advice required - ww1 "trench tommy"

[Spartan09]

hi guys,

im looking for a bit of advice to help put together a ww1 British army uniform to go with my recently purchased lee enfield.

living in Northampton, and having found out that there was a Northamptonshire regiment that served in the trenches in ww1 I sourced an appropriate cap badge.  I also found a Northamptonshire regiment collar badge.  my main question is whether these collar badges were reserved for officers, or whether lower ranked troops would also wear them.

i am also wondering if the white and black lanyards (such as this: https://www.sofmilitary.co.uk/british-army-white-lanyard-for-shoulder.html ) hold specific significance for certain ranks or actions in the field

with regards to webbing, i see both leather and canvas type webbing, as well as different configurations. what configuration would be best representation of the webbing set that would be worn by the men in the trenches? 
i want to be as accurate as possible, though i will need to take one creative liberty with the webbing, in that i must add a holster for a webley revolver.  as i understand it, only officers carried revolvers, and did not carry a rifle, while enlisted men never carried a sidearm, even on trench raiding parties.  if this is incorrect, then i am happy to stand corrected

i have found this uniform set on soldier of fortune: https://www.sofmilitary.co.uk/ww1-british-somme-uniform-set-28975.html  and wonder if anyone else has bought uniforms from SOF before (and i would appreciate any sources for decent quality reproduction uniforms that would be cheaper)

any advice/help that could be provided would be greatly appreciated 

thank you in advance

[Diemaco]

I'm no expert, but believe that the wearing of collar dogs by ORs on service dress was more a between the wars thing. You'll  want to look at getting metal shoulder titles instead.

 

As to the revolver and holster, they were used on a limited basis by other ranks (job dependent), but were usually carried instead of a rifle. 

[Tactical Pith Helmet]

You need to choose a year.  Uniforms were simplified as the war went on.  Things like sleeve insignia were stripped down considerably.   

[Jedi_Master]

The lanyard was originally used for firing an artillery gun (canon), and is worn more for tradition than an actual purpose. Although keeping a church key (bottle opener) at the end in the pocket was a practical use.

Regiments and Corps wear different coloured lanyards, so can be an aid to indentification .  I believe that a white lanyard is only worn by the Royal Artillery (RA), and is a mark of disgrace for abandoning their guns during a battle. I cannot remember when this incident was supposed to have happened.

[Tackle]

Would you not be better informed to contact one of the ww1  reenactment groups on fb etc, not doubting any of the info given by members here, just that most airsofters tend to be "Jack of all trades" when it comes to loadouts, often having numerous to choose from. 

🤔

A quick search shows 2 very specific groups of interest ? 

(PS I might suggest you don't initially mention Airsoft, not everyone gets it & if the groups are stitch counters or historians they may not like the idea of the regiment being depicted via big boys shooting each other with toy guns 😏, just a thought ?) 

[Tommikka]

3 hours ago, Jedi_Master said:

The lanyard was originally used for firing an artillery gun (canon), and is worn more for tradition than an actual purpose. Although keeping a church key (bottle opener) at the end in the pocket was a practical use.

Regiments and Corps wear different coloured lanyards, so can be an aid to indentification .  I believe that a white lanyard is only worn by the Royal Artillery (RA), and is a mark of disgrace for abandoning their guns during a battle. I cannot remember when this incident was supposed to have happened.

That’s a tale that gets told, but is inter regiment rivalry - often attributed to the Engineers due to the close associations between engineers and gunners, and there are a number of slight difference between RE & RA that get attributed to a mark of shame, but are just inter regiment banter

Colenso is often chosen as the shameful event but is a battle honor for the RA, and they took half of the VCs of the battle - you don’t get awarded both a VC and a mark of shame 

 

https://www.7fd-regt-raa-association.com/Documents/A Lanyard Coloured White.DOC

[Tactical Pith Helmet]

Reenactors are an essential source, but don't forget books.  Memoires and autobiographies record how people actually wore uniforms.  There were, for example, fashions for removing the shaping wire in peaked hats in some branches, and some (almost always officers) tested the limits of khaki.  The lighter the shade of shirt the more fashionable.  

