Bio BB questions..

[Egon_247]

Morning team. 

Heard a comment at my last skirmish about bio Bb's and I thought I'd ask the collective. 

Game was stopped as someone got a shattered bb in the eye through some mesh, I heard a guy say that the bio degradable bb's can shatter. 

 

I have searched but maybe my search terms were off a bit but I like to use them, considering we throw a lot into the woods (some even hit their target😂) and 40 odd players lobbing a kilo of plastic balls each is going to get greta thunderbug on a mission.... 

So, for the semi noob in me, do they? Are they bad news? I don't need guilt for blinding someone cos I was trying to do my bit.... 😎👍

[Speedbird_666]

Chatting to the guys at the Z1 shop a few weeks back - they have their own range of BB's and the topic of Bio BB's came up.

 

Basically, they told me that on their range (so can't talk for every manufacturer) the key difference is the coating/finishing - their normal BB's coating/finish is UV resistant, the Bios coating is not and is also hydroscopic. The actual bulk of the BB - the PLA core , is the exactly same. 

 

I don't believe that the just being 'Bio' means that they are inherently more susceptible to shattering these days. The non-bio ASG Blasters are well known for also shattering - to the point that some sites have banned them.

 

I think the bigger distinction between BB's when it comes to shattering risk is not Bio vs non-Bio - but rather cheap vs expensive.

 

[Floperator]

The whole 'bio' bb thing is bullshit really; breaking down into microplastics quicker makes them worse for the environment, not better. Keeps clueless landowners happy but that's about it.

[Rogerborg]

2 hours ago, Speedbird_666 said:

the PLA core , is the exactly same

 

Interesting. My understanding was that traditionally BBs were made of ABS, and only bios use PLA.  However, that's apocryphal and historical.  It might make sense for manufacturers to use a single base material, i.e. PLA.  Of course, adulterated with increasing amounts of Mystery Mass: 6mm of ABS would only be about 0.12g, and 6mm of PLA about 0.2g.

 

Any BB can shatter, and "bio" BBs aren't likely to be worse than ABS for biodegradability (even if the truth is that they take decades or hundreds of years to fully break down in woodland).  Since bios work well enough now, and don't cost a huge amount more, I'm OK with following sites' preferences. If they're mandating bios and getting issues with shattering, that's up to them to track and make the call.

 

Aside, I would flag up that the sites that should be mandating bios are indoors CQB sites.  Why?  Because they can sweep them up and have them industrially composted, which will actually break them down.  Better that than dumping tonnes of ABS (or even PLA) into general landfill.

[RostokMcSpoons]

Spec Ops have always mandated Bio BBs and I think I've heard of just one instance of bits of a BB getting through a mesh mask in the (checks notes) 'several' times I've been there.

It's a shame if they don't break down as we expect... I'm all for leaving the woodland environment and wildlife as undamaged and unaffected as reasonably possible. 

It could also be one more (small) thing to beat the sport down on. 

[Adolf Hamster]

as above it doesn't seem to be the "bio" aspect is the issue for shattering so much as the overall quality of the bb.

 

there was a chap called gasman had a thread on here a while back where he tested a bunch of bb's and rated them, including crush testing them.

[Speedbird_666]

8 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

 Of course, adulterated with increasing amounts of Mystery Mass: 6mm of ABS would only be about 0.12g, and 6mm of PLA about 0.2g.

There’s an interesting blog post from ASG about their ‘Open Blaster’ bio BBs, and they touch upon the materials used to obtain the BB mass. 
 

https://actionsportgames.blog/2021/12/16/_can-you-have-truly-bio-bb/

 

 

[Egon_247]

Good points made by all. Interesting read on ASG too. I'm fairly new to the game and had no idea really, hence the question. 😁

Makes sense that they don't break down completely unless "composted" properly and I can't see many sites running around with a vacuum cleaner picking them up from the woods 😂😂😂

I work in the food industry and that wastes a shed load of money/time/plastic, it just doesn't sit right sometimes. (watches ring doorbell for greta visits.....) 

