Daytona gun questions

[Encore]

Been reading up and doing research on Daytona guns and people here seem to know details about Daytona guns from first hand experience with them.

 

I'm really interested in doing/getting a daytona WE MSK but have a few questions:

 

1. Is there any support or service centres/people for Daytona guns in the UK?
2. Is Getsome 1000 a special lubricant or just the only one validated with Daytona kits?
3. Would the it be worth having the MSK kit installed professionally and if so does anyone/where offer that service in the UK

 

So from my understanding, the MSK kit is a drop in kit with very little work being needed to be done to the body. However, I live in student accommodation (I'm a PhD student) so I don't really have the space to do any serious work outside just general maintenance, hence why I'm asking about support/service centres or techs who can do the job.

 

Secondly, Getsome 1000 seems to just be a branded high performance lubricant, surely equivalent alternatives would work just as well?

 

[proffrink]

1. Not that I really know of specially for DG, but there are a number of us using them here now and the international Facebook group used to be pretty excellent when I still used it

2. GetSome is still the go-to for most but the EU it's only really possible to get it from HPAirsoft I believe (and it's expensive to the point that it's worth buying from the US if you're getting more than ~2 bottles). I would just import 4 dropper bottles and a needle bottle from the US if you import your kit. That will leave you set for years.

3. Depends on your experience but I doubt you'll find a place in the UK. Your best bet may be HPAirsoft in Poland or importing a complete kit from Blackblitz. You're mostly on your own in the UK when it comes to tooling unfortunately.

 

There are equivalents for GetSome that some people use. I just use it because I've never had an issue and it's one less thing to worry about on what it already a very expensive gun. Cutting the cost of the lube down just doesn't justify the hassle to me. Again the Facebook group might be able to provide an answer for you as I know for a fact that there are people in continental Europe using alternatives. When it comes to lubricants like the one DG uses the viscosity plays a big part but also how inert it is as it's coming into contact with aluminium, brass, plastics and tool steel all the same gun and reasonably fearsomely. Certainly you can't use typical airsoft greases but as GetSome is made for outdoor sporting goods (fishing rods, bikes and the like) there are some alternatives that fit that same profile.

[Encore]

Okay so another question.

 

Aside from the extra number of shots I'd get from a 4500 psi tank vs a 3000 psi, are their any other advantages to the 4.5k tank?

 

Also does anyone have any experience with how air hungry a daytona MSK kit is?

[proffrink]

Get a 4500 for sure. All DGs are air hungry and 4500 makes a significant difference.

 

Also remember that if you want to use a dive tank and fill station with a 4500psi shot tank that you'll need a 300bar one (not the usual 232bar).

[Encore]

Probably be awhile before I get a dive tank and fill station, fortunately got a site near my that does refills for free if I'm playing or for £1 if I'm not. 

 

[proffrink]

That's good then. A 60ci 4500psi tank should last all day anyway if you don't spam too much.

[Encore]

Trying to research regulators, I've been told multiple times the redline SFR is the go too for daytona guns but the storm and polarstar MR both seem to have the exact same specs in terms of pressure range and fast refresh rate etc. Is there anything that makes the redline SFR stand out above the others?

 

Thanks

[Tommikka]

On 06/09/2018 at 11:01, Encore said:

Okay so another question.

 

Aside from the extra number of shots I'd get from a 4500 psi tank vs a 3000 psi, are their any other advantages to the 4.5k tank?

 

Also does anyone have any experience with how air hungry a daytona MSK kit is?

On a like for like basis a 4500psi cylinder (using rough calculations):

can hold an extra 50% air due to the extra pressure 

A fibre cylinder has a thin wall of aluminium wrapped by carbon fibre, so is lighter than an aluminium cylinder of the same capacity

 

However a ‘standard’ 4500psi cylinder is larger than a standard aluminium 3000psi cylinder, which means you get more capacity, but also tends to closen up the weights

 

An ‘ultralight’ type of fibre cylinder is much lighter than an aluminium cylinder

 

Mostly irrelevant for airsoft, but an aluminium typically has a flat base and a fibre has a curved base.  This means if you have it attached to the gun Paintball style it can be used as a stock that rolls in your shoulder

 

 

£ for air capacity, multiple aluminium 3000psi air cylinders are cheaper than fibre wrapped 4500psi cylinders 

Aluminium cylinders are hardy and can be bashed around.  Scratched paint does not affect the cylinder

Fibre wrapped cylinders are safe enough to bash about a bit, but scratches that go beyond the finish and potentially get to the fibre can mean hydro test failure or the air man refusing fills 

 

(Prices below exclude low pressure airsoft regulators) 

Fibre Cylinders should be considered an investment over time costing about £150 to buy and maybe £25 / £30 to hydro test - in the region of £200 over 15 year lifetime.  Ultralites obviously cost more

Aluminium cylinders can cost about £30 and have up to 10 years between hydro tests (but may only be accepted by some sites for 5 years).  It’s not usually financially viable or worth the effort but can be used forever as long as they pass hydro tests

Thats £13.50 per year for a fibre and £3 to £6 per year for an aluminium

 

There are many combinations of length & thickness of fibre cylinders and also a new ISO standard that can allow certain fibre designs to be used forever subject to hydrotesting 

Low capacity aluminium cylinders such as 13ci are exempt from hydrotesting, but won’t last long on an air hungry gun

[proffrink]

Don't use 13ci on a DG. Less than useless and many have tried. You won't find many people not using 4500ci tanks within the DG community.

