TM HK416 owners, upgrade advice

[Alex34]

Going to have my BTC Spectre installed professionally along with a M100 spring, upgraded motor and a service pack that includes:

1 x Airlab Sorbothane Pad

1 x New O-ring

All necessary Shims

1 x Lonex Recoil Cylinder Head

1 x Set of Prometheus 6mm Steel Bushings

 

Now I could go crazy with upgrades while it's being worked on but want some opinions from upgraded TM Recoil owners first. I am contemplating a EdGI or PDI tightbore barrel, R-Hop and Prom (purple) bucking with Prowin chamber as well but not sure if performance increase will justify the cost. Also, as the gearbox is being opened, is it worth swapping for some Prom gears?

 

There are other things such as a Prom piston assembly,cylinder,spring guide and nozzle I am looking at but will only consider if I can justify the performance gains.

 

Please tell me what you think based off of your experience.

 

Oh, and I am looking to get a very accurate, very responsive, reliable CQB rifle (as close to CQB fps limits as possible) out of these upgrades. I know some will say that the TM is most of those things stock but I feel trigger response can be far better as well as fps and accuracy.

[Mos]

I'm no one to go by, but, from what I know, a high quality piston would help. Don't know if the stock one is good, but...

[Jedi_Master]

^^^ why are you commenting on something that you know absolutely nothing about. The OP wants advice from owners of the TM HK who have upgraded their guns.

 

What part of that do you not understand. Do you have this gun and have upgraded it, I think not. You actually say that you are "no one to go by" and don't know what TM stock parts are like. And yet then mention a high quality piston - why, where have you read this - and from which brand?

 

I do own this gun, but I have not upgraded it, so am interested in seeing some real answers from people who know what they are talking about. Not rubbish from someone who has no fecking idea.

[Alex34]

Lets keep it civil guys, please.

 

Thanks for your input Mos.

 

I know there must be at least some upgraded TM Recoil owners on the forum who could offer advice??

[dex]

You won't see much of an improvement. Most of what you list is just swapping one part for another. One of the best performing parts of tm recoils is the hop unit, so why change it?

[Snakeeyes75]

I have a TM Scar L CQC, as far as Iknow they're fairly similar internally. Mine is stock and shoots at 299 with .2's, the only thing I'm going to do is put a TBB in to achieve a better fps without putting a heavier load on the motor. The hop is perfect and you don't want to start messing with the gearbox unless something is wrong with it.

[Alex34]

One thing that will definitely be done is the BTC Spectre mosfet. The gearbox will have to be opened to install it, there really is no avoiding that. While thats being done I will have the spring and motor changed as they are usually straight forward.

 

The other stuff is really an after thought as the gun is already being disassembled. I don't have much experience with other AEGs but I think the accuracy could be better but my lack of experience with others leaves me with little to compare stock accuracy to. If upgraded barrel and rubbers makes only marginal improvement then it wouldn't make any sense for me.

 

The bushings and shims I think make sense as the gearbox will be opened anyway. The Prom gears were an after thought.

[Alex34]

I think I will at least have the bushings and shims done while the gearbox is being opened for the mosfet; the cylinder head, O-ring and Sorbothane pad done while the spring is being upgraded; and upgrade to a custom motor.

 

If all the other stuff is unnecessary, would the above be sufficient upgrades to performance?

[dex]

I think I will at least have the bushings and shims done while the gearbox is being opened for the mosfet; the cylinder head, O-ring and Sorbothane pad done while the spring is being upgraded; and upgrade to a custom motor.

 

If all the other stuff is unnecessary, would the above be sufficient upgrades to performance?

You will get a slightly better trigger response. Get a lonex a2 motor in it and run it on 7.4 lipos and you're golden.

[Alex34]

Forgot to say I am already running 7.4 Lipos on deans.

 

So dex, you're saying all those upgrades will only slightly improve trigger response?

[Alex34]

I come from a RC background and I know the major differences even the slightest mods/upgrades can make to a car. Now I know I can't really compare a RC car to an AEG but I would have thought there are some similarities as far as upgrading is concerned.