Edited July 7, 2022 by Egon_247

[Rogerborg]

1 hour ago, Speedbird_666 said:

There’s an interesting blog post from ASG about their ‘Open Blaster’ bio BB

 

Thank you, that's admirably honest of them.  It's great to know that their Mystery Mass is is barium sulphate, although disappointing that they're still using so much styrene as well.

 

On one hand, I hope that landowners don't read that. On the other, BBs are only going to get more biodegradable if landowners, sites and players demand it, and don't just accept that "bio" on the bottle actually means that.

[Harvem]

Why would you feel guilty for a shattering BB causing some damage though? It's a well known fact mesh eye pro is not very safe, precisely for this reason. Someone still wants to wear mesh eye pro instead of goggles it's at their own risk, not something you should feel guilty about at all. At least in my book.

[EDcase]

Buying cheap ass BBs that have a tendency to shatter is a dick move by most standards.

[Adolf Hamster]

11 minutes ago, Harvem said:

Why would you feel guilty for a shattering BB causing some damage though? It's a well known fact mesh eye pro is not very safe, precisely for this reason. Someone still wants to wear mesh eye pro instead of goggles it's at their own risk, not something you should feel guilty about at all. At least in my book.

 

because the aim of this sport is to have fun, not hurt people.

[Harvem]

11 minutes ago, Adolf Hamster said:

 

because the aim of this sport is to have fun, not hurt people.

 

I totally get that and fully agree. But it's also your own responsibility to wear good eye pro, right?

[Adolf Hamster]

2 minutes ago, Harvem said:

I totally get that and fully agree. But it's also your own responsibility to wear good eye pro, right?

 

it is, but given this is a sport where people are coming with varying degrees of technical knowledge (ie don't know the dangers of mesh) why make yourself the person who could have them learn the hard way?

[Harvem]

2 minutes ago, Adolf Hamster said:

 

it is, but given this is a sport where people are coming with varying degrees of technical knowledge (ie don't know the dangers of mesh) why make yourself the person who could have them learn the hard way?

 

Can't argue with that tbh.

[Rogerborg]

11 hours ago, EDcase said:

Buying cheap ass BBs that have a tendency to shatter is a dick move by most standards.

 

How would you know?  Genuine question: do you test each batch of your BBs for shattering?  And if so, how?

 

If so, that's admirable, but I'd be astonished. I've never, ever seen anyone do it, individuals or sites.

[EDcase]

18 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

 

How would you know?  Genuine question: do you test each batch of your BBs for shattering?  And if so, how?

 

If so, that's admirable, but I'd be astonished. I've never, ever seen anyone do it, individuals or sites.

Ones like Nuprol RZR have a reputation for shattering and I know one site that has banned them.

If there are multiple reports of a particular make that often shatter then I'd stay away from them.

 

 

Edited July 8, 2022 by EDcase

[Rogerborg]

11 minutes ago, EDcase said:

Ones like Nuprol RZR have a reputation for shattering and I know one site that has banned them.

If there are multiple reports of a particular make that often shatter then I'd stay away from them.

 

Fair enough.  I won't touch ASG Blasters (not the Devil ones) now for that reason, and... well, Nuprol is Nuprol.

 

Maybe it's something that we should be testing more.  Although you'd be binning what you'd already bought, so I'd be looking at sites to do it.  One of my locals has banned ASG blasters, one hands them out to rentals though... 🙄

[EDcase]

Yeah, it  may be driven by rumours but those start with actual incidents so its worth looking at several reviews before buying to see if a particular type has a bad reputation for poor quality in general.

Its a pity Gasman stopped doing his testing.

 

 

Edited July 8, 2022 by EDcase

[Adolf Hamster]

6 minutes ago, EDcase said:

Yeah, it  may be driven by rumours but those start with actual incidents so its worth looking at several reviews before buying to see if a particular type has a bad reputation for poor quality in general.

Its a pity Gasman stopped doing his testing.

 

yeah, it's a difficult one to be absolutely sure given any manufacturer could potentially have a bad batch, but avoiding brands with the reputation is the best we can really aim for.