Question regarding UKARA

[Ashhbashh]

Hi all, I'm looking to get into airsoft as I need a new hobby & I have a simple question, Say I have purchased my first gun from a retailer using a defence that isn't UKARA, can I bring that gun to an airsoft event & use it while I wait to get my first 3 games in within two months to get a UKARA membership? 

 

- So buy my first airsoft gun using a defence that isn't UKARA 

- Go to an airsoft event using my own gun & gear? 

- Play 3 games within two months to get my UKARA membership

[Guest]

UKARA is ONLY a potential defence for purchasing, nothing else.

 

And it’s only for the seller to check, no onus is on the buyer

[Ashhbashh]

I just noticed that when visiting airsoft retailers online it suggests that other defences are accepted not just UKARA? 

So to the second part I can bring my own gun to an event? 

[EDcase]

Yes, UKARA is only one way (the usual) to buy a realistic looking (black) airsoft weapon.

Once you have your airsoft toy you can take it to any event without any questions being asked where or how you got it.

 

Just make sure to keep it completely hidden from public view when transporting.

[Ashhbashh]

Thanks for clearing it up for me, There's a lot of misinformation online, I just didn't fancy renting equipment essentially spending money that could go to my first airsoft gun now I know I can bring my own gun that's not two tone to an event & work towards my UKARA membership while I use my own gun makes me happy. Thank you guys 

[Guest]

55 minutes ago, Ashhbashh said:

Thanks for clearing it up for me, There's a lot of misinformation online, I just didn't fancy renting equipment essentially spending money that could go to my first airsoft gun now I know I can bring my own gun that's not two tone to an event & work towards my UKARA membership while I use my own gun makes me happy. Thank you guys 

Good luck finding a legit retailer who will sell you something illegally, as you’ve just admitted on a public forum you intend to use it for airsoft skirmishing, other defences are for other uses 🤦🏻‍♂️

[Ashhbashh]

I never suggested that I am purchasing it illegally? I said I am purchasing it using a membership that isn't UKARA? what's illegal about that

& that was my question, Is it okay for me to buy a airsoft gun using a membership that isn't UKARA & use it at a airsoft event

[Tackle]

14 minutes ago, Ashhbashh said:

I never suggested that I am purchasing it illegally? I said I am purchasing it using a membership that isn't UKARA? what's illegal about that

& that was my question, Is it okay for me to buy a airsoft gun using a membership that isn't UKARA & use it at a airsoft event

Yes, fill your boots, ukara is just a scheme set up by retailers, obviously it's in THEIR best interests, but it also goes some way to satisfy the authorities that Airsoft is attempting to police itself & meet the requirements of the vcra. 

Ultimately no one has ever arrived at a site with a rif & been asked how they obtained it. 

Those kinda questions will only ever be asked if you wave it around in the local post office etc. 

Out of interest, what form of defense are you utilising to purchase a rif, & who's accepting said defense, I'm not asking with a view to critique you or them, it's just always good to know what alternatives to ukara are out there. 

[Ashhbashh]

Gotcha, Look just to be clear here, I want to do everything above board I don't want to potentially break the law hence why I'm asking these questions as someone who doesn't know to much about airsoft & would love to get into it. 

 

& for your question I recently was looking into other membership programs that fall into the defence to obtain an airsoft gun one in particular is called "JustCos" there are a number of retailers online that accept JustCos as a valid defence, I just want to make sure that I'm doing everything LEGALLY. 

 

24 minutes ago, Tackle said:

Yes, fill your boots, ukara is just a scheme set up by retailers, obviously it's in THEIR best interests, but it also goes some way to satisfy the authorities that Airsoft is attempting to police itself & meet the requirements of the vcra. 

Ultimately no one has ever arrived at a site with a rif & been asked how they obtained it. 

Those kinda questions will only ever be asked if you wave it around in the local post office etc. 

Out of interest, what form of defense are you utilising to purchase a rif, & who's accepting said defense, I'm not asking with a view to critique you or them, it's just always good to know what alternatives to ukara are out there. 

^^

[EDcase]

Yep, as said, its just a retailer thing to prove they have sold a potentially dangerous item to someone who will use it for its intended purpose.  ie airsoft not robbing people etc.

