Large Events in the UK

[Seth_Erebor]

Is NAE the only one?

 

If so, why?

 

With on 175 acres of play space, have no other locations been tried in past events?

[Druid799]

Would think A; there one of the biggest retailers in the UK so they’ve got the infrastructure to actually carry it off , B; would think It costa a shit load of money to set up and run so again size of the business they can absorb it . C; not as if they suddenly set up an event that two thousand players turned up at , they’ve taken a good few yrs to built it up from a few hundred players in the beginning  . D; they’ve got a VERY big site with all the permanent bases and what not to run it successfully at the site , plus they’ve got the things you’d need to hold a ‘festival’ close on hand , easy access from major roads , buses , trains , room for a lot of camping , amenities close by (big Sainsbury’s just off the duel carriageway in Ringwood) .

To be honest in 19yrs of playing I don’t think I’ve ever come across any other sites , scurmish organisers or Airsoft business that could even come close to being able to set one up on this scale ? 

[Seth_Erebor]

18 minutes ago, Druid799 said:

Would think A; there one of the biggest retailers in the UK so they’ve got the infrastructure to actually carry it off , B; would think It costa a shit load of money to set up and run so again size of the business they can absorb it . C; not as if they suddenly set up an event that two thousand players turned up at , they’ve taken a good few yrs to built it up from a few hundred players in the beginning  . D; they’ve got a VERY big site with all the permanent bases and what not to run it successfully at the site , plus they’ve got the things you’d need to hold a ‘festival’ close on hand , easy access from major roads , buses , trains , room for a lot of camping , amenities close by (big Sainsbury’s just off the duel carriageway in Ringwood) .

To be honest in 19yrs of playing I don’t think I’ve ever come across any other sites , scurmish organisers or Airsoft business that could even come close to being able to set one up on this scale ? 

 

19 years! Ye gods, is Airsoft that... unchanging.

[BigStew]

13 minutes ago, Seth_K said:

 

19 years! Ye gods, is Airsoft that... unchanging.

been playing just as long. Airsoft has gone from extremely niche to just very niche. As a sport there really aren't that many people playing relatively speaking hardly any airsoft companies have the infrastructure or resources to put on large events.  

[Seth_Erebor]

2 minutes ago, BigStew said:

been playing just as long. Airsoft has gone from extremely niche to just very niche. As a sport there really aren't that many people playing relatively speaking hardly any airsoft companies have the infrastructure or resources to put on large events.  

 

GZ built it and "they came". Or am I looking at it wrong?

[BigStew]

Just now, Seth_K said:

 

GZ built it and "they came". Or am I looking at it wrong?

pretty much but missing the fact that have been operating for years and it took years to get this big and will cost thousands to put on.

[clumpyedge]

10 hours ago, Seth_K said:

Is NAE the only one?

 

If so, why?

 

With on 175 acres of play space, have no other locations been tried in past events?

 

Is NAE the only one? Yes unless you count AI500 (a lot less players) or Stirling England vs. Scotland (milsim, again with a lot less players)

 

If so, why? Because large events like NAE for playing are absolute shit

 

With on 175 acres of play space, have no other locations been tried in past events? No, as @Druid799 said they have the infrastructure to pull it off (in the loosest of terms) plus everyone knows events like NAE are pretty much just an excuse for players to go somewhere and socialize/get off their face for the weekend as you cant call what happens there a game.

 

 

Guessing you missed this as well - https://airsoft-forums.uk/topic/44203-north-v-south-airsoft-festival-2019/

[Druid799]

13 hours ago, Seth_K said:

19 years! Ye gods, is Airsoft that... unchanging.

Well there’s not a lot you can change really , you’ve got a fake gun that fires plastic BBs by the use of compressed air or gas and you shoot it at another person who’s doing the same to you to try and eliminate each other from a roaming game ?

Bit difficult to change the format one would think ? 😉

[Seth_Erebor]

Just now, Druid799 said:

Well there’s not a lot you can change really , you’ve got a fake gun that fires plastic BBs by the use of compressed air or gas and you shoot it at another person who’s doing the same to you to try and eliminate each other from a roaming game ?

