DMR Options

[AshOnSnow]

I want to buy my first primary weapon - I've played a few games with some different hire guns - G36C, M4, MP5K, AK47 etc. and I've always found myself falling into a DMR support role, but never having the sufficient range and accuracy to be as effective as I need to. So I figured, for my first primary, I need to buy something that comes into the DMR type weapon. I'm looking for advice and direction on base models, upgrade options if necessary. It may be that there's a rifle that fits the bill perfectly already. To start things off, here are a few things I want:

 

- AR10/AR15 platform

- Semi Automatic

- Adjustable stock

- 0.30g @ 360-390fps (0.20 @ 440-475)

- Quad Rail

 

I'll probably run it with an ACOG/RDS combo and Bipod/Foregrip combo.

 

Solid build that'll last me years with good care and attention is important.

 

I was looking at the G&G GR25 or Ares SR25.

 

The Ares looks a little out of my price range since I'll be dropping over £150 on optics and other gizmos, it doesn't leave much money wiggle for upgrades.

[Lozart]

http://www.taiwangun.com/en/electric/pj25-carbine-p-j?from=listing&campaign-id=14

[AshOnSnow]

http://www.taiwangun.com/en/electric/pj25-carbine-p-j?from=listing&campaign-id=14

 

Looks promising, quite compact for a DMR.

 

Found this full size counterpart - with a slightly higher energy output too.

 

http://www.taiwangun.com/en/electric-4/pj25-p-j?from=listing&campaign-id=14

 

 

If I were to get it, I'd need to be able to install a 6.03 barrel, and also make it semi only.

[Randymanpipe]

I DMR'd an ICS Par Mk3. Which is great as the ICS comes with a split gear box so you can change the spring easily. If you get the 292 it comes with a really long barrel too.

[AshOnSnow]

the ICS comes with a split gear box so you can change the spring

 

No idea what you just said

[Lozart]

 

No idea what you just said

 

Unlike most normal M4 style V2 gearboxes, the ICS system uses an upper gearbox with the main spring, cylinder and piston in, and a lower gearbox which contains the drive gears and trigger mechanism. It's a very simple thing to do to build up several upper cylinders with different springs for different sites/roles and simply swap them over depending on if you want 350FPS or 440 FPS on the day. Of course, you will get better overall performance if the gears and motor match the performance of the spring but there you have it.

 

As for the PJ25 I linked to, it comes at around 440FPS anyway so yes you could easily swap the barrel out if you should wish to. I'd try it first before you start throwing money on "upgrades" though to make sure you upgrade the bits that NEED doing (which may be none) as opposed to wasting money on things that don't.

[AshOnSnow]

 

Unlike most normal M4 style V2 gearboxes, the ICS system uses an upper gearbox with the main spring, cylinder and piston in, and a lower gearbox which contains the drive gears and trigger mechanism. It's a very simple thing to do to build up several upper cylinders with different springs for different sites/roles and simply swap them over depending on if you want 350FPS or 440 FPS on the day. Of course, you will get better overall performance if the gears and motor match the performance of the spring but there you have it.

 

As for the PJ25 I linked to, it comes at around 440FPS anyway so yes you could easily swap the barrel out if you should wish to. I'd try it first before you start throwing money on "upgrades" though to make sure you upgrade the bits that NEED doing (which may be none) as opposed to wasting money on things that don't.

 

Ah ok. Yeah, I emailed TaiwanGun and they ship it with a 6.08 barrel. I think I would probably fit a 6.03 on it straight away, but that would be the only mod I'd do right at the start. Shame about the model with the longer barrel model having no adjustable stock. Is it tricky to change the stock on something like that? (I would think the hardest part would be battery storage). Apparently about something called a "buffer tube"?

[ImTriggerHappy]

 

Ah ok. Yeah, I emailed TaiwanGun and they ship it with a 6.08 barrel. I think I would probably fit a 6.03 on it straight away, but that would be the only mod I'd do right at the start. Shame about the model with the longer barrel model having no adjustable stock. Is it tricky to change the stock on something like that? (I would think the hardest part would be battery storage)

What do you think you will gain by fitting a 6.03 and what brand of barrel were you planning on buying?

