Gun comparing and upgradeability

[XukeLho]

Hello guys, I'm about to buy my first sniper and I'm going with a cheap VSR clone to see if I like the playstyle.

My question is, are these 2 guns the same gun and how much VSR-10 compatible are they really?

 

https://www.taiwangun.com/en/spring/mb03-black-well?q=mb03&campaign-id=14

https://gunfire.com/en/products/mb03aw-sniper-rifle-replica-1152189623.html

[Guest Yukarin]

Cylinder group is offspec, AirsoftPro parts are designed for the MB03 spec.

JG BAR-10 is definitely 100% VSR compatible, the CYMA VSR clone might be aswell?

[Skara]

https://www.taiwangun.com/en/spring/cm-701b-cyma

 

This is 10 times better than a Well and it is said to be much sturdier than a TM.

As Yukarin said, Well VSRs have some proprietary parts, both internal (cylinder group) and external (barrel end cap for sure, I suspect something else too).

[E21A]

Cheap VSR copy, CYMA is the way to go. 

[Rogerborg]

I own the MB-03 and it actually functions surprisingly... well for that price.

 

However: it will need the spring upgraded, and the cylinder group is proprietary.

 

Well-specific replacement springs and pistons are available, but are wildly off-spec.  The "500fps" / 2.3J kit I got was putting out 600fps / 3.3J.

 

VSR springs don't fit inside the Well piston (or replacement) - I had to drill my aftermarket alu piston out with a 11.5mm / 12mm (can't recall offhand) bit to get a VSR spring to fit.

 

So I agree: despite the very cheap price of the Wells, I'd spring just a little extra on the CYMA as it might be more usable out of the box, and you'll have fewer issues when you come to upgrade it.

[Steveocee]

Go for a JG Bar10. It's one of the best clones you'll buy and is fully compatible with VSR parts for when you undoubtedly start upgrading.

[XukeLho]

3 minutes ago, Steveocee said:

Go for a JG Bar10. It's one of the best clones you'll buy and is fully compatible with VSR parts for when you undoubtedly start upgrading.

I understand but if I do, it would cost me almost double as those 2 I sugested above.

The MB03 costs 50€ with 3 magazines.

The Bar10 costs 90€ and I would have to buy the spare magazines (and it looks like a picatinny rail as well? not sure about this one)

[Steveocee]

6 minutes ago, XukeLho said:

I understand but if I do, it would cost me almost double as those 2 I sugested above

 

If you went with a Well, they aren't that compatible with VSR so you'd be buying into a dead platform from the off.

The Cyma VSR is probably the middle ground, it is slightly lacking in build quality in one of the few bits you'd keep though (the stock) so as difficult a pill it is to swallow, sometimes it's best to take an earlier hit than end up double buying down the line.

 

If/when you sell, the Well & Cyma will be worthless, the JG will at least hold some value,

[XukeLho]

1 minute ago, Steveocee said:

 

If you went with a Well, they aren't that compatible with VSR so you'd be buying into a dead platform from the off.

The Cyma VSR is probably the middle ground, it is slightly lacking in build quality in one of the few bits you'd keep though (the stock) so as difficult a pill it is to swallow, sometimes it's best to take an earlier hit than end up double buying down the line.

 

If/when you sell, the Cyma will be worthless, the JG will at least hold some value,

So the Well isn't compatible with VSR upgrades? That sucks :S

I was led to believe it was almost 100% compatible.

[Steveocee]

3 minutes ago, XukeLho said:

I was led to believe it was almost 100% compatible.

 

Almost 100% with airsoft tolerances relates to a real world result of about 70% if you're lucky and can do some DIY fettling. Snipers are hard enough to get right at the best of times never mind making square pegs fit round holes.

[Davegolf]

Get a used TM VSR, your being a sniper to have increased long range effectiveness right, so upgrades aside, the one thing you cant upgrade is the fit and alignment of the hop/bolt/nozzle/barrel, this is what you are paying for with a TM.

[Guest Yukarin]

Actually, I just remembered that the JG BAR-10 has the strongest cylinder out all the stock VSR clones. It can handle a 500fps spring setup for quite a while before breaking. Definitely worth the extra dosh?

It comes with a rail too.

[Skara]

Put it this way.

 

Buy cheap, buy twice.

 

You save €40 upfront but you can't really upgrade the rifle unless you buy specific parts, that of course are not compatible with other VSR platforms because Well. You'll end up binning it.

 

You spend those extra €40 and you get a much better rifle, that is 100% compatible with a WIDE range of upgrades (there's at least a million parts out there that'll suit your needs and budget). You'll end up with a great sniper rifle that can still be sold because it has a huge market.