Bit difficult to change the format one would think ? 😉

 

Um well, er, hmm... you’re probably right. 

[Encore]

Having been to NAE this year. I can agree with the above sentiment. 2000+ players for a 175 acre site is actually too many. Objectives were mostly trench warfare with little movement for most the day. 

 

It wasn't so much skill that won a team an objective as much as it was how many players from each team at the objective decided to go else where or do something else and thus led to a numbers disadvantage/advantage. 

 

Don't get me wrong, it's lots of fun but you don't go to NAE to "win" as you might at a skirmish game or more likely at a milsim. 

 

I for one would be more interested in smaller games (average skirmish day to a few hundred players like a popular milsim perhaps) at unique and interesting sites/AO's. Airsoft at an abandoned/closed airport or at a powerplant site etc.

 

The dream would be to find a billionaire and get them into the hobby, have them buy a sizeable private island and build small villages and maybe a small town on it. Nobody's using Guernsey right? 😂

 

 

[E21A]

2 minutes ago, Encore said:

 

 

The dream would be to find a billionaire and get them into the hobby, have them buy a sizeable private island and build small villages and maybe a small town on it. Nobody's using Guernsey right? 😂

 

 

 

Such a thing does (or did) exist. An island of the coast of Croatia 

[Encore]

12 minutes ago, E21A said:

 

Such a thing does (or did) exist. An island of the coast of Croatia 

 

 

Aye. I heard of it but I want something more local because I'm a poor student and I've got no clue with how to travel with Airsoft rifles and frankly with my complexion, I wouldn't really want to try either. It'd be one misunderstanding from turning into a shit show, sadly. 

[Seth_Erebor]

1 minute ago, Encore said:

 

 

Aye. I heard of it but I want something more local because I'm a poor student and I've got no clue with how to travel with Airsoft rifles and frankly with my complexion, I wouldn't really want to try either. It's be one misunderstanding from turning into a shit show, sadly. 

You and me both.

 

6 minutes ago, Encore said:

I for one would be more interested in smaller games (average skirmish day to a few hundred players like a popular milsim perhaps) at unique and interesting sites/AO's. Airsoft at an abandoned/closed airport or at a powerplant site etc.

 

The dream would be to find a billionaire and get them into the hobby... 👀

 

 

1

 

Exactly what I'd like too, bud! Give me 2000 acres, a whole load of compounds, gulleys, patches of woodland, tall grass, hills, tunnels, real objectives, proper command structure, fire support and I'll be a happy Airsofter. 

[Encore]

5 minutes ago, Seth_K said:

You and me both.

 

 

Exactly what I'd like too, bud! Give me 2000 acres, a whole load of compounds, gulleys, patches of woodland, tall grass, hills, tunnels, real objectives, proper command structure, fire support and I'll be a happy Airsofter. 

 

That'd be the dream! 

[Seth_Erebor]

1 minute ago, Encore said:

 

That'd be the dream! 

 

How much would you pay for that? Asking for a friend

[Encore]

Depends. How often would the games be running over the course of a year and how long would a "game session" last? Multiday Weekender? I'd pay around what NAE costs depending now just how big the AO was and how good it was. Multiday game over 3 days and some nights 100+ easily. If it's once a year then I could pay more provided I had ample notice for game dates to plan and save around. 

 

Running every weekend as a continuous on going game scenario? £30-40 would be reasonable and affordable enough that I'd play more than once a few months. At that price range I'd personally go twice a month at least. 

 

With more disposalable income in the future, time allowing I'd be down most weekends. 

 

For something like that, I suspect the key point would be hitting a critical mass of players to make the game site financially viable. 

[Seth_Erebor]

Just now, Encore said:

Depends. How often would the games be running over the course of a year and how long would a "game session" last? Multiday Weekender? I'd pay around what NAE costs depending now just how big the AO was and how good it was. Multiday game over 3 days and some nights 100+ easily. If it's once a year then I could pay more provided I had ample notice for game dates to plan and save around. 

 

Running every weekend as a continuous on going game scenario? £30-40 would be reasonable and affordable enough that I'd play more than once a few months. At that price range I'd personally go twice a month at least. 