[AshOnSnow]

What do you think you will gain by fitting a 6.03 and what brand of barrel were you planning on buying?

I'm under the impression that a smaller diameter barrel will give a tighter shot grouping. Prometheus seems like a good bet with it comes to brand.

[ImTriggerHappy]

I'm under the impression that a smaller diameter barrel will give a tighter shot grouping. Prometheus seems like a good bet with it comes to brand.

Best barrels I have used for accuracy are 6.23 closely followed by the PDI 6.08 and the 6.05 when lapped out to 6.65ish.

 

Tbb doesn't mean better.

[Lozart]

What do you think you will gain by fitting a 6.03 and what brand of barrel were you planning on buying?

 

 

I'm under the impression that a smaller diameter barrel will give a tighter shot grouping. Prometheus seems like a good bet with it comes to brand.

 

 

This is what I was getting at. Get the gun, try it and then fix the problems if it has any. Don't introduce more issues by trying to fix bits that ain't broke!

 

Most players think that their groupings are shit because they don't have a TBB. More often than not it's because they aren't shooting from a stable position or they're using poor ammo, or their hop is inconsistent. Worth also bearing in mind that a TBB will up your FPS which may become an issue.

[AshOnSnow]

 

 

 

 

This is what I was getting at. Get the gun, try it and then fix the problems if it has any. Don't introduce more issues by trying to fix bits that ain't broke!

 

Most players think that their groupings are sh*t because they don't have a TBB. More often than not it's because they aren't shooting from a stable position or they're using poor ammo, or their hop is inconsistent. Worth also bearing in mind that a TBB will up your FPS which may become an issue.

 

Wouldn't have thought that a "TBB" would up it by 40fps. DMRs on my sites have 500fps limit.

 

Would definitely need to know about the adjustable stock deal before buying it though, because not having an adjustable stock would be a dealbreaker for me.

[Mr Monkey Nuts]

I think you are chasing an imaginary dragon. Take it from someone who has spent way too much time and money trying to build one. They are heavy, cumbersome, over the top and pointless. They are exclusively for willy waving, 40% of players will love it, 60% will think you are an overcompensating knob. And after all of that, the real range difference with a higher FPS is barely noticeable, let alone practicable. The accuracy is identical to any other AEG, they are the same parts and set up. there is nothing you can do to a DMR that can't be done with a normal AEG. Accuracy is 90% user 9% external uncontrollable factors such as wind and 1% the gun.

 

You say you have never had the <quote>range or accuracy to be effective</quote> Unfortunately a DMR will not change that, that is airsoft in a nutshell, everyone is looking for that extra few feet or that extra bit tighter group and as of yet nobody has managed to achieve it.

 

I'm not telling you what to spend your money on, I'm not telling you what you should or should not shoot. But I am suggesting to you that a DMR is not the answer to any problem.

[Sacarathe]

Pay to win, sounds like you need another hobby.

[Lozart]

 

Would definitely need to know about the adjustable stock deal before buying it though, because not having an adjustable stock would be a dealbreaker for me.

The one with the full stock and the suppressor is the same gun as the carbine with adjustable stock. Get the suppressor separately and Bob's your uncle.

[AshOnSnow]

The one with the full stock and the suppressor is the same gun as the carbine with adjustable stock. Get the suppressor separately and Bob's your uncle.

 

The the full one has a 510mm barrel, the carbine has a 350mm barrel

[AshOnSnow]

I think you are chasing an imaginary dragon. Take it from someone who has spent way too much time and money trying to build one. They are heavy, cumbersome, over the top and pointless. They are exclusively for willy waving, 40% of players will love it, 60% will think you are an overcompensating knob. And after all of that, the real range difference with a higher FPS is barely noticeable, let alone practicable. The accuracy is identical to any other AEG, they are the same parts and set up. there is nothing you can do to a DMR that can't be done with a normal AEG. Accuracy is 90% user 9% external uncontrollable factors such as wind and 1% the gun.

