R hop

[2RIR]

Hi all, I have a krytac trident mk2 spr and was running it stock, I live in Northern Ireland and restricted to 1 joule so I wanted to squeeze more range and accuracy out of my rifle, a couple of people recommend the pre r hoped krytac barrel from umbrella armory and as it was on sale I got it, as far as I can tell there is no difference in range, the bbs either shoot of to the left or right and my fps and joule has dropped from about 0.8 stock to about 0.5/0.6, and 290fps stock to about 255/268 with the r hop barrel all on 0.28g bbs , now as far as I'm aware r hops are ment to improve everything not make it worse, and the barrel came with a hop up with the rhop arm installed, so is there anything I can check or have I just wasted my money. Thanks in advance for your help. 

[Davegolf]

Now I cannot comment on the drop in kit, but yes an Rhop is great at range as it allows you to drive heavier ammo.

1J Rhop will give you a good 60M+ range on an AEG

 

There’s a lot at play though and Rhop is either epic or shit, that comes down ultimately to the quality of the Rhop ‘work’.

 

The other factor at play potentially is that you said it came with another hop unit.

Is it an original Krytac hop unit or some aftermarket one?

If it’s not genuine then I would wager most of your issues are hop unit/gun body alignment/nozzle relationship caused.

[Rogerborg]

21 minutes ago, 2RIR said:

or have I just wasted my money

 

Every penny that we spend on airsoft toys is ultimately wasted. However, if you can squeeze some fun out of them, you can recoup that.

 

My personal experience from r, s and flat hops is that they're things that you do to enjoy the process of getting back to the stock performance, not because they turn your toy into a laser. A Maple Leaf macaron does the same job (putting more material inside the barrel window) without butchering your hop unit, arm, and nub.

 

If you do want to double down on your purchase, then you've got a baseline energy level with your (sensible) BB mass. If that's consistent, then you could throw in a heavier spring and start chasing 1J again.

[2RIR]

13 hours ago, Davegolf said:

Now I cannot comment on the drop in kit, but yes an Rhop is great at range as it allows you to drive heavier ammo.

1J Rhop will give you a good 60M+ range on an AEG

 

There’s a lot at play though and Rhop is either epic or shit, that comes down ultimately to the quality of the Rhop ‘work’.

 

The other factor at play potentially is that you said it came with another hop unit.

Is it an original Krytac hop unit or some aftermarket one?

If it’s not genuine then I would wager most of your issues are hop unit/gun body alignment/nozzle relationship caused.

It's advertised as a krytac hop up unit, but they put their own arm in it, it's umbrella armory, I know people who have sent their rifs off to them and Holy crap are they good but for 1k plus they should be. 

[Adolf Hamster]

usually the rhop is best avoided given there aren't many places can do them properly.

 

that said, umbrella are one of the ones that i thought could do it properly.

 

assuming no potential for a qc defect (eg patch coming loose) then there's a couple of things might be worth thinking about:

1. they seem to taylor more to an american audience, so might be the compounds they're using aren't ideally suited to 1j and cold weather

2. lower fps could be from a bore obstruction, but it could also be (and tbh is more likely) a leak between the nozzle and hop. did it come with o-rings around the barrel? if not then you might want to try adding some to get the hop spaced onto the barrel (does secondary duty of reducing reciever wobble), should be enough to make the front body pin a tight fit but not overly so.

3. the quality of seal within the gearbox remains a factor, and can have a much bigger impact than the hop/barrel combo when it comes to consistency.

4. and i only mention this because it's a sneaky one, but make sure when you're setting the hop you start with it off and turn up, not the other way around. reason being is you can sometimes get 2 "sweet spots" with the second being at a much reduced energy level yet overspun so much the round can still fly.

 

[Sneaky]

I got my sr25 rhop done by Combat South last year, as I have not got the patience nor time to do it myself.  Very happy with the performance.

[2RIR]

On 25/06/2022 at 19:24, Adolf Hamster said:

usually the rhop is best avoided given there aren't many places can do them properly.

 

that said, umbrella are one of the ones that i thought could do it properly.

 

assuming no potential for a qc defect (eg patch coming loose) then there's a couple of things might be worth thinking about:

1. they seem to taylor more to an american audience, so might be the compounds they're using aren't ideally suited to 1j and cold weather

2. lower fps could be from a bore obstruction, but it could also be (and tbh is more likely) a leak between the nozzle and hop. did it come with o-rings around the barrel? if not then you might want to try adding some to get the hop spaced onto the barrel (does secondary duty of reducing reciever wobble), should be enough to make the front body pin a tight fit but not overly so.

