackish water are too saline for humans to drink safely. Standard portable purification methods do not usually work. The most effective method for making these sources acceptable is distillation. Basically boiling and collecting the condensed steam. This is resource intensive and time consuming so not feasible for travel. It might be the only option in a survival situation however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannonfodder Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 On 24/07/2024 at 11:08, The Waco Kid said: This is why I hate those survival shows, the people on them are incompetent attention seekers who struggle if tesco is shut for a day. Take the dippy moo complaining about the effects of dehydration, at least lay down in the shade rather than direct sunlight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Lozart Posted July 26 Supporters Share Posted July 26 3 hours ago, Cannonfodder said: This is why I hate those survival shows, the people on them are incompetent attention seekers who struggle if tesco is shut for a day. Take the dippy moo complaining about the effects of dehydration, at least lay down in the shade rather than direct sunlight See, that's exactly why I love them and find them hilarious! "ooooo I didn't realise it would be so hard!" I have achieved the age where I shout at people on the telly. The Waco Kid 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommikka Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 6 hours ago, Cannonfodder said: This is why I hate those survival shows, the people on them are incompetent attention seekers who struggle if tesco is shut for a day. Take the dippy moo complaining about the effects of dehydration, at least lay down in the shade rather than direct sunlight 2 hours ago, Lozart said: See, that's exactly why I love them and find them hilarious! "ooooo I didn't realise it would be so hard!" I have achieved the age where I shout at people on the telly. At least ‘survival’ shows specially select applicants for such skills as sleeping in the sun and making some entertainment Meet David Lakota, ex US special forces* and the joy of his Doomsday preppers appearance. As he lives in Hawaii he has a plan to get to safety in the event of a tsunami, he has skills, he won’t just take the obvious route heading to the high ground ….. * Some people think that the film ‘the men who stare at goats’ was a fictional comedy film. David is from a later generation of the real unit - and due to our team name invited us to join his “New earth army” - we politely declined I did end up eventually blocking him, but I miss our conversations https://ejmas.com/jnc/jncart_channon_0200.htm The Waco Kid 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Lozart Posted July 26 Supporters Share Posted July 26 1 hour ago, Tommikka said: At least ‘survival’ shows specially select applicants for such skills as sleeping in the sun and making some entertainment Meet David Lakota, ex US special forces* and the joy of his Doomsday preppers appearance. As he lives in Hawaii he has a plan to get to safety in the event of a tsunami, he has skills, he won’t just take the obvious route heading to the high ground ….. * Some people think that the film ‘the men who stare at goats’ was a fictional comedy film. David is from a later generation of the real unit - and due to our team name invited us to join his “New earth army” - we politely declined I did end up eventually blocking him, but I miss our conversations https://ejmas.com/jnc/jncart_channon_0200.htm See, that's the thing. I enjoy the "proper" survival shows too, but seeing Terry from Essex who's done a bit of camping and reckons that living off whatever he can find on a tiny island in the middle of typhoon season would be a "piece of piss", fail miserably and potentially lose a finger while trying to chop firewood just ignites something in me. I believe the Germans call it Schadenfreude. The Waco Kid and Tommikka 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannonfodder Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 Personally I find 99% of the "proper" survival shows unwatchable too. Yes these guys know their stuff but the way they hype up the danger. For example making out they're days walk from anywhere, whereas in reality they're less than a couple of miles from civilisation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Waco Kid Posted August 21 Author Share Posted August 21 (edited) Due to Britains historic industrialisation, population level and not especially scrupulous water companies any water source should be considered contaminated. That said and mystic forces of nature aside dehydration will kill you a lot quicker that a bout of the shits. So in an emergency drink. Upland: These tend to be springs fed (at best) or pools that are mainly rain fall fed. A lot of these pools are man made to supply water to sheep and cattle so be aware of parasites. Lowland and agricultural: As in the video above your best bet of a clean source is to try and locate a spring but even so these can pick up phosphates and other chemicals. Urban: Again chemical pollutants are common but poor handling of human waste is also a major issue in most of our rivers and sea shore. But at least Greggs sells bottled water. All made easier if you select the appropriate non-weapon proficiency during character creation of course. Edited August 21 by The Waco Kid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Lozart Posted August 21 Supporters Share Posted August 21 2 hours ago, The Waco Kid said: That said and mystic forces of nature aside dehydration will kill you a lot quicker that a bout of the shits. So in an emergency drink. Except that a bout of the shits and spewing your ring from drinking contaminated water exacerbates your dehydration. So it had better be an extreme emergency to drink water you know to be contaminated to "survive". The Waco Kid and Cannonfodder 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John F. Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 (edited) On 19/06/2024 at 03:33, Cannonfodder said: Another excellent addition to this guide. However I'd like to just make one little caveat. Try to avoid using camouflage kit for DofE or hiking in general. Yes you loose the tacticool look but if things go tits up then it'll be far easier for mountain rescue teams to find you if your rucksack (and other kit/clothing) is a bright colour It's also a good idea to pack a hi viz vest in your bag to aid being spotted in emergencies. Plus it's useful to avoid getting twatted if you end up being out longer than expected, and have to trek along tight country roads in the dark. Edited August 21 by John F. The Waco Kid and Cannonfodder 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Waco Kid Posted August 26 Author Share Posted August 26 (edited) I do personally hate a road March. A) Miserable as fuck memories. B) Long history of Army training tail end Charlie’s getting hit by fuckwits driving ranger rovers. C) Tarmacadam (I am old) being something I avoid when on foot due to knee caps making a grating noise. D) Fuckwits driving ranger rovers. Dehydration vs bugs. I’ve had dysentery a couple of times. Once because I drank water directly from a Welsh mountain stream I later found a dead sheep in. The weather was very hot for the time of year an I’d run through my carried supply. The effects kicked in about twelve hours later as I passed through Crewe on the train. Fortunately back then the bog door didn’t unlock itself after a few minutes. 😁 A cork is light and duct tape I pack anyway….. Antibiotics for the win. Your mileage may vary of course! Literally. 🤮 I used to drink untreated water on the Mountain marathons (yes I was moderately fit once) as we took a “balance of risk” chance on very light kit and speed verse how long symptoms would appear. Largely got away with it. I am not advocating for drinking random water supplies however. Things seem to have become worse on that front. 🤔 On a planned hike where you are not up against any cut off taking time to double check and clean a water supply should not be an issue. I’ve had less (relatively speaking) issues in less developed parts of the world. Partly I suspect, due to taking more deliberate care but also less man made pollution. Unless you are near a lithium mine or something! EV’s for the win. 😮 Edited August 26 by The Waco Kid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Waco Kid Posted August 26 Author Share Posted August 26 (edited) Some sources for training: The UK Mountain Leader Training Board. https://www.mountain-training.org/ Navigation, navigation, navigation! This is the UK body that administers the WGL; ML (mountain leader); WML; EML and SPSA/MIA/MIC (mountain instructor award). I am probably out of touch with current state of award but just doing the 4-5 day Mountain Leader training at Plas-Y-Brenin (not the final assessment) is excellent. Yes I did do mine twice…. Everything comes down to navigation, oh sorry but your gps, fell over. Resection please. Not sure if classic abseil is stills thing though. 😁 Old school books: Eric Langmuir’s Mountain craft and leadership. Peter Cliffe’s Mountain navigation. The above are not “survival” but about how to organise and conduct expeditions and field trips. They tend to get over looked in the “SAS survival guide” market but are much more useful to civilian outdoor activities. No landing Place series. Aircraft crash sites in British mountains. Sad but interesting sites to visit. Ray Mears, The outdoor survival handbook. This is the one that covers the UK and is organised by season. His other books are good. He is British outdoor sage. The Woodlore knife, just get a cheap mora… 😱 John Fenna, various online articles, he used to write articles in Combat and survival and still active in UK bushcraft. I think he is a guide at St. Fagan’s living history site doing Celtic and Neolithic living. I will ask on the forum and update. Hidden Valley bushcraft. Excellent YouTube “how too” guides. Inactive in the interwebs but still a great resource. I’ve tried to make videos and it’s hard work (therefore beyond me) plus an art to do anything that is informative. Some left field references: Jack Hargreaves. Archived TV series on you tube. I’ve included him as background on why certain things are in the UK countryside are as they are (or not). Yes he is some old boy smoking a pipe and taking about fly fishing. He knew more about ecology, sustainability, history and the environment sixty years ago than many people today. He was Monty’s communications and intelligence specialist in WW2. He helped to set up a couple of British TV networks. None of his shows had a script, just 45 minutes of knowledge delivered, no out-takes and very little editing. Edited August 26 by The Waco Kid Diemaco and Tommikka 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Waco Kid Posted August 26 Author Share Posted August 26 Non UK sources: Mors Kochsnski. https://www.morskochanski.com/ Some bloke with an accent and strange taste in hats. Handy with a knife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommikka Posted August 26 Share Posted August 26 7 hours ago, The Waco Kid said: Some sources for training: Jack Hargreaves. Archived TV series on you tube. I’ve included him as background on why certain things are in the UK countryside are as they are (or not). Yes he is some old boy smoking a pipe and taking about fly fishing. He knew more about ecology, sustainability, history and the environment sixty years ago than many people today. He was Monty’s communications and intelligence specialist in WW2. He helped to set up a couple of British TV networks. None of his shows had a script, just 45 minutes of knowledge delivered, no out-takes and very little editing. You sir, are a scholar and a gentleman https://youtu.be/3LkGRxjWQ_c?si=MvpdhQwV0nyFGLpz The Waco Kid and Lozart 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannonfodder Posted August 26 Share Posted August 26 I've always liked Ray Mears' tv shows as unlike most of the "survival experts" he doesn't do the macho bullshit that others try to do (and would probably get anyone it that situation for real killed) 8 hours ago, The Waco Kid said: I drank water directly from a Welsh mountain stream I later found a dead sheep in On the D of E gold hike I did on the Isle of Skye one of my teammates did the same on the morning of day 2 and we had to drag his arse across the island for the rest of the week. Not fun for him or the rest of us The Waco Kid 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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