[ImTriggerHappy]

I come from a RC background and I know the major differences even the slightest mods/upgrades can make to a car. Now I know I can't really compare a RC car to an AEG but I would have thought there are some similarities as far as upgrading is concerned.

Other than the fact they both can have an electric motor no comparison at all.

 

Upgrading an aeg is just using physics to its best advantage.

You can make them fire fast, have a quick trigger response but its all for nought if the accuracy is crap. Thats the thing about the TM recoils they already have good range and accuracy so most people dont mess with them.

Everything you do can give a slight improvement but it takes lots of things working together to get any real difference. This is where things go wrong normally, people chuck upgrade after upgrade into guns but dont get the balance right and quite often make things worse.

Decide what you want to achieve with the upgrading process and go from there dont just chuck parts at the gun. Be very careful of advice from shop techs as they will often tell you need something you dont because thats how they make money.

 

Regarding the spectre they are really designed for gear heads who are constantly tweaking their guns.

If you install one of these in a standard gun and are planning on getting it installed then not using all the functions you might as well get a cheaper programmable fet. They are the best but 90% of people who have them dont use them properly.

Best of luck with whatever you do but dont expect miracles.

[dex]

OK, to sum up as best I can what your "upgrades" will give you:

- cylinder head - is the stock one broke?

- o-ring - for what?

- piston head - see above

- sorbo - AoE correction - arguable reliability benefit at the RoF recoils are capable of

- steel bushings - these have some benefit in longevity - stock ones are plastic

- btc spectre - benefits if you want to have different firing modes etc, will give a slightly better trigger response

- upgrade spring - fps increase = very slight range increase

the biggest flaws in the TM recoil platform are:

- the electrics/wiring; it has more resistance than an Israeli housing project

- the bushings; if you run the gun stock - no problem, start putting heavier springs in - reliability may suffer

- the motors - are a bit weak

- fps - a bit law due to Japanese law

- the recoil system - the main feature of these guns is also the main drawback, all the extra moving parts, weight and stress means you can only do so much with them

So IMHO (obviously feel free to disagree) the most worthy upgrades would be:

- steel bushings/bearings

- upgrade spring

- upgrade wiring

- deans

- high torque motor

- 7.4 lipo

The above will give you a nice snappy trigger, a slight bump in RoF and a healthy bump in FPS.

If you want to spend a load more money (don't expect miracles here)

- a mosfet/spectre

- r-hop

Again, all the above is based purely on my experience of upgrading recoils and other AEGs and those of friends who own and have upgraded them.

[Esoterick]

 

So IMHO (obviously feel free to disagree) the most worthy upgrades would be:

- steel bushings/bearings

- upgrade spring

- upgrade wiring

- deans

- high torque motor

- 7.4 lipo

The above will give you a nice snappy trigger, a slight bump in RoF and a healthy bump in FPS.

If you want to spend a load more money (don't expect miracles here)

- a mosfet/spectre

- r-hop

Again, all the above is based purely on my experience of upgrading recoils and other AEGs and those of friends who own and have upgraded them.

 

 

This is pretty much what i've got in my Recce rifle, except the stock motor has a stronger magnet fitted and i've got a Prometheus barrel.

[Alex34]

Some really good advice.

 

@Trigger, what I want to improve is trigger response, accuracy and getting bbs to their targets quicker. I have already bought the Spectre and the reason for buying was because of all the options it has, especially shot bursts and lipo monitoring. I only paid £80 for it brand new from BTC so I couldn't pass it up. My original plan was to do the spring, mosfet, motor, bushings and inner barrel assembly but have been recommended all these other bits by the tech. The tech is very well known and is regarded as one of the best but the costing quickly got out of hand and this is why I'm getting advice from you guys.

 

@dex, I agree with your recommendation as well. It is pretty much what I originally set out to do minus the tightbore barrel. If the upgraded barrel is only a marginal improvement from the stock then it's not worth it to me.