 

With more disposalable income in the future, time allowing I'd be down most weekends. 

 

For something like that, I suspect the key point would be hitting a critical mass of players to make the game site financially viable. 

 

Hmm, I'd fancy a 48hr weekender, Sat morning to Sun evening. That would cover those who can only make one day and those who want to play night ops.

 

£35 then 

 

How would you get that critical mass? Let the experience do the work for you?

[Encore]

Best strategy would be to develop a field over time. Buy/rent land and build a good quality skirmish site and get good marshals to help build a good reputation. Then as finances allow, grow and expand the size of the site. 

 

I'd do it so each expansion was its own stand alone game field. E.G you could play a skirmish game on that one field and it's still be a good he field. But do so that when you combine all the fields into one big site. It's flows and plays well as a whole. 

 

The advantage doing to this was would be you could have a small core team of marshals on staff to run skirmish days every weekend and you'd just rotate between game fields each day/weekend. 

 

Then for big events were you use multiple or even all the game sites. You can hire in marshals and game leads for just those events instead of having them on staff all year round.

 

Would help keep finances reasonable since you can charge more for the large events (100+) for help pay for the extra staff etc and then the rest of the time. Your just a normal skirmish site with average skirmish prices (£20-30 per game day) with lots of game fields to choose from.

[Seth_Erebor]

Sounds like a plan, but there isn't anything like that out there, that I know of.

[Tommikka]

It depends on what you consider to be a 'large event'.

 

The way I have seen airsoft is as a form of 'scenario walkon'

I began playing paintball just in time for the hey day of scenario paintball with events typically being run by players for players at their local site, these were generally one scenario event per month at various parts of the UK, these varied in scale and there were a very few 'big games'

For the past few years things contracted in size.  There was an organiser that tried to monopolise and take over the world, but went from well run games to overly hyped games, and with the recession people began to be more careful with how they spent their disposable income, most likely to be playing walk-ons locally and only travel to whats really worth it.

 

There are special cases such as hiring active Army training sites, that is novel at first but still needs a good quality organiser capable of keeping it fresh (let alone be able to take the financial risk of booking such a site and hoping people turn up or that you don't have your booking cancelled for Defence priorities)

We have had great paintball events on such sites, but other than Swynnerton have only been able to do so with specialist clear paint, and these sites are 'easier' to book for airsoft as the mess just needs to be swept away rather than cleaned away.

 

 

There two paintball big games that now also run airsoft alongside.  Paintfest / airfest by NPF and North Vs South by Warped.

 

They are well established organisers with Paintfest having run for 10 years.  The site NPF ran the first Hyperball tournament in the world in 1996, and the owner Ged Green has been running things since paintball came to the UK in the mid 80s.  He is also responsible for how modern tournament paintball is run having taught the Americans how to do it at Huntingdon Beach in 2003.

They have had airsoft on site for many years and added airfest alongside Paintfest two years ago.

 

 

 

Warped have been running North vs South at Swynnerton since approx 2008/2009?, and elsewhere for years before.

To run paintball on an Army site though Swynnerton is more 'rough' a training area than Copehill etc they have to take over the site in advance to set up and keep on site during the week after to fully clean up.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm one of those people who looked at other organisers and thought that I could do that too.  It's far from easy, and we run events in other peoples sites, and collaborated with other organisers.  We have run large and small games - hundreds of people and 6 to 8 people (the 6-8 were 'special experiences' with one-to-one.

There are people that I would trust and wouldn't trust to run different types and scales of events (and there are things that I would not be happy about committing us to do)

I've seen events go horribly wrong, with the ways those were managed being handled very differently.   One event destroyed a brand new group of organisers, their team and friendships.  A lot of money disappeared.  With pure luck there were no injuries resulting to very dangerous circumstances

 

 

38 minutes ago, Encore said:

........

Then for big events were you use multiple or even all the game sites. You can hire in marshals and game leads for just those events instead of having them on staff all year round.

.....

This is a pretty spot on description of scenario paintball events.

The other issue is that 'normal marshals' may not be able to manage large rolling games as opposed to standard short games/skirmishes.   But that comes with experience.