[ginger colin]

Hi.  Sorry your request is well out of my league.  When I was in HK there was a couple of shops that had amazing uniforms with excellent attention to detail. Sorry I can't remember the names.  However, have you looked on Ali express there is all sorts of stuff. You may be able to find someone who advises manufacturers. Good luck

[Spartan09]

thank you everyone for all your comments,  and sorry i havent replied sooner.

 

On 03/02/2022 at 09:35, Diemaco said:

I'm no expert, but believe that the wearing of collar dogs by ORs on service dress was more a between the wars thing. You'll  want to look at getting metal shoulder titles instead.

 

yeah, i spoke to someone else about this subject and they agree, with collar badges in ww1 being mainly worn by officers

 

 

On 03/02/2022 at 09:35, Diemaco said:

As to the revolver and holster, they were used on a limited basis by other ranks (job dependent), but were usually carried instead of a rifle. 

yeah, i figured that was the case, but im going to have to carry both simply due to the fact the lee enfield isnt suitable for more cqb areas at the sites i play at..  plus if and when i upgrade it, it will be over the FPS and joule limits, so i will need a sidearm.

 

On 03/02/2022 at 10:00, Tactical Pith Helmet said:

You need to choose a year.  Uniforms were simplified as the war went on.  Things like sleeve insignia were stripped down considerably.   

probably going to go with a later war uniform, probably 1917

 

On 03/02/2022 at 11:35, Jedi_Master said:

The lanyard was originally used for firing an artillery gun (canon), and is worn more for tradition than an actual purpose.

ok, so probably not going to be applicable to the uniform im putting together

 

On 03/02/2022 at 15:07, Tommikka said:

That’s a tale that gets told, but is inter regiment rivalry - often attributed to the Engineers due to the close associations between engineers and gunners,

sounds about right for the army XD

 

 

On 03/02/2022 at 12:26, Tackle said:

Would you not be better informed to contact one of the ww1  reenactment groups on fb etc, not doubting any of the info given by members here, just that most airsofters tend to be "Jack of all trades" when it comes to loadouts, often having numerous to choose from. 

🤔

A quick search shows 2 very specific groups of interest ? 

(PS I might suggest you don't initially mention Airsoft, not everyone gets it & if the groups are stitch counters or historians they may not like the idea of the regiment being depicted via big boys shooting each other with toy guns 😏, just a thought ?) 

 

will give them a look,  though i do personally hate having to use facebook.  and good call re: the stitch counters

 

On 04/02/2022 at 02:00, Tactical Pith Helmet said:

Reenactors are an essential source, but don't forget books. 

i did browse amazon and found some "men at arms" books from Osprey,  should have them this week and will see if they shine anymore light on the subject

 

On 04/02/2022 at 10:19, ginger colin said:

However, have you looked on Ali express there is all sorts of stuff. You may be able to find someone who advises manufacturers. Good luck

i havent looked at aliexpress, but i have heard some horror stories relating to them, so im a bit dubious about using them

[Tactical Pith Helmet]

The Osprey books are excellent I think.  

 

Edward Manning's Her Privates We is often sited as being the best memoir to emerge from WW1.  It was written by a man who served as a private and describes trench life in a lot of detail.  Goodbye to All That and Sherston's progress by Graves and Sassoon respectively are excellent too.  Both describe the appearance of men actually fighting.  

 

Apologies if you are already familiar with them, but I would recommend them all, if you are interested in the period. 

[Tommikka]

12 hours ago, Spartan09 said:

 

 

i havent looked at aliexpress, but i have heard some horror stories relating to them, so im a bit dubious about using them

AliExpress is perfectly fine.

Its a multi trader outlet from China

 

Delivery time will either be slow or surprisingly fast.  Some common goods get warehoused in the UK which can account for some of the quicker deliveries 

 

Horror stories would normally be that it takes so long, it arrives broken, something is missing or the wrong item

is supplied.