[Encore]

Do I still need to have got SFR modded to have a standard (non QD) fitting on its end or would I get away with QD's at both ends of my air line if they are both EU widebores?

 

Also can someone recommend some places I can get tanks from and brands in the UK? I can find sites etc but I've no clue if the brand's they have are any good (read are the include brand regs any good). 

 

Thanks! 

[Encore]

So just a quick update to provide some info to the community. 

 

First off, I'm running a MSK daytona engine with an amped airsoft daytona IGL. 

 

I'm running the MSK with a wolverine storm regulator and a 48ci 3k tippmann bottle with the included bottle reg. Works great, has a fast refresh rate so no problems with that. 

 

More importantly, I'm using a standard (US) dual QD air line. I.E QD connection to the reg and to the rif.

 

The MSK cycles and shoots just fine even at 80 PSI, which is what I run it at.

 

This gives me ~313 fps on 0.2 BB's.

 

Hope this helps, I find a lot of info on the daytona systems is from when they first hit the scene and no one has really taken the time to verify the statements made. E.G dual QD will not work. This maybe true for some versions but I can say with emperical evidence that the MSK kit works just fine.  

[proffrink]

Dual QD is mostly for LMGs and/or US site limits (a gun hitting 400+ ft/s on a .20 is of course going to use more air than one on a UK site), but given that most people set up their reg with future builds in mind it's usually preferential to just use the single QD. Not sure I'd go double QD anyway as a wider bore will give you a more consistent refresh rate at higher ROFs, but it's good to know that it works well for the MSK. It's worth bearing in mind that most info for the DG actually comes from US users and there are a lot of people in colder, northern European countries who're active on the FB page. The UK - where site limits are particularly low compared to these places - are the minority.

 

Also my contention was never that a 3K bottle wouldn't work - only that you'll burn through it faster than you might like. DGs need a lot of air, but of course that mileage depends massively on how much you shoot.

 

I'm assuming you've not tried short stroking yours or using the heavier spring yet?

[Encore]

No, I haven't short stroked it and I'm not using the heavier spring. I'm holding off on mods until I've got a good feel for what the base system is like. 

 

Thinking about getting the low power airshaft.

 

Also I've come across another DG use who uses dual QD (EU) spec. He's said that his Daytona shoots just fine using EU spec QD's and a widebore line. 

 

The part about the 3k tank is just so people know that the bottle reg on the tippman is good enough for Daytona's here at UK limits. I alot of people switch to ninja V2 pro bottle regs etc. 

 

 

[SeniorSpaz87]

So I own 4 Daytonas (well, technically three and their grandfather, an Escort), including an MSK. My VFC M27 IAR and A&K M60A3VN I installed, and the MSK is the only one of the three I didnt install myself (Escorts came installed). I use a variety of tanks as I run everything from tapped GBB pistols to my BOLT VSR10 to PolarStars, v12s, and Daytonas, but usually we use Ninja 4500s. As stated above, 3000s will work, but I would personally only use them if the sites I played at all had cheap and plentyful air fills. Heck - if your site does fills for cheap enough you could run around with a baby 3000 like my VSR tank and just keep filling it. We go with 4500s due to us doing a lot of MilSims where we could be a 8km hike from the fill station, so we will take the slight weight trade in order to keep in play.

 

I actually havent used any of those regs before -  Ive used Amped regs, valken regs, and a Ballystik reg with no problems. 

 

GetSome is good lube, but its not the only thing you can use. Ive used the gun lube we have here during breaking in my M60 (only started that like a week ago).

 

Just remember your break-in period. It can be difficult to find places to do that if you live in student housing - I had to drive like an hour away to break in all my guns. Made forgetting a part suck.

[Seth_Erebor]

Who is the current go to DG guy in the UK?

[clumpyedge]

15 hours ago, Seth_K said:

Who is the current go to DG guy in the UK?

 

I thought the kits were like hens teeth over here (or is that just the 249 kits)

[proffrink]

There isn't one. HPAirsoft is the EU supplier when I last checked, otherwise you need to import from Canada (BlackBlitz).

[Seth_Erebor]

4 hours ago, clumpyedge said:

 

I thought the kits were like hens teeth over here (or is that just the 249 kits)

 

Well you only need a CNC machine to make them, right? 

 

1 hour ago, proffrink said:

There isn't one. HPAirsoft is the EU supplier when I last checked, otherwise you need to import from Canada (BlackBlitz).

 

Not to buy, a tech. I can't remember his name.

[proffrink]

Not heard of a reputable one in the UK, no.

[Seth_Erebor]

32 minutes ago, proffrink said:

Not heard of a reputable one in the UK, no.

 

Wow, ok. Europe then? HPA Airsoft you mentioned. 

[proffrink]

HPAirsoft are the current ones. I believe there was a chap in Denmark doing stuff but he closed down. Nordic countries seem to be fairly active with DG stuff as it's so cold that HPA is really the only option vs. GBBRs.

 

I would ask this in the DG Facebook group though. It's too niche for here unfortunately

[Seth_Erebor]

1 hour ago, proffrink said:

HPAirsoft are the current ones. I believe there was a chap in Denmark doing stuff but he closed down. Nordic countries seem to be fairly active with DG stuff as it's so cold that HPA is really the only option vs. GBBRs.

 

I would ask this in the DG Facebook group though. It's too niche for here unfortunately

 

Thanks! I'll head over there.