WE 416 vs. VFC 416

[Gretik]

Hello,

 

Been looking around, getting back into the sport and there are so many new brands!

 

I'm considering getting a 416 and currently debating between an Umarex M27, or the WE 416 (888) - I know the VFC has more accurate external features and trademarks.

 

What kind of difference will there be between them in terms of their internals?

 

(I am also considering a SCAR-L, probably from between these two companies and ARES - advice between those would be very helpful too!)

 

 

 

Thanks!

[Lozart]

Re: the SCAR-L consider the G&G one. Definitely not the Ares one though, not heard anything good about them.

[Gretik]

I'll have a look into the reviews, if you have anything to add about it - more information the better!

 

Thanks!

[Airsoft-Ed]

I'm considering getting a 416 and currently debating between an Umarex M27, or the WE 416 (888) - I know the VFC has more accurate external features and trademarks.

As far as I'm aware, the WE 888 is a gas rifle, it's WE's version of the 416c unless I'm mistaken and they've done an AEG one as well?

[BrightCandle]

The G&G is called the T4-18, comes in a normal length and a Light version which is a close quarters length barrel.

 

I don't know about WE, I haven't seen all that many people using them so its hard to say. So far I have just assumed they are a bad chinese firm (based on the price points they are hitting) so I kind of figured it wasn't worth considering.

[Gretik]

As far as I'm aware, the WE 888 is a gas rifle, it's WE's version of the 416c unless I'm mistaken and they've done an AEG one as well?

 

This is the AEG in question:

 

http://www.landwarriorairsoft.com/airsoft-weapons-c38/electric-rifles-c45/we-we-4168-rifle-hk416-p3358

[Gretik]

Hadn't realized the G&G was a blow back ERG - I was trying to stay away from those as I'd rather keep my first gun very simple, internally at least.

[Airsoft-Ed]

Never knew they did an AEG one (Y)

The G&G blowbacks don't really alter anything performance related and they don't really make the guns that much more complicated to take apart either. They don't add any stress to the parts as they're powered by air instead of just being clamped to the piston, the guns also perform so ridiculously well out of the box that I would say to just leave them completely alone apart from maybe the barrel and hop rubber.

Really good systems in my experience. Blowback without recoil is undoubtably a gimmick, but if you want to have it then G&G is definitely the way to go.

The WE AEGs are supposedly pretty decent, but the company have a bit of a mixed reputation due to selling low price gas guns with a history of poor quality parts. They're definitely getting better though, and their AEGs aren't really comparable to their gas guns, I've only heard good about them so far, and their Katana series is pretty popular too.

If I wanted a 416 I'd look at the VFC (note that the Umarex 416 is the VFC one, just with trademarks/more trademarks), G&G and Tokyo Marui versions though. All with their owns pros and cons of course, but all perfectly good performers with robust externals. The VFC and G&G are more or level in terms of performance, and all 3 of them use the same gearbox design, but the TM has physical recoil, hence the inflated price.

As for SCARs, avoid Ares, they're terrible. High prices because of the exceedingly pretty externals, but the internals are made of swiss cheese and wet biscuits. I'd say G&G, VFC or TM again lol, same exact points about them as before too, same gearbox design in all 3, but the TM has recoil.

[M_P]

Never knew they did an AEG one (Y)

 

The G&G blowbacks don't really alter anything performance related and they don't really make the guns that much more complicated to take apart either. They don't add any stress to the parts as they're powered by air instead of just being clamped to the piston, the guns also perform so ridiculously well out of the box that I would say to just leave them completely alone apart from maybe the barrel and hop rubber.

 

Really good systems in my experience. Blowback without recoil is undoubtably a gimmick, but if you want to have it then G&G is definitely the way to go.

 

The WE AEGs are supposedly pretty decent, but the company have a bit of a mixed reputation due to selling low price gas guns with a history of poor quality parts. They're definitely getting better though, and their AEGs aren't really comparable to their gas guns, I've only heard good about them so far, and their Katana series is pretty popular too.