 

The retailers selling  with JustCos are obviously desperate for some business at the moment so they are reducing their selling criteria.

If a retailer is found to have sold a RIF (Realistic) airsoft gun which was later used in a criminal way then they could face some legal problems.

I've not heard of any such situation but that's the background to it...

 

 

 

Edited November 2, 2022 by EDcase

[Ashhbashh]

47 minutes ago, EDcase said:

Yep, as said, its just a retailer thing to prove they have sold a potentially dangerous item to someone who will use it for its intended purpose.  ie airsoft not robbing people etc.

 

The retailers selling  with JustCos are obviously desperate for some business at the moment so they are reducing their selling criteria.

If a retailer is found to have sold a RIF (Realistic) airsoft gun which was later used in a criminal way then they could face some legal problems.

I've not heard of any such situation but that's the background to it...

 

 

 

Okay, thanks for the information. Like I said before, I just didn't fancy renting equipment at an event when I could use that money for my first gun, I understand airsoft can get expensive so I'd rather put the money straight into my own equipment. I really wanna get into airsoft, its something I've wanted to do for a long time looks a lot of fun

Again thanks for the information bud. 

[Rogerborg]

11 hours ago, rocketdogbert said:

Good luck finding a legit retailer who will sell you something illegally

 

I highly doubt that BBgunz4U are scouring this forum and matching up usernames to purchasers.

 

 

10 hours ago, Ashhbashh said:

one in particular is called "JustCos" there are a number of retailers online that accept JustCos as a valid defence

 

That's a bogus scheme set up by AirsoftWorld to give themselves the appearance of a defence. It's hard to see why they bother, since it's not one.

 

However, that's their problem, not yours.  Only the seller is committing an offence.

 

 

10 hours ago, Ashhbashh said:

I just want to make sure that I'm doing everything LEGALLY

 

If you're 18+ then you're not committing any offence by purchasing or attempting to purchase a RIF (within the UK), for any reason or for none.  Pay your £20 tithe, buy whatever you want, find out that airsoft isn't for you, and flog it on the classifieds.

 

I'd echo what @Tackle said, be careful with the use.  Don't take it to the local dogging wood or round your mates to show it off, only have it in public when you're on the way to or from an airsoft site, and be prepared to show that in the (very) unlikely event that anyone takes an interest.  UKARA (or equivalents) have no bearing on possession either way, although it probably couldn't hurt to flim-flam a copper at the roadside by talking about your "licence number".

[Tommikka]

 

All of the following assumes that you are over the age of 18

 

1) You won’t be breaking the law as a RIF purchaser as your intent is to play ‘airsoft skirmishing as an insured site’

 

2) JustCOS is a made up scheme.

It costs you money to sign up, and it claims to provide liability insurance to Cosplayers

Liability for what?  Their site does not go into detail or provide copies of the policy 

The retailer that offered JustCos aligns/aligned with a Comicon who’s Cosplay rules forbid RIFs

 

 

Cosplay is not a legitimate defence under the VCRA.

However ‘professional cosplayers’ are more likely to qualify under the VCRAs theatrical defence - they get paid to turn up to comicons, and (to the best of my knowledge are a business or society carrying liability insurance, which has to be shown to the organisers*)

 

An airsofter that cosplays can legally use their RIF for a costume, but won’t comply with comicon entry rules 

 

3) A retailer that sells under JustCos is commiting an offence under the VCRA … UNLESS the buyer is a legitimate ‘theatrical’ cosplayer in which case they don’t need JustCos

 

4) An airsofter who buys JustCos to buy a RIF is commiting fraud, and potentially are conspiring with the retailer

 

 

 

However, ultimately nobody in any power cares - until a situation occurs

But members of the airsoft community care that the situation could backfire on airsoft.