 

We have run most of our games opening up the entire site, which changes the dynamics of a sites designed game zones, and often used site staff as the 'safety marshalls' and ourselves as 'event marshalls'

[Druid799]

1 hour ago, Encore said:

Having been to NAE this year. I can agree with the above sentiment. 2000+ players for a 175 acre site is actually too many. Objectives were mostly trench warfare with little movement for most the day. 

It wasn't so much skill that won a team an objective as much as it was how many players from each team at the objective decided to go else where or do something else and thus led to a numbers disadvantage/advantage. 

Don't get me wrong, it's lots of fun but you don't go to NAE to "win" as you might at a skirmish game or more likely at a milsim. 

Thing is if your willing to say “f**k the team game plan I’m doing my own thing !” As me and my mate do every year then you can have a much better experience , example; last yr totally agree with you about the numbers it was like Waterloo at times you just had masses of players throwing them selves at heavily defended bases and getting wiped out by the truck load , BUT simply back track 60-70mtrs move parallel to the battle and come at them from a different direction and they didn’t have a scooby what was happening ! As at most scurmish days most players are totally focused on the 80 degree’s field of vision (same as a game on a tv screen) in front of them and TOTALLY oblivious to the other 280 degree’s of vision all around them ! So we just moved around the sides and rear of the big battles picking players off left right and center! Was funny as hell 😂😂

But yea you don’t go there to have a ‘tactical’ experience , I go there to decompress from the real world have a good laugh with my best mate and to shift some unwanted guns’n’gear and see what bargains I can pick up as well .😉

[Seth_Erebor]

49 minutes ago, Tommikka said:

It depends on what you consider to be a 'large event'.

 

The way I have seen airsoft is as a form of 'scenario walkon'

I began playing paintball just in time for the hey day of scenario paintball with events typically being run by players for players at their local site, these were generally one scenario event per month at various parts of the UK, these varied in scale and there were a very few 'big games'

For the past few years things contracted in size.  There was an organiser that tried to monopolise and take over the world, but went from well run games to overly hyped games, and with the recession people began to be more careful with how they spent their disposable income, most likely to be playing walk-ons locally and only travel to whats really worth it.

 

There are special cases such as hiring active Army training sites, that is novel at first but still needs a good quality organiser capable of keeping it fresh (let alone be able to take the financial risk of booking such a site and hoping people turn up or that you don't have your booking cancelled for Defence priorities)

We have had great paintball events on such sites, but other than Swynnerton have only been able to do so with specialist clear paint, and these sites are 'easier' to book for airsoft as the mess just needs to be swept away rather than cleaned away.

 

 

There two paintball big games that now also run airsoft alongside.  Paintfest / airfest by NPF and North Vs South by Warped.

 

They are well established organisers with Paintfest having run for 10 years.  The site NPF ran the first Hyperball tournament in the world in 1996, and the owner Ged Green has been running things since paintball came to the UK in the mid 80s.  He is also responsible for how modern tournament paintball is run having taught the Americans how to do it at Huntingdon Beach in 2003.

They have had airsoft on site for many years and added airfest alongside Paintfest two years ago.

 

 

 

Warped have been running North vs South at Swynnerton since approx 2008/2009?, and elsewhere for years before.

To run paintball on an Army site though Swynnerton is more 'rough' a training area than Copehill etc they have to take over the site in advance to set up and keep on site during the week after to fully clean up.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm one of those people who looked at other organisers and thought that I could do that too.  It's far from easy, and we run events in other peoples sites, and collaborated with other organisers.  We have run large and small games - hundreds of people and 6 to 8 people (the 6-8 were 'special experiences' with one-to-one.

There are people that I would trust and wouldn't trust to run different types and scales of events (and there are things that I would not be happy about committing us to do)

I've seen events go horribly wrong, with the ways those were managed being handled very differently.   One event destroyed a brand new group of organisers, their team and friendships.  A lot of money disappeared.  With pure luck there were no injuries resulting to very dangerous circumstances

 

 

This is a pretty spot on description of scenario paintball events.

