Policing and Crime Bill 2015-16 - This is now (mostly) the law as part of the Policing and Crime Act 2017

[jcheeseright]

I think for the purposes of the law bio BBs will count as plastic.

[Sacarathe]

I'm still a little hung up on the fact the BBs have to be plastic, to me this screams that the new bill was written by someone who doesn't ask many questions before just throwing the law down.

 

What about bio BBs? Are they no longer allowed?

 

And what about heavier weights? I always assumed that to increase the weight of a 6mm ball without actually making it bigger, denser material was added to the mix - i.e. Not plastic. Not fully plastic anyway.

 

I think for the purposes of the law bio BBs will count as plastic.

 

I hope so, I was checking earlier and I can't find what's in them, even on the packaging.

 

But in the OP it states "must contain plastic",

(3) “Small plastic missile” means a missile that—

(a) is made wholly or partly from plastics, and

 

Does seem against bio-bbs.

[MrMcG]

I guess we will have to wait for it to be passed and clarified as it is a bit "vague" in areas

 

And as all my guns are gas I will be installing low power bolts/valves etc

[sp00n]

Call me thick but .... Where dose it say a full auto capable gun above 370 would become a section 5 fire arm??

 

Surely it would instead be classified as an air gun/air rifle? That being subject to the 12lb/ft rules etc

[Sacarathe]

Call me thick but .... Where dose it say a full auto capable gun above 370 would become a section 5 fire arm??

 

Surely it would instead be classified as an air gun/air rifle? That being subject to the 12lb/ft rules etc

 

I think I get it now enough to say: Currently the fully auto airsoft guns are in a grey area, between firearm and airgun, by this legislation clearly stating when an airsoft gun is NOT an airsoft gun it must fall into another category, and for full auto guns there is only one other category. Because Airguns cannot be capable of full auto (I presume).

 

Problem is, by defining airsoft guns, where does that leave anything 'gun like' which is neither airsoft, airgun, firearm?

 

 

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/d_to_g/firearms/#a14

[sp00n]

Ahhhh I see I thought you could get full auto capable air pistols/rifles (I was thinking of the kwa 4.5mm Uzi, but it's semi only)

[GunmanAirsoft]

So basically this piece of legislation is finally putting to rest the age old issue of the lethality threshold for Firearms by setting it in law at 1 Joule.

 

Thankfully an exemption has been made for Airsoft, with limits to be set in law which correspond to what we have been using for some time.

 

It would appear that any 8mm Airsoft gun firing above 1J would be subject to the Firearms act, and as air weapons are only supposed to be powered by compressed air or carbon dioxide, does that then mean that I will need to either surrender my 8mm gas sniper rifle or apply for a slot for it on my section 1 Firearms license?

 

I'd love to see my Firearms enquiry officer try and find a unique serial number on it...

 

Do any full auto 8mm Airsoft guns exist? As it would appear that were this bill to be enacted they would become section 5 prohibited weapons...

 

Also, would the possession of a 6mm steel ball bearing be considered as possession of parts to convert an Airsoft gun to a firearm?

[Sacarathe]

https://www.facebook.com/UKAPU/posts/903486679764303 (15th March 2016)

 

 

On Friday UK Airsoft Players Union, UK Airsoft Retailers Association and Airsoft Trade Body were invited to the Home Office HQ in Westminster to discuss the Police and Crime Bill and the airsoft exception. UKARA also brought along Police Chief Adrian Whiting, whose extensive political and legal experience was very helpful indeed.

All 3 bodies are on the same page and we have very similar concerns with the current draft of the bill which is primarily that;

 

1. 8mm airsoft replicas will not be defined as airsoft.

 

2. Airsoft replicas are defined as a device which can ‘only’ fire plastic BBs.

 

3. Fully automatic airsoft replicas could be defined as ‘readily convertible’ as you can push most of them over 1.3J easily enough.

 

4. Anyone importing or in possession of fully automatic replica that is found to be over 1.3J will be deemed to be in possession of a section 5 firearm (5 year prison sentence for most of us). This is of course very relevant to owners and traders of HPA and GBB models, whose equipment would be tested on the strongest gas pressure available.

 

Although this Bill is designed to clear up firearms law (amongst other things) we are now fully involved with Westminster politics. As such, there are allot of factors in play, such as party politics and also the anti-airsoft lobby (who are in staunch opposition to the airsoft exception). People will be watching what we airsofters say in public over the coming months. So things are pretty complicated and little can be taken at face value.