[ImTriggerHappy]

Some really good advice.

 

@Trigger, what I want to improve is trigger response, accuracy and getting bbs to their targets quicker. I have already bought the Spectre and the reason for buying was because of all the options it has, especially shot bursts and lipo monitoring. I only paid £80 for it brand new from BTC so I couldn't pass it up. My original plan was to do the spring, mosfet, motor, bushings and inner barrel assembly but have been recommended all these other bits by the tech. The tech is very well known and is regarded as one of the best but the costing quickly got out of hand and this is why I'm getting advice from you guys.

 

@dex, I agree with your recommendation as well. It is pretty much what I originally set out to do minus the tightbore barrel. If the upgraded barrel is only a marginal improvement from the stock then it's not worth it to me.

Leave the barrel stock its really not worth it unless the barrel is poor quality and the TM one is ok.

Get a decent balanced motor instead of high torque if using standard gears.

Change bushings and spring but leave aoe there is no real point unless your going high speed. It is worth rewiring tm wiring is crap.

Firefly bucking can help a bit with range and accuracy but not essential.

[dex]

Get a decent balanced motor instead of high torque if using standard gears.

 

Lonex a2 or SHS high torque would be my recommendation. Dont mistake high torque for slow, these are both high rpm and will give a snappy trigger and a good RoF.

[ImTriggerHappy]

 

Lonex a2 or SHS high torque would be my recommendation. Dont mistake high torque for slow, these are both high rpm and will give a snappy trigger and a good RoF.

With standard gear ratio I would go for lonex a1 but each to their own.

[jcheeseright]

Wow, I'm going to display my spoilt toddler side now and recommend people only advise if they have ACTUAL experience of the parts he's asking about.

 

If you're fitting a Spectre (and I REALLY recommend you do) then a new motor is completely pointless, especially when you set up the MOSFET for pre-cocking (which would give you instant trigger response with the worlds crappiest JustBBguns motor anyway) the TM EG1000 is more than good enough when combined with a decent 7.4v LiPo. You'll probably want to use the full-auto ROF control to turn the ROF down as well, since with the MOSFET fitted you can easily be going above 20rps which can (not definitely will, but CAN) cause issues with timing between recoil weight and piston. All fitting a new motor is going to do is make your gearbox noisier, unless you get your tech to swap the pinion gear off the EG1000 and onto the new one... but why bother?

 

Besides the Spectre, the M100 spring is always a good shout, make sure it's an Eagle6 one though to ensure it's the correct length for the slightly shorter recoil gearbox.

 

Nothing wrong with the TM piston, piston head or o-ring, replacing the o-ring probably won't do any harm but why replace a part that's perfectly adequate? The stock spring is roughly an M90 so going up to an M100 isn't going to place any significant additional stress on any of those parts, I'd say save the money.

 

Prowin hop-up won't fit, so don't even entertain it, the recoil hop-up unit is pretty much a perfect design, stick with it. Barrels wise, only thing I'd recommend is a prometheus 6.03 since the TM one is already really good, hop-up buckings/rhops etc I find are all a bit personal preference. I use firefly buckings and nubs because I find they provide better shot to shot consistency and require less hop to be dialled on to get the required effect, some people prefer r-hop but personally I think it's snake oil.

 

List of bits I have in my guns are below:

14" M4 (340fps):

Spectre MOSFET

Eagle6 M95 spring

Prometheus 363mm 6.03mm barrel

Firefly bucking/nub

 

10" HK416 (300fps):

Spectre MOSFET

Firefly bucking/nub

I did have an M110 spring in this for Milsim games, but took it out to use as a CQB gun, the TM EG1000 maintained a 20 RPS ROF even with the M110 fitted, the Spectre is THAT good.

 

Both shoot like lasers, obviously the M4 shoots a bit further.

[dex]

Wow, I'm going to display my spoilt toddler side now and recommend people only advise if they have ACTUAL experience of the parts he's asking about.