 

You say you have never had the <quote>range or accuracy to be effective</quote> Unfortunately a DMR will not change that, that is airsoft in a nutshell, everyone is looking for that extra few feet or that extra bit tighter group and as of yet nobody has managed to achieve it.

 

I'm not telling you what to spend your money on, I'm not telling you what you should or should not shoot. But I am suggesting to you that a DMR is not the answer to any problem.

 

There must be a range difference between a gun that shoots .20s at 310, and .30s at 370 though. That's just science.

 

Otherwise, why would anyone bother buying anything other than a £70 plastic aeg if it performed just as perfectly well as a £500 custom build?

 

[Sacarathe]

 

There must be a range difference between a gun that shoots .20s at 310, and .30s at 370 though. That's just science.

 

Otherwise, why would anyone bother buying anything other than a £70 plastic aeg if it performed just as perfectly well as a £500 custom build?

 

 

Blackpowder balistic trajectories are not remotely relevant to airsoft. What's in your airsoft gun and the ammo used has a much larger influence on range and accuracy than the force applied.

 

Getting good range is as much about replacing substandard parts and tuning existing parts to correct parameters within the gun itself for stability as it is increasing power.

[Mr Monkey Nuts]

DMRs are not a super magical beast you think it will be, and thats before you consider the gains are a huge trade off against the loss of full auto and an imposed MED.

 

You have proven it with your own graph. For accuracy you want a relatively flat trajectory, your graph shows a 16 yard difference. For what you claim is a £430 difference.

[ImTriggerHappy]

 

There must be a range difference between a gun that shoots .20s at 310, and .30s at 370 though. That's just science.

 

Otherwise, why would anyone bother buying anything other than a £70 plastic aeg if it performed just as perfectly well as a £500 custom build?

No you are right the science is very simple so crack on.

[AshOnSnow]

Well it sounds like there's a massive distaste for DMRs here. Why do people bother with them, or snipers for that matter, in that case?

[Monty]

Because DMR's are a waste of money.

[AshOnSnow]

Because DMR's are a waste of money.

 

Are snipers a waste too?

[Monty]

 

Are sniper rifles* a waste too?

 

Yes, to some extent. Limited engagement distance, bolt action so one shot at a time.. But! They're/They can be super quiet, able hit people beyond 70 meters, that's with my rifle anyway. Most money I spent on it was the hop up unit. With AEG's you're replacing the motor, gears, spring, adding a mosfet(?), hop up unit, aoe correcting, replacing the cracked gearbox shell, the list goes on.!

[AshOnSnow]

 

Yes, to some extent. Limited engagement distance, bolt action so one shot at a time.. But! They're/They can be super quiet, able hit people beyond 70 meters, that's with my rifle anyway. Most money I spent on it was the hop up unit. With AEG's you're replacing the motor, gears, spring, adding a mosfet(?), hop up unit, aoe correcting, replacing the cracked gearbox shell, the list goes on.!

 

Now, things like mosfets, cracked gearboxes etc are things unknown to me, so thanks for the info.

 

In that case, what is the best option for someone who wants to take a DMR role, but can't find the equipment to do so? (I've seen videos of "Novritsch" on a VSR sniper with incredible range. Yes, he has military training, so do I, but it's a matter of what's fun at the end of the day. I don't need something that extreme - he evidently has a real natural skill for it, which i may not have. But what I really want is an increased range and accuracy - even if it's just 30m or so - because really, I remember on my first airsoft day, we rushed through the field at Coms Site 3, and got suppressed at the end of our clearing over the grasslands, and then, someone came up with a semi auto sniper - probably an SR25 type weapon if I remember correctly - who took out the attackers and gave us cover to move forward. Sounds simple, but when it's your first airsoft game, it sticks with you.

 

Now, do the sites you play at have the same FPS and engagement rules for Sniper and DMR? Where I do, I can have a semi-auto DMR up to 500fps except for CQB/Indoor at which point I'd use my Sig.