The other issue is that 'normal marshals' may not be able to manage large rolling games as opposed to standard short games/skirmishes.   But that comes with experience.

 

We have run most of our games opening up the entire site, which changes the dynamics of a sites designed game zones, and often used site staff as the 'safety marshalls' and ourselves as 'event marshalls'

 

51 minutes ago, Tommikka said:

It depends on what you consider to be a 'large event'.

 

The way I have seen airsoft is as a form of 'scenario walkon'

I began playing paintball just in time for the hey day of scenario paintball with events typically being run by players for players at their local site, these were generally one scenario event per month at various parts of the UK, these varied in scale and there were a very few 'big games'

For the past few years things contracted in size.  There was an organiser that tried to monopolise and take over the world, but went from well run games to overly hyped games, and with the recession people began to be more careful with how they spent their disposable income, most likely to be playing walk-ons locally and only travel to whats really worth it.

 

There are special cases such as hiring active Army training sites, that is novel at first but still needs a good quality organiser capable of keeping it fresh (let alone be able to take the financial risk of booking such a site and hoping people turn up or that you don't have your booking cancelled for Defence priorities)

We have had great paintball events on such sites, but other than Swynnerton have only been able to do so with specialist clear paint, and these sites are 'easier' to book for airsoft as the mess just needs to be swept away rather than cleaned away.

 

 

There two paintball big games that now also run airsoft alongside.  Paintfest / airfest by NPF and North Vs South by Warped.

 

They are well established organisers with Paintfest having run for 10 years.  The site NPF ran the first Hyperball tournament in the world in 1996, and the owner Ged Green has been running things since paintball came to the UK in the mid 80s.  He is also responsible for how modern tournament paintball is run having taught the Americans how to do it at Huntingdon Beach in 2003.

They have had airsoft on site for many years and added airfest alongside Paintfest two years ago.

 

 

 

Warped have been running North vs South at Swynnerton since approx 2008/2009?, and elsewhere for years before.

To run paintball on an Army site though Swynnerton is more 'rough' a training area than Copehill etc they have to take over the site in advance to set up and keep on site during the week after to fully clean up.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm one of those people who looked at other organisers and thought that I could do that too.  It's far from easy, and we run events in other peoples sites, and collaborated with other organisers.  We have run large and small games - hundreds of people and 6 to 8 people (the 6-8 were 'special experiences' with one-to-one.

There are people that I would trust and wouldn't trust to run different types and scales of events (and there are things that I would not be happy about committing us to do)

I've seen events go horribly wrong, with the ways those were managed being handled very differently.   One event destroyed a brand new group of organisers, their team and friendships.  A lot of money disappeared.  With pure luck there were no injuries resulting to very dangerous circumstances

 

 

This is a pretty spot on description of scenario paintball events.

The other issue is that 'normal marshals' may not be able to manage large rolling games as opposed to standard short games/skirmishes.   But that comes with experience.

 

We have run most of our games opening up the entire site, which changes the dynamics of a sites designed game zones, and often used site staff as the 'safety marshalls' and ourselves as 'event marshalls'

 

All good points, have you ever seen Time Commanders? Good show, the latest season is very good, although opinion is divided.

I'd like to see something like that, I'm a true believer that players just need nudging in the right direction to make their own experience better.

What that means is that I'd rather see you have an extra tool to use then artificially put an obstacle in your way, use it or don't.

 

So when I look at an event the organisation should almost not be seen, blah blah Seth's ramblings, etc

 

Um, yeah, so Time Commanders, two teams in their own Ops Room directing a battle, cool concept.

30 minutes ago, Druid799 said:

Thing is if your willing to say “f**k the team game plan I’m doing my own thing !” As me and my mate do every year then you can have a much better experience , example; last yr totally agree with you about the numbers it was like Waterloo at times you just had masses of players throwing them selves at heavily defended bases and getting wiped out by the truck load , BUT simply back track 60-70mtrs move parallel to the battle and come at them from a different direction and they didn’t have a scooby what was happening ! As at most scurmish days most players are totally focused on the 80 degree’s field of vision (same as a game on a tv screen) in front of them and TOTALLY oblivious to the other 280 degree’s of vision all around them ! So we just moved around the sides and rear of the big battles picking players off left right and center! Was funny as hell 😂😂

But yea you don’t go there to have a ‘tactical’ experience , I go there to decompress from the real world have a good laugh with my best mate and to shift some unwanted guns’n’gear and see what bargains I can pick up as well .😉

 

That is typical of a large force with no CoC, as I said above if they have the tools then it's up to them to either be a useless ramble or proper oper8tors.