To date the ‘situations’ that have occurred have not been dealt with as a VCRA offence

 

 

JustCos has existed for years, some retailers have been doing dodgy ‘defences’ - which is their problem if they ever get pulled and gave to produce the documentation to validate RIF sales

 

 

Theres actually a different retailer in the UK that provides a tick box when you purchase - the buyer just declares that they intend to play airsoft skirmishing at an insured site.  
No fraud (unless the buyer lies)

Complies with the wording of the law

It’s the retailers problem if they are ever held to account and need to justify due diligence on their side

 

* a while back a cosplayer came on here asking how they could buy a particular pistol as a RIF.

Primarily the answer was that they can’t under cosplay status 

But I eventually put 2&2 together linking their posts to an celebrity impersonation / entertainer ….. they are a business, do professional appearances etc and have all the relevant business & liabilty insurance - they were able to just buy under the theatrical defence 

[Ashhbashh]

4 hours ago, Tommikka said:

 

All of the following assumes that you are over the age of 18

 

1) You won’t be breaking the law as a RIF purchaser as your intent is to play ‘airsoft skirmishing as an insured site’

 

2) JustCOS is a made up scheme.

It costs you money to sign up, and it claims to provide liability insurance to Cosplayers

Liability for what?  Their site does not go into detail or provide copies of the policy 

The retailer that offered JustCos aligns/aligned with a Comicon who’s Cosplay rules forbid RIFs

 

 

Cosplay is not a legitimate defence under the VCRA.

However ‘professional cosplayers’ are more likely to qualify under the VCRAs theatrical defence - they get paid to turn up to comicons, and (to the best of my knowledge are a business or society carrying liability insurance, which has to be shown to the organisers*)

 

An airsofter that cosplays can legally use their RIF for a costume, but won’t comply with comicon entry rules 

 

3) A retailer that sells under JustCos is commiting an offence under the VCRA … UNLESS the buyer is a legitimate ‘theatrical’ cosplayer in which case they don’t need JustCos

 

4) An airsofter who buys JustCos to buy a RIF is commiting fraud, and potentially are conspiring with the retailer

 

 

 

However, ultimately nobody in any power cares - until a situation occurs

But members of the airsoft community care that the situation could backfire on airsoft.

To date the ‘situations’ that have occurred have not been dealt with as a VCRA offence

 

 

JustCos has existed for years, some retailers have been doing dodgy ‘defences’ - which is their problem if they ever get pulled and gave to produce the documentation to validate RIF sales

 

 

Theres actually a different retailer in the UK that provides a tick box when you purchase - the buyer just declares that they intend to play airsoft skirmishing at an insured site.  
No fraud (unless the buyer lies)

Complies with the wording of the law

It’s the retailers problem if they are ever held to account and need to justify due diligence on their side

 

* a while back a cosplayer came on here asking how they could buy a particular pistol as a RIF.

Primarily the answer was that they can’t under cosplay status 

But I eventually put 2&2 together linking their posts to an celebrity impersonation / entertainer ….. they are a business, do professional appearances etc and have all the relevant business & liabilty insurance - they were able to just buy under the theatrical defence 

Right I don't know what to do now, From what I've been reading 'JustCos' seems dodgy? As I've said before I don't want to break the law that's not my intent, my intent is to potentially save some money renting kits at my local event, Feel like I'm stuck in a way now 

[Tackle]

Your absolutely right, it is dodgy as fuck, but no more dodgy than all the vcra itself, a kneejerk reaction supposed to combat a criminal element who in truth are more inclined to use real firearms or converted deacts than Airsoft toys. 

Ultimately your committing no offence, if one is being commited its the retailer who's at fault, but as previously explained they, or you, won't be held accountable unless use your shiny new rif to commit crime, the fact your here asking pertinent questions & having a conscious concern tells us that's highly unlikely. 

So if you want the gat, assuming the retailer isn't hiking the price way above the norm to screw you over, just buy it, get to a site and use it, qualify for your ukara so you have other options, & don't look back, it's not worth worrying about. 

[Ashhbashh]

12 minutes ago, Tackle said:

Your absolutely right, it is dodgy as fuck, but no more dodgy than all the vcra itself, a kneejerk reaction supposed to combat a criminal element who in truth are more inclined to use real firearms or converted deacts than Airsoft toys. 

Ultimately your committing no offence, if one is being commited its the retailer who's at fault, but as previously explained they, or you, won't be held accountable unless use your shiny new rif to commit crime, the fact your here asking pertinent questions & having a conscious concern tells us that's highly unlikely. 

