The VFC / Umarex HK416 Owners Thread

[CrackCommandoUnit1972]

I have just got mine today. A gen 3 model. It's a beauty. Rock solid build, no wobble and all the trades. It makes some of my aegs feel like toys.

 

The recoil is amazing and much stronger than my we g39. I have a load of different weight bbs so will spend a bit of time of dailing it in before I take to it's first game in a few weeks.

 

[CheeseToastie]

On 15/03/2023 at 18:53, CheeseToastie said:

It's arrived. Ordered Sat arrived Tues.

£230 after Brexit tax

 

Seems well put together. 

Going to field it this weekend and test it out.

 

Not used the 416 since October so looking forward to taking it out.

 

 

 

Ok. It works brilliantly.

Feeds well, doesn't leak and just does the job.

 

You very quickly realise how loud the RIF is on a constant full auto (ears were ringing at the end of the day)

 

It is nice not having to reload after every 30 shots,

But at the same time I did miss reloading and hitting the bolt release.

 

Now it's starting to warm up I'll prob go back to using it with my green mags and using the hpa for colder days.

 

[RostokMcSpoons]

Thanks @CheeseToastie

Purely coincidentally, five minutes before reading this I was pinging a few shots from my 416 through an open kitchen window, just cos I fancied another taste of that fantastic recoil and associated aural drama.  Fantastic 😍

 

Glad to hear the mag was good - but not surprised you missed the reloads.   I do like that too, even with an AEG + high caps.   Isn't one of the coolest bits of the big shootout in Heat when Val Kilmner is doing his proper reload procedure?  

Did you notice the HPA improving the shot-to-shot consistency, or is yours pretty good anyway?   (I'm still only shooting at ~15m which doesn't give the truest picture of its performance, though it's already proven to be good at that range)

[CheeseToastie]

6 hours ago, RostokMcSpoons said:

Thanks @CheeseToastie

Purely coincidentally, five minutes before reading this I was pinging a few shots from my 416 through an open kitchen window, just cos I fancied another taste of that fantastic recoil and associated aural drama.  Fantastic 😍

 

Glad to hear the mag was good - but not surprised you missed the reloads.   I do like that too, even with an AEG + high caps.   Isn't one of the coolest bits of the big shootout in Heat when Val Kilmner is doing his proper reload procedure?  

Did you notice the HPA improving the shot-to-shot consistency, or is yours pretty good anyway?   (I'm still only shooting at ~15m which doesn't give the truest picture of its performance, though it's already proven to be good at that range)

 

 

This is with .30 on hpa. (Hop not set for the weight)

About the same as when it's on green gas.

What's your consistency like?

 

Did you manage to land on your feet as far as work?

 

[RostokMcSpoons]

I'd say that's about the same as mine, IIRC.

 

So not very consistent, unfortunately, but then I wasn't really expecting it to be.

 

As for the job... I got an extension on my contract "yippee!" And then had it snatched away ("budget not approved") two days later.  So yeah, I'll be ok for a month or two and then I'll probably have to start selling stuff 😧

[Shamal]

1 hour ago, RostokMcSpoons said:

l probably have to start selling stuff 

Don't do it mate.

What ya got?😉

 

No seriously it's a bummer 😞

Might not come to that🤞

 

Regards 

[RostokMcSpoons]

Awww thanks, but it is what it is, I've had a very good run of being paid a lot because I'm on short term contracts.  My luck is maybe running out, and it's just bad timing personally (lots of reasons I won't bore everyone with).  If I have to sell some stuff to get through it, so be it.  It's only stuff.  I can probably buy it again in the future!

[RostokMcSpoons]

Skirmished my 416 today properly for the first time, oh myyyyyyy I don't care how skint I'll get I'm not selling 😍

 

I did some test firing with the gun yesterday just to check it would pass chrono, and it was bang on 350fps with 0.20s, no hop.  And in spite of what I've said elsewhere it was actually very consistent.  Maybe it had some silicon in the system before when I used Abbey Predator, but switching to Ultrair has cleaned it out?

 

My order of Geoff's 0.40s don't turn up in time (thanks Royal Mail '1st class', delivering after 3 days or more used to be 2nd class, didn't it?)

So I had to run it with 0.28s instead, and of course I've still got just the 2 mags and a speed loader.

Well that worked out alright (in fact it adds some extra jeopardy and excitement to the proceedings!). 

The joy of landing a well placed single or double tap along with the recoil and loud banging and clacking of the bolt and general malarkey was just so tangible and  rewarding

 

I think the ambient temperature was up around 14 or 15 degrees C which of course helped immensely... the gun never missed a beat.  I was topping up the mags like a mofo when in cover, but I stuck to semi only, and regassed between games, and it just kept on trucking.

