Found something to hate more than the P90

[TheFull9]

Which would be all very well, Chris, if ergonomic studies had shown that the people of today had shorter arms than those of 40-50 years ago. I just don't believe that they have...

 

Hence why I said "The firearm itself has some shortfalls but it does the job it was designed for despite the long list of restrictions and limitations".

 

I specifically didn't argue the idea that it's got 'cramping' issues, but that wouldn't stop the firearm being effective as a PDW. Indeed, it would be massively more useful than anything in a pistol calibre, let alone 9mm, when the other guy probably has 762x39. The point of the post wasn't to say its' perfect, not at all, just that it makes a great deal of sense for the very specific purpose it was designed for. If you've poked around inside the cockpit of a fast jet, Apache or armoured vehicle (which I'd imagine you will have at some point) you'll know where the issues come from in terms of having incredibly limited space to store personal weapons, hence the extremely compact overall size of the rifle. Craft such as those are bad enough when viewed empty, once you add a crew in all their body armour, helmets, kit bags, comms wires, O2 lines, ejector seat straps, maps, night vision etc etc etc.... the problem is made even worse.

 

I can only speak for myself after handling the airsoft version that yes it is on the small side, but personally I really did not find it uncomfortably small and wouldn't have any problem using it. All I'd say myself is for the tall and long-armed to not buy the airsoft version (if they happen to find one in stock), but that's a really specific situation given how few are left floating about for sale now. Personally, I don't really like the overall ergonomics of AKs because the receivers are on the long side compared to a lot of other modern rifles, as are the stocks too generally. With an AR I never extend the stock past the first click and the fire control hand is almost touching my chest; horses for courses.

[murph]

I actually semi - like it. From what I've seen an EoTech, a suppressor and the 30 round PMAGs can make it look sort of space-agey. I've also been thinking a lot about getting a bullpup recently, especially the TAR - 21 thingy.

 

But the two stage trigger thing is a definite put - off. Same reason I wouldn't buy an AUG. I'd imagine that semi only fields would be reluctant to let someone use it and I think that in an intense firefight it would be difficult to focus on ammo conservation if need be, since you have to focus on how hard you squeeze the trigger whilst needing to fire fast.

[Ian_Gere]

TBH Chris, bullpups are hardly new anymore either and if the point is to create a PDW which gives a downed pilot, for eg, a chance against someone with a MBR, then my money is on design the thing from the ground up, because ease of use is as much a factor in the effectiveness of firearms as calibre and muzzle velocity, surely. I don't know what the answer is off the top of my head, but next to no distance between the pistol grip and off hand grip is definitely not it.

 

I mean, in this day and age of excellent materials science, why does the off hand grip even need to be inline? It must surely be possible to create a grip which could unfold and extend out of the side of the weapon, preferably also down like an upside down handlebar so that you don't have to hold your off hand up to the height of your shoulder, with adjustable stiffness to manage recoil throwing aim off, and you could probably design an off-centre but still perfectly stable bipod into such a thing - nylon fibre and titanium tube = light and strong = Bob's the geezer shagging your mum.

 

But my point wasn't that real steel similar to this had no function anyway, it was that the PDR-C is a pig ugly object without a single redeeming aesthetic feature!

[dapprman]

I mean, in this day and age of excellent materials science, why does the off hand grip even need to be inline? It must surely be possible to create a grip which could unfold and extend out of the side of the weapon, preferably also down like an upside down handlebar so that you don't have to hold your off hand up to the height of your shoulder, with adjustable stiffness to manage recoil throwing aim off,

H&K MP7 ... - not a bullpup I know, but it fits your requirements in that respect. Seem to remember though that the 4.6mm round (and the P90's 5.7) are not as effective as they were meant to be.

[Ian_Gere]

H&K MP7 ... - not a bullpup I know, but it fits your requirements in that respect. Seem to remember though that the 4.6mm round (and the P90's 5.7) are not as effective as they were meant to be.

No that is nothing like I'm imagining. I mean a grip at right angles to the barrel, about 18" long, at about 45 degrees from the horizontal. With some kind of adjustable spring...

[DX115FALCON]

I just generally hate Magpull guns. Just makes guns look more "toyish" IMO

[strewthirwin]

I feel like the only huge p90 & PDR fan here. These are the sexiest guns out there in my opinion!

[Ian_Gere]

I feel like the only huge p90 & PDR fan here. These are the sexiest guns out there in my opinion!

There are support groups for that...

[Lozart]

I feel like the only huge p90 & PDR fan here. These are the sexiest guns out there in my opinion!

 

I like P90s. Ignore Ian - if you can't plough a field with it, it's not a gun he likes.

[Ian_Gere]

Not really, I just draw the line at getting confused between my guns and my kitchen equipment...