3. the quality of seal within the gearbox remains a factor, and can have a much bigger impact than the hop/barrel combo when it comes to consistency.

4. and i only mention this because it's a sneaky one, but make sure when you're setting the hop you start with it off and turn up, not the other way around. reason being is you can sometimes get 2 "sweet spots" with the second being at a much reduced energy level yet overspun so much the round can still fly.

 

Cheers, have to check it out, that's a picture of the r hop arm, now I'm no expert but is that not ment to be flat, I've no o rings on the barrel but I thought the larger of the 2 springs in the krytac done this but I'll definitely try the o rings, the barrel I got came from their Austria branch so I hope they put the appropriate materials in it, I'm waiting on their response so see what happens. 

[Davegolf]

Yeh, that should be flat, unless they’ve compensated for a very poorly done R patch

[2RIR]

55 minutes ago, Davegolf said:

Yeh, that should be flat, unless they’ve compensated for a very poorly done R patch

That's what I thought, the patch itself looks fine but as you can see the arm is everywhere, thanks for the help. 

[Davegolf]

What is the arm made of?

Does it directly press onto the R patch?

[Adolf Hamster]

Oh wow, unless theres some weird perception going on with that camera angle that is a wonky arm.

 

That'd definately cause some weird behaviour. The arm/nub/thing that presses down on an rhop patch should be a curve, a classic example would be the maple leaf omega nub (with the macaron bucking being essentially an r-hop moulded into a triangular shape and integral to the bucking rather than a seperate patch)

 

Edit- as above is there another peice between the arm and the bucking? Although even if there were it still wouldnt be getting even pressure.

[2RIR]

3 hours ago, Davegolf said:

What is the arm made of?

Does it directly press onto the R patch?

It's made of plastic of some sort and the pin holding it in isn't a tight fit either and as far as I'm aware it does press directly down on the r patch, except I don't think it's a drop in patch it looks like it's been filled with a resin of some sort. 

4 hours ago, Adolf Hamster said:

Oh wow, unless theres some weird perception going on with that camera angle that is a wonky arm.

 

That'd definately cause some weird behaviour. The arm/nub/thing that presses down on an rhop patch should be a curve, a classic example would be the maple leaf omega nub (with the macaron bucking being essentially an r-hop moulded into a triangular shape and integral to the bucking rather than a seperate patch)

 

Edit- as above is there another peice between the arm and the bucking? Although even if there were it still wouldnt be getting even pressure.

I have the omega nub and maple leaf macron in my sons crb, it's firing sweet not massive range but accurate. But there's nothing between the arm and the bucking in my own. 

[Davegolf]

That sounds weird, like it’s more an S hop than R hop.

Is the patch soft to touch / does it move easily if you carefully probe with a bb in-jamming rod?

[Adolf Hamster]

6 hours ago, 2RIR said:

I have the omega nub and maple leaf macron in my sons crb, it's firing sweet not massive range but accurate. But there's nothing between the arm and the bucking in my own. 

 

in that case going back to my response (with davegolf's caveat of maybe it's been done intentionally to compensate for the patch, but that's still poor workmanship) then that block being wonky is gonna give you uneven pressure and spinning rounds off at a weird angle.

 

you could try swapping it out for a stock arm with omega nub, see if that helps.

[Lozart]

2 hours ago, Adolf Hamster said:

you could try swapping it out for a stock arm with omega nub, see if that helps.

 

@2RIR this is definitely worth a try BUT be very careful taking the pin out that holds the end of the arm. The plastic wings on the hop unit that the pin goes through are VERY easy to snap.

[2RIR]

3 hours ago, Lozart said:

 

@2RIR this is definitely worth a try BUT be very careful taking the pin out that holds the end of the arm. The plastic wings on the hop unit that the pin goes through are VERY easy to snap.

Yeah I seen that the pin itself is loose, there is a bit of movement in it, they still haven't responded to my emails so see what happens as they do state if there's any problems they'll sort it, just wanted to get a bit of knowledge from people who know like yourself and the others which is greatly appreciated, before their customer service says its not their fault which I hope won't happen.