 

Magazines are dirt cheap, TM ones are €12 or something iirc and you won't need more than 1+1 in the gun, you can always carry a speedloader.

[XukeLho]

What is the difference between the Bar10 and the CM 701B If they are both 100% VSR compatible?

The stock internals?

 

[Steveocee]

18 minutes ago, XukeLho said:

What is the difference between the Bar10 and the CM 701B If they are both 100% VSR compatible?

The stock internals?

 

 

Bar10 is built to a higher standard, the stock is made *better* some say even better than the fragile TM VSR ones. The stock internals on the Bar10 are superior in build quality as well. Cyma you'll get pot metal which will work for a bit but then fail. The bar10 will work for a bit longer and then likely need replacing.

 

I wouldn't feel comfortable using a Cyma at 500fps for long where as the Bar10 I'd probably be happy with for a few months before I started upgrading properly.

 

Build tolerances are a thing as well, the Cymas are built cheaply so corners are cut and you're more likely to get bits not line up, magazines are a very good example, cyma mags and TM are extremely close but you normally need to give them a nudge or sand a bit off, the Bar10 is better that respect and is totally cross compatible with TM original parts.

 

Irrespective though and especially with a clone you should already be thinking about an AA hop chamber, bucking, nub, inner barrel and barrel stabilisers or you'll struggle to hit a barn door past 50M.

 

I'm struggling to word this without sounding like an ass. Sniping isn't cheap, there is no magic sauce, you need to be spending probably £500 total to get something worth fielding where you'll have an advantage. I'm not saying you HAVE to spend that much to have a good time with it but you'll be at a serious disadvantage against other snipers if you don't though. 

 

***I am by no means a sniping guru but have been sniping exclusively for about 4-5 years now and have done my time with both bad and good builds. I only ever bought TM in the first instance on both VSR builds I've done and even then sank a lot of time and money into both weapons to get them where I wanted them Even when I thought they were done, something else came up. It's a rabbit hole and experience has taught if nothing else, buy once and buy right (he says shelving his VSR's for a Silverback).

[XukeLho]

Would the Bar10 perform better than a CM70b out of the box?

How much better? Slightly better?

 

Also, just noticed there are 2 slightly different versions of the CM70(1 and 2):

https://www.taiwangun.com/en/spring/cm-701b-cyma?from=listing&campaign-id=19

https://www.taiwangun.com/en/spring/cm-702a-cyma?from=listing&campaign-id=19

Are these 2 the same gun, but with different butstocks? Or completely different and are just look alike?

[Rogerborg]

5 hours ago, XukeLho said:

So the Well isn't compatible with VSR upgrades? That sucks :S

I was led to believe it was almost 100% compatible.

 

No, as above, the cylinder, piston and spring aren't the same.

 

And you will need to upgrade the spring, as it comes shooting about 400fps / 1.5J as stock.  There's no point in using a BASR that's shooting only slightly above an AEG (and potentially less than the Marshals' mates AEGs).

 

Adding the cheapest upgrade kit bumps the Well up the price and energy of the CYMA (and as I found, you might have to cut the Well upgrade spring down anyway).  So why not get the CYMA?

 

Also, the CYMA is slightly shorter.  You'll find out why this is an issue the first time you're trying to manoeuvre through brush, or play pop-and-shoot from cover.

 

All that said, I've had some good times with my Well, but I bought it to be contrarian, knowing that I'd have to sink money into it. I buy cheap knowing that I'll have to buy twice.

 

If that's you, get the Well.  If you want to have a better first game, buy the CYMA (or the JG, or...).  It's all good, really, it's just a game of pretend soldiers in the end.

[XukeLho]

Ok. Its decided then.

Bar10 it is! https://www.taiwangun.com/en/spring/bar-10-j-g-works

 

I'm also considering this scope: https://www.taiwangun.com/en/scopes/scope-3-9x40aoe-with-parallax-regulation-pcs

And these magazines, but not sure if they are compatible: https://www.taiwangun.com/en/other-magazines/50rd-magazine-for-cm-701-black-cyma

And an upgrade on the glasses as well: https://www.taiwangun.com/en/glasses-goggles/ballistic-eyewear-i-force-h2x-anti-fog-dual-pane-clear-pyramex-2

 

Opinions?

[Guest Yukarin]

I have 'heard' the CYMA magazines are a bit offspec? Can't confirm that personally. When I had a BAR-10 the Action Army VSR magazines fit in really well, better than the stock mag the JG came with.