 

If you're fitting a Spectre (and I REALLY recommend you do) then a new motor is completely pointless, especially when you set up the MOSFET for pre-cocking (which would give you instant trigger response with the worlds crappiest JustBBguns motor anyway) the TM EG1000 is more than good enough when combined with a decent 7.4v LiPo.

 

Having previously owned and upgraded a sopmod and currently owning and upgraded a recoil scar l and having fitted spectres for 2 other people I think I would qualify.

 

I'll concede that with a Spectre a new motor isnt required when using precocking. If you dont fit a Spectre then its a good idea - I fitted one in my scar for example as it doesnt have a Spectre.

 

I tend to agree somewhat with r-hop, I've seen it done well and give a good shot consistency, but no more that you could get with a decent hop unit and hop rubber (maple leaf for example).

[Alex34]

The motor would be a custom hand made balanced one from Sam Liggat at Kingdom of Airsoft. I believe it is based off of the A2 motor though.

 

@jcheeseright, I have read many good things about the Spectre and have test fired several guns with them installed. They are pricey but I do think it's worth it. The O-ring, cylinder head and sorbothane pad are part of a "Special Recoil Service" package from Kingdom of Airsoft (along with shims and bushings) that was recommended.

 

http://www.kingdomofairsoft.com/#!services/cfvg

[ImTriggerHappy]

The motor would be a custom hand made balanced one from Sam Liggat at Kingdom of Airsoft. I believe it is based off of the A2 motor though.

 

@jcheeseright, I have read many good things about the Spectre and have test fired several guns with them installed. They are pricey but I do think it's worth it. The O-ring, cylinder head and sorbothane pad are part of a "Special Recoil Service" package from Kingdom of Airsoft (along with shims and bushings) that was recommended.

 

http://www.kingdomofairsoft.com/#!services/cfvg

Kingdom of airsoft have a good rep so good shout on using them.

As for the motor jcheeseright is right you dont have to change it but I always chuck a lonex into pretty much everything. Its a matter of choice I suppose.

Spectre is good when set right, still stick by what I said that most people havent got them set right or utilise them to their full extent.

Agree with hop up other than bucking I would leave alone.

Disagree with the prommy barrel if your going to change look at the pdi 6.08mm or 6.05mm far better in my opinion.

At the end of the day the most important thing is that your happy with the outcome most upgrades are not necessary but thats not why we do it.

If you really want a gun to be proud of do the work yourself, you get a better sense of achievement.

[Esoterick]

The motor would be a custom hand made balanced one from Sam Liggat at Kingdom of Airsoft. I believe it is based off of the A2 motor though.

 

I think he uses the stock motor and puts a stronger magnet in there as he was the chap that did all the work on my Recce rifle. I got Sam to work on my gun after using my mates HK416 that had been upgraded by him. I still haven't had a chance to use it yet though, although that should change soon

 

No idea how the R hop setup compares to others but I do know that my mates HK416 considerably outranges my HK416 which is stock bar barrel and hop rubber and is confirmed shooting 50 metres accurately on a measured range. We were testing the ranges of the two guns with me using 0.25g BBs and him using 0.30g.

[Alex34]

 

I think he uses the stock motor and puts a stronger magnet in there as he was the chap that did all the work on my Recce rifle. I got Sam to work on my gun after using my mates HK416 that had been upgraded by him. I still haven't had a chance to use it yet though, although that should change soon

 

No idea how the R hop setup compares to others but I do know that my mates HK416 considerably outranges my HK416 which is stock bar barrel and hop rubber and is confirmed shooting 50 metres accurately on a measured range. We were testing the ranges of the two guns with me using 0.25g BBs and him using 0.30g.

Do you know which inner barrel is in your mate's 416?

[Alex34]

@Trigger, I would really love to attempt the upgrades myself but I would be extremely upset if I cocked it up. A mate of mine got lucky and bought a broken Masada for £20... if I ever come across something like that then I would have a field day on diy upgrades. Until then I will stick to shooting people and running :-)