UKARA / VCRA / Shotgun-Firearms certificate

[djben9]

Not that it will matter soon to me anyway but......

 

When UKARA / VCRA laws were born in the days, was there a reason why anyone who owns a shotgun or has a shotgun/firearms certificate (i believe they are becoming one now?) that is vetted by the Police, was not allowed to own a RIF as one of the exceptions?

 

My dad was more curious when i told him about it, as i myself, and i guess others, have a certificate

 

Seems odd that i can buy shotgun cartridges and a new shot gun for clay pigeon shooting easier than a RIF

 

Like i said, im not to worried, but more curious when he mentioned it

 

 

(im not fully clued up on the law and only know the very very basics!)

[jcheeseright]

because the VCRA initially just outlawed the sale of RIFs altogether, it was only after consultation that they added in the specific defence against prosecution for skirmishers.

 

It's a really badly written bit of legislation that's full of holes and inconsistencies, I expect whichever work experience kid or mumsnet forum wrote it just didn't think "these guys have real guns already, will BB guns make any difference?!".

[TheGrover]

Unfortunately, even though you can legally own a lethal weapon you still can't get hold of an RID unless you go through the rigmarole.

 

It's not you that would break the law, but the seller who needs to keep within broken laws

[BrightCandle]

You can buy an air rifle/pistol or a crossbow/bow so long as your 18, all of which can be lethal to a human being and look like a real weapon. You can get a paintball "marker" that looks remarkably like an M4 again if you are over 18.

 

 

An airsoft IF (a toy) can be bought so long as your 18 and a RIF only with suitable defence proving you play the sport of airsoft. I can't personally reconcile why its OK for a paintball gun to be easy to get but an airsoft one isn't. But what this law teaches me is its not about the danger the weapon poses, its what it looks like.

[two_zero]

 

When UKARA / VCRA laws were born in the days, was there a reason why anyone who owns a shotgun or has a shotgun/firearms certificate (i believe they are becoming one now?) that is vetted by the Police, was not allowed to own a RIF as one of the exceptions?

Do you skirmish with the shotgun?

 

The laws around RIFs (unwisely maybe) seem to be more in concern to however you need a RIF than if you are suitable to own one.

[djben9]

cheers guys, great replies!

 

i'll let the old man know!

[two_zero]

You can get a paintball "marker" that looks remarkably like an M4 again if you are over 18.

 

These does not count as realistic imitation firearms????

[Russe11]

The Law looks at your reason for owning each type of gun separately. If you have a firearms license, you still need a shotgun licence to get a shotgun. In the same way, RIF's are considered a separate issue to firearms. If you are a target shooter or clay pigeon shooter, that doesn't mean you have a valid reason to buy an airsoft gun.

[Dannn]

I found the same, being in possession of a firearm cert doesn't mean one can buy a toy gun.

But that's our backward country for you !

[TheGrover]

I found the same, being in possession of a firearm cert doesn't mean one can buy a toy gun.

But that's our backward country for you !

Hey, if the laws made sense, it wouldn't feel like home

[Deek]

Way back before the VCRA the sale of airsoft weapons was unregulated as they were viewed as toys, and in the beginning these toy guns really did look like toys. Then we saw the introduction of realistic looking weapons from the likes of Tokyo Marui. Again, in the early days, these things were expensive and generally had to be imported directly from Japan. Single-shot springers soon gave way to electric automatic weapons and before long Soft Air evolved into Airsoft and it became viable to use these sorts of weapons to skirmish.

 

Airsoft started to become popular, and once this occurred the Chinese saw an opportunity to market copies of the TM stuff or to produce their own versions of the cheaper springer weapons.

 

Before long a lot of retailers, including market stalls, were selling toy guns that looked like real weapons. Because these weapons were pocket money priced a lot of children were buying them and running around the streets with them; the so called 'springer kiddies'.

 

This was at a time when there were big problems with the gang culture, and soon gang members were carrying these as they were almost indistinguishable from a real firearm unless examined closely. This let to a lot of high profile cases of Police firearms teams being deployed to people walking around with 'guns' only to find them carrying toys.

 

There was a big movement nationally, following on from the trend in the USA, where mother's groups were campaigning to get guns banned - I can't remember exactly, but I think one of the groups were called 'Mother's Against Guns'. These groups put pressure onto the Government to take action.

 

So, as part of a wide review of the powers to deal with violent crime, the Violent Crime Reduction Bill was proposed. There was lots of involvement from Airsofters to try and get the hobby recognised, but at the time our voice wasn't very strong, and the view that it would be safer to annoy a small niche group rather than allow these realistic looking toys into the hands of gang members who commit crime.

 

The bill became an Act, and overnight retailers were no longer able to sell realistic looking toy guns and a problem was solved; Thankfully though airsofters were persistent and our voice became louder and a specific defense was introduced allowing airsofters to continue using such 'toys' for our hobby.

 

As a side note on paintball markers. At the time paintball markers didn't resemble realistic firearms at all; it is only in recent years they have started to look like realistic weapons. As far as the law goes I would suggest it all depends on which legal person is looking at the legislations - personally, I feel that these realistic looking paintball makers would come under the VCRA, but this has not been tested in court as yet.

[djben9]

cheers Deek, that's one excellent reply and has also helped me understand it more, thanks for your time to write it!

[Deek]

cheers Deek, that's one excellent reply and has also helped me understand it more, thanks for your time to write it!

 

No probs