This is where ‘customer services’ comes in, via an automated bot:

Choose ‘I have a problem with my order’

Then choose what’s wrong from the list or ‘other’

Upload some pictures showing the items and label

Wait a moment for ‘checking your order’

Choose whether or not the offered selections suit you:

Full / part refund, replacement etc

 

I have only failed once via the bot - because they had sent exactly what I had ordered (It was a multi option item and I picked the wrong one)

 

You can get the same things via eBay, Amazon etc which I will use if I want it by a date.  
 

Via Amazon you’re dealing with Amazons policy, so I had to print the free returns label and wait for tracking to clear until the refund processed

Via eBay you’re dealing with the seller - so the service will be good or shit. On one item the seller was perfectly fine and instantly refunded.

 

Many Chinese sellers are under a government trade scheme and get free postage, that is partly why it’s so cheap (as well as the low wage/working standards etc) This is also why they usually don’t want returns because it will cost more than the item value

 

If a buyer is taking the piss and constantly claiming for refunds then the ‘customer service’ will end

 

Ive had a few mates say how shit and rubbish the service is, one won’t order from China because he had the wrong item once - did he complain - no, he thinks he might or might not have sent a message but can’t remember, but he didn’t instigate a claim via the support process 

Customer service is much more than getting it right first time.  The real core to customer service is dealing with what has gone wrong

[Tommikka]

Have you come to UKCGF Exeter ?

 

 

 

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.4655133297929843&type=3

[Spartan09]

2 hours ago, Tommikka said:

Have you come to UKCGF Exeter ?

I'm afraid I did not, no

[paulyplod]

https://thehistorybunker.co.uk/WW1-Uniforms-for-sale/ww1-british-army-uniforms/WW1-British-Army-Soldiers-Uniform-1916-The-Somme

[The Waco Kid]

On 03/02/2022 at 03:14, Spartan09 said:

i have found this uniform set on soldier of fortune: https://www.sofmilitary.co.uk/ww1-british-somme-uniform-set-28975.html  and wonder if anyone else has bought uniforms from SOF before (and i would appreciate any sources for decent quality reproduction uniforms that would be cheaper)
 

 
Soldier of Fortune.  I can’t speak for this specific item but I’ve always found dealing with them a mixed bag.

 

There are limited sources for some stuff so you can’t always choose but I’ve never had a order go smoothly. 
 

I have found uniforms  to not be that robust. A friend and I have both had items tear or blow seams when putting it on. I may be fat but but if a £20 set of miltec bdu’s don’t fall apart on me I expect a £100 shirt not to break immediately.

 

The returns/refund/replace

process is like pulling teeth via a Jawas arse crack. One excuse was that the return address is not situated in the same place as the actual office so they have to wait on condition report etc. Then sent wrong replacement. 
 

WW1 is not really my era but a lot of reenactment groups do have publicly available(or on request) starter to intermediate kit lists and recommended suppliers.

 

Anyway skirmish as this, their is a reenactment version around.

[Spartan09]

On 16/02/2022 at 20:52, The Waco Kid said:

 WW1 is not really my era but a lot of reenactment groups do have publicly available(or on request) starter to intermediate kit lists and recommended suppliers.

 

Anyway skirmish as this, their is a reenactment version around.

Bit of a late reply,  but thank you for the reply and the warning.

 

Do you have any links to active reenactment groups I could try contacting?

 

On 16/02/2022 at 20:52, The Waco Kid said:

 

I have found uniforms  to not be that robust. A friend and I have both had items tear or blow seams when putting it on. I may be fat but but if a £20 set of miltec bdu’s don’t fall apart on me I expect a £100 shirt not to break immediately.

 

The returns/refund/replace

process is like pulling teeth via a Jawas arse crack. One excuse was that the return address is not situated in the same place as the actual office so they have to wait on condition report etc. Then sent wrong replacement. 

 

Only item I have bought from SOF was a sling for my STEN, so I havent run into the issues you mentioned.

 

I'm assuming (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that the uniforms breaking that you mentioned were from SOF, just a different era to the ww1 set I linked?