I might sound like I only want an uber milsim experience, but fun is always paramount. 

[Druid799]

1 hour ago, Seth_K said:

That is typical of a large force with no CoC, as I said above if they have the tools then it's up to them to either be a useless ramble or proper oper8tors.

This is spot on mate BUT as I always bang on (and always will until proven different) it’s unachievable In airsoft and never will be achievable as long as beer tokens change hands to play , no matter how ‘mil-sim’ an event is and how realistic the command structure is it’ll never truly work because if A player has paid X amount of money to attend an event and there  ‘team leader’ say “you go over there sit in that bush and guard the rear of our base” you know very well the player who’s been told to basically sit on his arse all day and probably do F**k all all is going to turn round and more than likely tell the ‘commander’  “f**k that shit I haven’t paid £80 to sit on my arse and do nothing all day !” And to be fair I wouldn’t blame them either ! In the real world not everyone is a door kicker BUT when your paying good money to take part in an event everyone does want to be a door kicker so it just won’t work . 

Example ; again last year NAE a guy called Woodie is team leader for the others on more than one occasion I saw him tell players to go to point XYZ on the site to do this’n’that and I heard more than few head off muttering about “Bollox to that I’m going to ABC he can shove his XYZ !” 

[clumpyedge]

11 hours ago, Encore said:

Best strategy would be to develop a field over time. Buy/rent land and build a good quality skirmish site and get good marshals to help build a good reputation. Then as finances allow, grow and expand the size of the site. 

 

I'd do it so each expansion was its own stand alone game field. E.G you could play a skirmish game on that one field and it's still be a good he field. But do so that when you combine all the fields into one big site. It's flows and plays well as a whole. 

 

The advantage doing to this was would be you could have a small core team of marshals on staff to run skirmish days every weekend and you'd just rotate between game fields each day/weekend. 

 

Then for big events were you use multiple or even all the game sites. You can hire in marshals and game leads for just those events instead of having them on staff all year round.

 

Would help keep finances reasonable since you can charge more for the large events (100+) for help pay for the extra staff etc and then the rest of the time. Your just a normal skirmish site with average skirmish prices (£20-30 per game day) with lots of game fields to choose from.

 

Have a look at combat airsoft Thetford, they do skirmish days or themed days and they open up the site to accommodate the game scenario much like you are talking about and they have an excellent marshaling team and player base (I don't work for them but I have enjoyed every single game I've played there on either big or small fields)

 

10 hours ago, Tommikka said:

There are special cases such as hiring active Army training sites, that is novel at first but still needs a good quality organiser capable of keeping it fresh (let alone be able to take the financial risk of booking such a site and hoping people turn up or that you don't have your booking cancelled for Defence priorities)

We have had great paintball events on such sites, but other than Swynnerton have only been able to do so with specialist clear paint, and these sites are 'easier' to book for airsoft as the mess just needs to be swept away rather than cleaned away.

 

Having been a promoter at my local venue for a number of years taking a punt on bigger bands and getting bums in seats as they say certainly does make you bum pucker when booking starts or doors open for the event. that's where IMO starting small is always the best course of action build up your customer base and show what you can do and that should in theory draw in the numbers and the collateral to book larger events. I say this but there have been one or two airsoft organizers that have got this very wrong and having being told the bookings were in the stages of almost being sold out I turned up to one event (after an hour or so drive) to be told the game had cancelled because people failed to show.