So if you want the gat, assuming the retailer isn't hiking the price way above the norm to screw you over, just buy it, get to a site and use it, qualify for your ukara so you have other options, & don't look back, it's not worth worrying about. 

Gotcha, thank you man, been wanting to get into airsoft for a long time just never did looks a lot of fun, & yeah I understand that I must keep it out of view when travelling to a event I would never have it in view in a public place. But yeah I understand thank you 👍🏻

[SBoardley]

13 minutes ago, Tackle said:

Your absolutely right, it is dodgy as fuck, but no more dodgy than all the vcra itself, a kneejerk reaction supposed to combat a criminal element who in truth are more inclined to use real firearms or converted deacts than Airsoft toys. 

Ultimately your committing no offence, if one is being commited its the retailer who's at fault, but as previously explained they, or you, won't be held accountable unless use your shiny new rif to commit crime, the fact your here asking pertinent questions & having a conscious concern tells us that's highly unlikely. 

So if you want the gat, assuming the retailer isn't hiking the price way above the norm to screw you over, just buy it, get to a site and use it, qualify for your ukara so you have other options, & don't look back, it's not worth worrying about. 

Or just do what most players do; play the game and jump through the ukara hoop. What makes anybody  more special than anyone else? Do the time innit. 

[Tackle]

4 minutes ago, SBoardley said:

Or just do what most players do; play the game and jump through the ukara hoop. What makes anybody  more special than anyone else? Do the time innit. 

I've been playing 21+ years, but I've not got ukara, hasn't held me back from buying waaaay too many guns, most recent one yesterday lol

[sonofsammo]

1 hour ago, Tackle said:

I've been playing 21+ years, but I've not got ukara, hasn't held me back from buying waaaay too many guns, most recent one yesterday lol

What did you get?

[Tackle]

Yesterday it was an ares AS03, got a plan for a folding stock for it. 

& it means I've got even more mags, as I picked up an AS02 a couple of weeks ago lol

[Tommikka]

3 hours ago, Ashhbashh said:

Right I don't know what to do now, From what I've been reading 'JustCos' seems dodgy? As I've said before I don't want to break the law that's not my intent, my intent is to potentially save some money renting kits at my local event, Feel like I'm stuck in a way now 

There is no major drama - all you want to do is play, and you are entitled to do so.

 

No retailer would be committing an offence in selling to you.

Purchasing is not an offence

 

 

JustCos is dodgy, but that’s their problem, and it’s a major stretch to say that the retailer would get caught and bring you into a conspiracy charge.

 

Personally it’s a waste of £20 of your money to pay for JustCos in order to buy something that you can legally buy

 

Do a Google search for airsoft guns to find more UK retailers, choose your weapon and try to check out.

I’m not going to tell anyone what one, but (the last time I looked) one retailer has a tick box where most others would have a box for you to type in a UKARA number etc 

[Rogerborg]

9 hours ago, Tommikka said:

1) You won’t be breaking the law as a RIF purchaser as your intent is to play ‘airsoft skirmishing as an insured site’

 

He wouldn't be breaking the law if his intent was to oil it up and finger the mag release all night long, since (at 18+) there's no offence being committed by purchasing and so no defence, declaration or intent needed by the buyer.

 

Fraud or conspiracy, eh, maybe, but it'd be a huuuuuge stretch and it's never, ever going to be prosecuted unless the RIF has already been used for extreme naughtiness.

 

 

1 hour ago, Tommikka said:

but (the last time I looked) one retailer has a tick box

 

Their site seems to be down at the moment, very sadness.

[Tommikka]

7 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

 

 

Their site seems to be down at the moment, very sadness.

That ‘free’ options gone then, and with a quick search around ….. under new management, associated to a site and both airsoft & paintball web shops closed

Edited November 2, 2022 by Tommikka

[Rogerborg]

Just now, Tommikka said:

That ‘free’ options gone then

 

etc etc

[Tommikka]

1 minute ago, Rogerborg said:

 

etc etc

Beat me to my look around & re-edit