 

Accuracy seemed good, though not perfect... I'm not going to be hitting half a head peeking a corner at 40m, but it's good enough to make them duck out the way 😋

That might improve once I've got the heavier ammo in there.

 

I did go back to The Stalwart (the Double Eagle m906) for a couple of the games, but while that's better at reaping 'kills' it was just not as fun.  And I used a gazillion times more ammo in that relatively short time.

 

Through the day I let some fellow players have a go.  They all loved it. 

 

I love it.

 

GBBRs for the win!

 

 

  

Edited May 1, 2023 by RostokMcSpoons
Pic

[RostokMcSpoons]

Well, given how much I enjoyed myself on Saturday, I've invested in a couple more mags from Landwarrior Airsoft, at £50 each (don't tell the wife, bank manager, or anyone else who knows me), so inevitably I will start thinking of what else I can buy / tweak on my new "Precious"

I don't know what sort of maximum range I'm getting from the gun - as I was picking my shots to conserve ammo - and there was enough vegetation to block longer shots, I really wasn't engaging at more than 30-40m.  But of course I'd like to be able to stretch that out.

Are there any simple recommendations for getting the best out of my '416?   Anything to help accuracy primarily, but absolute range too?   I've got a bag of 0.40's on the way, which I already know the gun seems to handle well, but obviously I'm thinking of hob rubber, nub etc.  Looking down the barrel, there seems to be barely any hop rubber impinging and yet it's pushing 0.28's to that ~40m range nicely.

As I understand it, the VFCs use VSR-style hop rubbers - is that right?  Is there any point swapping it out?

 

Edit: Just slapped a few shots into paper, that's a 4.6" / 117mm group at ~17m ... that seems pretty good - is it?

 

 

Oh, and an extra Brucie-bonus question:  In the absence of an Odin + an available adapter (Airtac are out of stock, currently) ... I'm using a Viper speed loader.   I was still having a few problems getting the BBs into the mags during the skirmish - so I've not developed a fool-proof method or got the knack just yet.
Is there a 'Rolls-Royce' of speed loaders that I can buy, that'll make the task any easier?  This Viper thing occasionally feels like it'll shatter into a million pieces as I try to jam the BBs through the system.   It hasn't yet, to its credit, but is there something better?

 

 

Edited May 2, 2023 by RostokMcSpoons

[RostokMcSpoons]

(Sorry I keep bumping my own thread, but if it's new stuff, it's new stuff...)

I just received my two "nearly hens-teeth-rare" VFC mags from LandWarrior.   I check 'em both - they were both empty, so immediately gassed them. 
One  of them is peachy, the other is leaking.  Well I've taken the 'easy' method first, and squirted some Abbey maintenance gas in there.  It's still leaking but slowing... hopefully that'll fix the seal(s) because I've never had to take one apart before...  I have a gas valve key - but it's not the right size for the fill valve on the back

Alternatively I could just send it back (at a small cost) - is that actually wiser?   Is a new mag that has leaked always going to be (technical term) 'shagged'?

Edit:  Well, bugger.  I left the working one in the sunlight, and that decided to start leaking too. 
I've watched a couple of YT vidz about gas mag maintenance, I've tightened the screws on the base, and the fill valves (as best as I can with a screwdriver).   They both seem to be leaking from within the mag shell, but without stripping them down I won't know where from exactly.  I've emailed Landwarrior to give them the news and ask for their advice.

Edited May 3, 2023 by RostokMcSpoons

[CrackCommandoUnit1972]

On 03/05/2023 at 16:06, RostokMcSpoons said:

(Sorry I keep bumping my own thread, but if it's new stuff, it's new stuff...)

I just received my two "nearly hens-teeth-rare" VFC mags from LandWarrior.   I check 'em both - they were both empty, so immediately gassed them. 
One  of them is peachy, the other is leaking.  Well I've taken the 'easy' method first, and squirted some Abbey maintenance gas in there.  It's still leaking but slowing... hopefully that'll fix the seal(s) because I've never had to take one apart before...  I have a gas valve key - but it's not the right size for the fill valve on the back

Alternatively I could just send it back (at a small cost) - is that actually wiser?   Is a new mag that has leaked always going to be (technical term) 'shagged'?

Edit:  Well, bugger.  I left the working one in the sunlight, and that decided to start leaking too. 
I've watched a couple of YT vidz about gas mag maintenance, I've tightened the screws on the base, and the fill valves (as best as I can with a screwdriver).   They both seem to be leaking from within the mag shell, but without stripping them down I won't know where from exactly.  I've emailed Landwarrior to give them the news and ask for their advice.

Funny you should say that.

 

I got two mags from the very same company today.

 

Oddly, both mags seem to be a little bit more snug in my mag well and I have to force them in, in order to lock them into place. I have to pull them out when I press the mag release as they don't fall out like my other four mags. Are yours the same?