 

7 hours ago, Druid799 said:

This is spot on mate BUT as I always bang on (and always will until proven different) it’s unachievable In airsoft and never will be achievable as long as beer tokens change hands to play , no matter how ‘mil-sim’ an event is and how realistic the command structure is it’ll never truly work because if A player has paid X amount of money to attend an event and there  ‘team leader’ say “you go over there sit in that bush and guard the rear of our base” you know very well the player who’s been told to basically sit on his arse all day and probably do F**k all all is going to turn round and more than likely tell the ‘commander’  “f**k that shit I haven’t paid £80 to sit on my arse and do nothing all day !” And to be fair I wouldn’t blame them either ! In the real world not everyone is a door kicker BUT when your paying good money to take part in an event everyone does want to be a door kicker so it just won’t work . 

Example ; again last year NAE a guy called Woodie is team leader for the others on more than one occasion I saw him tell players to go to point XYZ on the site to do this’n’that and I heard more than few head off muttering about “Bollox to that I’m going to ABC he can shove his XYZ !” 

 

I paid to sit in a building majority of a weekend on overwatch and didn't fire my gun once but I guess like I think your'e saying you need to have the players with the right mind set for that type of game. I've said it numerous times before airsoft isn't just about shooting guns for some people/games sometimes its about immersing yourself in a story or a role (yes even at a skirmish to some extent!) and playing that role to the best of your ability (not just at milsims) which again in my opinion adds a whole other side to the game which for the vast majority is outside the remit of turn up, shoot, go home.

[Tommikka]

7 hours ago, Druid799 said:

..,,, , no matter how ‘mil-sim’ an event is and how realistic the command structure is it’ll never truly work  .......,,

 

Everyone has their own definition of milsim.  From playing in the woods to fully orchestrated door kicking.  That means games  have to cater for everyone, and players have to recognise people are different 

7 hours ago, Druid799 said:

Example ; again last year NAE a guy called Woodie is team leader for the others on more than one occasion I saw him tell players to go to point XYZ on the site to do this’n’that and I heard more than few head off muttering about “Bollox to that I’m going to ABC he can shove his XYZ !” 

I can see 3 people who are/could be at fault, (I don’t know the specifics of the example so now it’s Commander Billy at an ABC event.....)

 

 

Its the players fault.  Don’t walk off muttering to yourself that you won’t do the task you just accepted, let the commander know what type of thing you want to do - or that you don’t want to be sent to do anything, you’re just interested in wandering around and finding your kind of action

 

It’s commander Billy’s fault.  Leading is not about bossing people about, plan for different players and ask what they are after - do they want a sneaky mission, a fire fight, to be told what’s going on generally or to be told nothing, then they can do their own thing and you can allocate tasks to those who will want them

 

Its ABC events fault - They need to understand their customer 

A ‘big game’ or Scenario is not about opening up the whole of a skirmish site and putting more players onto it.  Standard mini games can’t just be scaled up.

The worst case is one big battle with a front line that may be nearer to one side of the field than the other.  Plan to have firefights, objectives that must be gained at one point but don’t have to be defended / held forever (eg award points for capture or holding at set time points, then have different objectives at different times in different places)

Keep game flow moving - but do make sure there are good firefight opportunities 

Have multiple objectives - whether at set times or things to find / do at any time (ideally both)

The Commander can set some plans, can hand out missions to fit the players looking for missions.  Specific objects can be searched for by scavengers or secret missions behind enemy lines -  to gain an advantage or build a super weapon. General objects can be collected by anyone who spots them, this can be just plastice bottles with coloured ‘toxic chemical’ water etc and is a balance for anyone who just wants to wander around shooting people, they can pick it up or ignore it.  Have them sent back to base etc - players can hand them to others heading back if they are super ninjas that never get eliminated.  Pile them up at base camp, then have Marshall’s count and put them back in field to be found again

 

 

 

For Scenario paintball I can construct a game design around a site, select from my various rule sets (and make up a couple of new rules to try out), and plan how to manipulate the game. *

For Airsoft it’s a different matter.  There are similarities but also differences, I don’t know the player mindset enough, I’ll leave that to others who are out there enough to have an idea what is and isn’t going to work for airsofters opening their wallet to play

 

* I think I can still do that!!!  We haven’t run a full scenario for a few years  and are going to go back to a ‘basic’ classic scenario one day game this year.  Ask me in October how that turns out!