 

We presented some proposals to Government representatives and (without pre-empting the minutes) very little was accepted or rejected outright. This meeting was really the starting point for the process. What seems clear is that they will hold us to the 1.3J/2.5J recommendations of the ACPO testing. We will have more meetings with them over the next year, and if we present an amendment that the Home Office finds favourable they could present it to Parliament. However, there’s still a fair chance that this won’t happen, but we live in a democracy and the airsoft community may need to write to their MPs and the House of Lords in order to get our amendments sponsored and voted in.

 

If you’ve looked at the PCB you’ll notice that airsoft and lethality make up a very small part of it which is why we won’t be permitted the opportunity to submit evidence to the parliamentary committee.

So what’s the next phase? We need to all agree on the amendments that we are going to push for. We need to collect some more evidence. And we need to bolster the support of the airsoft associations. The only viable option is for us all to work together and be one strong voice asking for the same thing through elected representatives and a well-coordinated lobbying campaign. Anything less will be fruitless. If we fail to clear this Bill up, airsoft players and traders could end up in prison in the future for holding normal airsoft equipment.

 

The Bill is in the committee stage of the House of Commons and the Home Office project it will be enacted in law before the end of the year.

Players should like UKAPUs Facebook page and then we can keep you in the loop.

 

If you are in the airsoft industry you should keep in touch with ATB and UKARA

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1554858821494063/?ref=br_rs
http://www.ukara.org.uk/

Matt Furey-King,
Chair UKAPU

 

There is an ongoing discussion from the UKAPU guys, that any DMR in a AEG body (read Automatic), may be treated legally as the gun it was designed and manufactured as for the purposes of legal testing. Thus if a gun is predominantly made of parts for an automatic replica it cannot be legally considered as semi-auto.

 

Seems, this legislation in its current state might as well be "ban airsoft". Due to the highlighted text above.

[proffrink]

This may be of interest to many of you as it discusses nearly every sticking point that people have expressed concern over in this thread.

 

http://staging.ukapu.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/2016-03-11-Exemption-for-airsoft-HO-meeting-minutes-issuedfk.pdf

[Sacarathe]

This may be of interest to many of you as it discusses nearly every sticking point that people have expressed concern over in this thread.

 

http://staging.ukapu.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/2016-03-11-Exemption-for-airsoft-HO-meeting-minutes-issuedfk.pdf

 

A worthy read, three months old now though, how did you discover this?

[Sacarathe]

https://www.facebook.com/UKAPU/posts/994454737334163

 

/sad

 

 

UK Airsoft Players Union- UKAPU They hope to sell airsoft guns as air rifles, which takes sales from airsoft retailers and gives them to RFDs. Unfortunately it makes a mess of our hobby in the process. Matt

 

From Matt's comments on that thread, though I don't claim to have researched or understand, it seems that if the ammendment went through removing the airsoft exception it would put all the airsoft retailers out of business and make airsoft sales run through licensed firearms dealers - allowing them to profit instead.

[skarra333]

https://www.facebook.com/UKAPU/posts/994454737334163

 

/sad

 

 

From Matt's comments on that thread, though I don't claim to have researched or understand, it seems that if the ammendment went through removing the airsoft exception it would put all the airsoft retailers out of business and make airsoft sales run through licensed firearms dealers - allowing them to profit instead.

 

Looking through stuff - Lords especially (being un-elected as they are) - shouldn't be allowed to just issue requirements on bills with no notes or explanation. Some explanation should be a requirement, so when it is debated, we can see the thinking behind it. I've said it before, I'll say it again - Parliament just doesn't work.

[James1989]

Anyone with that many names should have any sort of say in anything important

[Sacarathe]

Another update.

[BrightCandle]

Another update.

 

Well that is just wonderful. Looks like pretty soon everyone is going to be playing CQB only and all those woodland sites and just poof with such limitations. What a disaster, I finally found a sport I absolutely love and just a few years in the idiots that run the country turn their eye of Sauron onto it. The police already said Airsoft isn't hurting people, there is no value in harming it and yet here we are crippling it for no good reason.

 

I think its time to skip to the continent and just be done with this shit country and its lack of basic logical decision making.

[Sacarathe]

http://www.ukapu.org.uk/about/frequently-asked-questions/

 

 

Why is this Lord attacking the small exemption we have gained?