 

Also, they were both leaking.

 

I stripped the both down, re-lubed (using ptfe oil) all the rubber o-rings and the large gasket and ensured that all the screws were tight. They now seem to be holding gas as they should. Mine were leaking out of the large gasket that separate the main body of the mag and the valve unit.

 

I followed this vid as a guide

 

[RostokMcSpoons]

Yeah, mine are super-snug too, but I think a bit of wear will sort it out.  If not, a bit of gentle filing will no doubt do the trick - there'll no doubt be some wear marks soon enough, to show the sticking point(s) - I'll just work on those areas.

 

I watched that video too, but I thought I'd get a go-ahead from LandWarrior to try it all before doing it, in case I want to send one or both back for replacements.
Did you actually use the silicon kitchen sealant stuff on the gasket, or just freshen it up with silicon oil?
One of my mags seems ok (though I think I need to really warm it up when it's full to be absolutely certain), the other is just very quietly making a gurgling / sizzling noise.   I guess it's a tiny leak but it's not what I expected from a new mag - especially where I doubt the mags are sitting around in a stock room for very long.

I sent LandWarrior multiple emails and they've not replied as yet, which is a tad disappointing - I'll phone them in mid-morning if there's still no reply.

 

[CrackCommandoUnit1972]

It's weird that the mags I got from Patrol Base slide in with no effort and will fall out under gravity, where as these magss need to forced or pulled. They all work as they should.

 

Rather than doing the sensible thing and sending them back, I decided to take mine apart and probably voiding any warranty in case the mags were truely fucked.

 

I just gave all the rubber bits a liberal coating of silicon oild before re-assembling the mag. Id steer clear of a sealant as it might gum the mag up and make it unusable.

 

I would be very interested in what LandWarrior say if you manage to get hold of them. Keep me updated.

[RostokMcSpoons]

Looking at mine (vs either the original, or one I got from Patrolbase too), I think it's the plastic at the top of the mag.  There's a bit of taper to the top of the magazine, but if I'm using my digital calipers accurately on both then there's maybe an 0.7-1mm extra width to the top of the new mag   If I insert it carefully vertically then it slides in with little resistance, but if it's at any sort of angle it jams up.
It won't quite drop free when the release is pressed.  Pretty sure it'll wear in quickly though.   
My old mag also has a little bit of wear in the metal just above the retention slot, but I think that's coincidental.

On the plus side, once it's past the initial resistance, and then a second heavier resistance to the mag catch engaging, the mag clicks into place very positively - better than the old one (which sometimes needs an extra tap to seat it correctly, especially when the BBs are really stacked in)

Edited May 4, 2023 by RostokMcSpoons

[RostokMcSpoons]

... while you here, Mr Commando, have you tweaked anything on your '416?  I did ask in an earlier post if it's worth replacing the hop rubber, or anything else, but I have to say my as-good-or-better-than-AEG group I got with 0.40's means I might not need to do anything really... but useful advice is always welcome!

Edited May 4, 2023 by RostokMcSpoons

[CrackCommandoUnit1972]

I am running mine stock at the moment. I only had Geoffs 0.3g and 0.32g bbs when I played last and it seemed to be decent with them. I have since picked up some Geoffs 0.36g and 0.40g and will give these a run out over the weekend. So far I am happy with the performance but will see if the heavier bbs are any better before messing with any upgrades.

 

I was having a look at the TNT drop in hop unit and barrel but it isn't cheap and I don't know if it would be an upgrade that would justify the cost

 

https://www.davescustomairsoft.co.uk/complete-hop-up-chamber-with-6-03mm-275mm-barrel-for-vfc-hk416a5-replicas

[RostokMcSpoons]

43 minutes ago, CrackCommandoUnit1972 said:

I am running mine stock at the moment. I only had Geoffs 0.3g and 0.32g bbs when I played last and it seemed to be decent with them. I have since picked up some Geoffs 0.36g and 0.40g and will give these a run out over the weekend. So far I am happy with the performance but will see if the heavier bbs are any better before messing with any upgrades.

 

I was having a look at the TNT drop in hop unit and barrel but it isn't cheap and I don't know if it would be an upgrade that would justify the cost

 

https://www.davescustomairsoft.co.uk/complete-hop-up-chamber-with-6-03mm-275mm-barrel-for-vfc-hk416a5-replicas

 

I do need to check the 0.40s will be lifted properly at long range, but the hop is definitely affecting the trajectory properly at 17m at least, and given the spare performance we've got available, I should imagine it'll lift alright, even with the stock components.

 

I saw a YT video where someone mentioned the TNT system, they highly recommended it, but £125 is definitely a bit 'ouchy'.   I found a comment on Reddit suggesting that a Maple Leaf bucking and nub will do much of the work for a lot less money.   We'll give that a go, eh?

Edit: The TNT bucking is available separately, and doesn't seem to indicate that it needs to be paired with the replacement hop unit, so maybe worth a try ...?
https://www.wgcshop.com/en-jp/products/t-n-t-aps-x-t-hop-bucking-for-vfc-m4-gbbr-2-pieces-set

Edit2: Nah, I think aps-x is the name of their system, so it will be specific.

 

BadaBing did a review, it seems to work better at higher FPS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHhm7Y8hAa4

 

Edited May 5, 2023 by RostokMcSpoons

[RostokMcSpoons]

I've received a reply from LandWarrior, giving me the go-ahead to re-oil all the o-rings, as I'm happy to try it myself ... so let's see if I get a good result from that too...

[CrackCommandoUnit1972]

5 hours ago, RostokMcSpoons said:

I've received a reply from LandWarrior, giving me the go-ahead to re-oil all the o-rings, as I'm happy to try it myself ... so let's see if I get a good result from that too...

They are very simple to take apart. Just need a few allen keys and screwdrivers. Took me about ten mins to oils each mag. Mine are still holding gas from when I did it yesterday.

[CrackCommandoUnit1972]

There is this guy with the TNT hop unit and barrel hitting 50m targets with no problem. He is using 0.4g bbs and a higher fps than we can have over here, but it seems to be the real deal.

 

 

I will have a go with heavier bbs first to see how I get on. I have already spent a small fortune on the gun and mags so I don't wanty to keep spending money on it, although I probably will anyway.

[RostokMcSpoons]

To be fair, this gun is so great, if I'm going to spend money on 'upgrades' it'll be on this one now 😎

[RostokMcSpoons]

I'm really not cut out for this tech'ing lark,  I can follow instructions, but I seem to be just... unlucky with it.

I've stripped the leaky mag down to its individual parts, greased / oiled everything, and re-assembled.   It's now much worse than it was before

The leak still seemed to be the knocker valve initially.
I've now taken the damned thing apart multiple times, making stuff ever-tighter ... I wonder if I've over-tightened something, but the o-rings and gaskets don't show obvious signs of damage.

It is holding a tiny bit of gas, once the pressure has lowered after the initial fill (where most of the gas is escaping is now coming through the magazine catch slot), but I can still hear it leaking even with hardly any gas inside.

 

Bah humbug, I'll send it back for a fresh one.

 

 

Edit: Another video of the TNT system, looks good

 

 

Edited May 6, 2023 by RostokMcSpoons

[Ajaxiasty]

To be honest try and fix the mags your self . Simple fact of life is if you do not master this skill you will be disappointed with the experience of a gbbr. 

I can see you are in the honey moon period of owning one .

Maintenance and problem fixing are a must .

I use grase not silicon oil to maintain my gun . As oil fouls the hop ,barrel etc . Makes the gun prone to catch dirt and jam .

 

Get yourself some orings a valve key etc . Good set of small screw drivers ,Allan keys etc  So you can field repair them .

 

To the topic of the TNT Hop. I wonder if the same could not be achieved changing just the rubber and inner barrel for a maple leaf set.

🤔 

I have better results on 0.3 then the guy on video with stock rubber and barrel then he with the upgraded hop  rubber .

 

I belive that due to fps limitations 0.4 bb is a bit pointless . 

My sweet spot are 0.3 max 0.35 .

Unfortunately it's way less accurate then my TM NGRS

 

Sorry for any grammar mistakes as English is not my first language. 

 

 

 

[RostokMcSpoons]

2 hours ago, Ajaxiasty said:

To be honest try and fix the mags your self . Simple fact of life is if you do not master this skill you will be disappointed with the experience of a gbbr. 

...

Sorry for any grammar mistakes as English is not my first language. 

 

 

Thanks, sensible words.  I've got all the tools, including the valve key, just not the skills, or the luck 🥲

I'll have another go before I send it back.

 

I'll stick with the 0.40s as I don't want to have too many varieties of ammo knocking around, I hated having 0.20, 0.25, 0.28 as I'd inevitably forget what mags contained which ammo! 

 

Your English is very good, wish I could speak more languages...

[Ajaxiasty]

Chose a weight and stick to it .

I think with 40 you will find yourself missing a lot . As they are going to be very slow. 

But hey . Maybe you are on to something .

I never shot more then 35 as I think hop will not take it up .

And the velocity loss is acceptable.

Close quarters I use 28 as there is no need for more .

 

I think I will eventually change the barrel and hop rubber . Not the chamber .

 

And eventually I will get a MWS for comparison. 

Just to have the 2 platforms .

 

I don't see any point of doing any other upgrades to the HK . As there is nothing in my mind to upgrade.

 

Who know maybe I am wrong 

Live and learn.