Charles Henry John Benedict Crofton Chetwynd Chetwynd-Talbot, 22nd Earl of Shrewsbury is the President of the Gun Trade Association. He has tabled the amendment to remove the section we have fought hard to get removing the small power increase of 1 to 1.3J for auto guns and up to 2.5J for single shot.

This is a purely business motivated move by the GTA in order to bypass the VCRA. They are under the incorrect assumption that an automatic firearm is not section 5 prohibited. By wanting to line their own pockets and put airsoft guns in the hands of any idiot who wanders into a shop they are directly attacking the hobby we all enjoy as well as threatening it future by trying to cynically sidestep the checks and balances that the airsoft industry has so successfully abided by for the last 10 years.

[proffrink]

Another bump for this as it's getting a bit more real.

 

As Sacarathe says: Lord Shrewsbury is essentially offering up an amendment that would see all airsoft guns capped at a muzzle energy of 1J (328fps) and remove the exception given to them in the Policing and Crime Bill 2015/16 that would exempt us from any of the new restrictions being brought in. Anything over this limit becomes a section 5 firearm with the potential for a lengthy jail sentence if owned, and whilst it's basically unenforceable at an individual level this is going to see importers being far more sceptical of what they can and can't bring into the country. As we know: Many manufacturers guns clock in at up to the 400fps mark before being downgraded by retailers themselves.

 

There's a lot of speculation about why Shrewsbury is doing this (vis-a-vis his association with the Gun Trade Association and wanting to potentially bypass VCRA), but ultimately it only means one thing: Another shake-up for UK airsoft legality on a scale like we saw in 2007 when UKARA was introduced.

 

If you want to get involved in trying to stop this, it's imperative you do something. Anyone can post a comment or make a thread but very few people will take the 10 minutes needed to write an email or letter to the right people.

 

More about this amendment and a bullet point list of how you can help: http://www.ukapu.org.uk/saveairsoft/

Letter/email writing tips: http://www.ukapu.org.uk/saveairsoft/letter-writing-tips/

 

And the image from UKAPU if you want the whole thing summarised:

[Beethoven]

They will be seeking to ban water pistols, potato guns, pop guns and pea shooters next.

 

There seems to be no logical reason for the proposed legislation

[MrMcG]

They will be seeking to ban water pistols, potato guns, pop guns and pea shooters next.

 

There seems to be no logical reason for the proposed legislation

No logical reason indeed

 

Only the benefit from said Lord with airsoft sales being pushed into th air gun world

 

I guess this means any Tom dick or Harry could buy them now which would also seem counter productive..

[proffrink]

The speculation is that this 1J limit means a reclassification of airsoft guns and - like MrMcG says - basically putting RIF sales into the preview of air rifle/pistol retailers (i.e. members of the Gun Trade Association, who Shrewsbury is closesly acossiated with).

 

Airosft gets exceptions to certain laws because it's somewhat managed by UKARA, so this is nothing short of an attempt to gain a few extra sales for the GTA.

 

The interesting part is here though - the GTA has denied communicating with Shrewsbury on this matter, so either he's acting alone or they've back-pedalled after the boycott of GTA by some airsoft retailers (who are both airsoft gun and air rifle/pistol sellers). The backlash on social media may also have had an effect.

 

Here's the article from today on UKSN that's circulating: https://ukshootingnews.wordpress.com/2016/09/01/gun-trade-association-chief-tables-house-of-lords-attack-on-airsofters/

 

In short: Take 10 minutes to email/write to lords and the GTA. It's the only thing that matters right now.

[jcheeseright]

im not sure this is a commercial move, most Airsoft guns are capable of full auto fire and so won't be able to be sold even by a RFD if his proposal passes.

[proffrink]

Not as in-depth as your reasoning, but that was my feeling too. Just didn't make sense as we're such a slim portion of the market compared to real steel sales.

[MrMcG]

im not sure this is a commercial move, most Airsoft guns are capable of full auto fire and so won't be able to be sold even by a RFD if his proposal passes.

If that's true then Christ knows what this guy is thinking

 

I'm not abject to stringent rules and regs and the whole 1j thing is done in NI and other places but I do abject to some silver spooned moron who believes he is above everyone throwing his weight around for no good reason

[MrMcG]

http://forums.zeroin.co.uk/showthread.php?278395-IMPORTANT-correspondence-with-MA-S-and-Lord-s

 

Be worth keeping tabs on this

[proffrink]

Not had a reply to my email (and it was quite nicely worded apart from the bit where I said I might have to take up canoeing instead and probably end up killing myself). Granted it was only sent yesterday though.