 

If I wanted a 416 I'd look at the VFC (note that the Umarex 416 is the VFC one, just with trademarks/more trademarks), G&G and Tokyo Marui versions though. All with their owns pros and cons of course, but all perfectly good performers with robust externals. The VFC and G&G are more or level in terms of performance, and all 3 of them use the same gearbox design, but the TM has physical recoil, hence the inflated price.

 

As for SCARs, avoid Ares, they're terrible. High prices because of the exceedingly pretty externals, but the internals are made of swiss cheese and wet biscuits. I'd say G&G, VFC or TM again lol, same exact points about them as before too, same gearbox design in all 3, but the TM has recoil.

Nothing more to add to this, pretty much spot on, though it's worth mentioning the TMs do actuallyhave different gearbox designs so be aware standard parts won't fit.

[Gretik]

Thanks for the information! I'm still leaning away from ERG's, if only from a personal taste point of view.

 

(The only ones I've seen thus far had a habit of not having the fake bolt/dust cover fully close most of the time.)

[Gretik]

Another quick question, sorry to pile them on.

 

Would you recommend the generation 2 or generation 3 version of the G&G T4-18?

[Airsoft-Ed]

Thanks for the information! I'm still leaning away from ERG's, if only from a personal taste point of view.

 

(The only ones I've seen thus far had a habit of not having the fake bolt/dust cover fully close most of the time.)

That's a feature of the old designs where they used to clamp the bolt face directly to the piston, G&G designs and TM's recoil series don't suffer from this. I feel your pain about it though, it's why I hated blow backs too lol.

 

 

 

Another quick question, sorry to pile them on.

 

Would you recommend the generation 2 or generation 3 version of the G&G T4-18?

 

The Gen2 is essentially the same as the Gen3, the only thing added if I remember correctly is that the Gen3 comes with an active braking mosfet, which in performance terms means you ought to get improved trigger response (the time it takes the gears to spool up, turn over the parts and let off a shot) and you'll be able to run higher voltage batteries without having to worry about burning out any of the electronics.

 

I'd probably get the Gen2 if it were me, the mosfets aren't a necessity at all, and you can always add one later if you find the gun to be underperforming.

[BrightCandle]

I have the gen 3 T4-18 light and I only just got it, haven't skirmished it yet so I don't want to comment too much on it. The Electronic blow back system is mostly noise, it provides no useful feeling or kick to the gun whatsoever, its also light so I don't imagine it will cause any issues on the gearbox. Its not a reason not to get this gun basically. The dust cover might be a problem at some point, the hop wheel could get gunk in it but its not like you'll get dirt in the actual barrel and hop this way (well not easily!). I think its a non issue.

 

In terms of accuracy out of the box I am putting in 2cm 7 out of 10 groups at 10m (prone supported) and about 30% "fliers" which are up to an inch away. That is pretty healthy and compares favourably to a CM16 which was 4 inch groups at the same range (or all fliers depending on how you look at it). Some of the fliers might be me rather than the gun however as I think my 4 MOA sight isn't sufficient to get the full accuracy out of the gun as it completely obscures the small competition targets I am using (10m air rifle). Its pretty accurate out of the box, bang on 320 fps for me.

 

The only complaints I have about it so far are with the front rail. Most of the weight of the gun is in that rail, its very front heavy. I have some white welding showing on the rail in parts, its hidden away and not obvious but if you turn the gun upside down its quite obvious. Not the best workmanship and painting job I have seen unfortunately. So far its fired flawless except for one of the mags which was sticking but seems to have loosened up a bit, 500 rounds or so without any problems other than that magazine. I am pretty happy with it overall it seems to work as intended.

 

Basically how I looked at this one was:

1) Recoil + bolt lock gives the most realistic feeling to the gun and you want that then get the TM.

2) External trade marks and realism from the look is important to you then get the VFC.

3) Otherwise the G&G is cheaper. Its probably not as accurate as TM (what is?!) but its a lot cheaper.

 

I went (3) despite saying I was going to do (1). In the end I decided recoil and bolt locking was nice but it just wasn't worth £300 to me. I don't care at all for external trades, I just want a competitive gun rather than the look. I went for a HK 416 so I didn't have to deal with a front iron sight in my sight picture and I got some rail space for my tac light.

 

PS Despite the mosfet in the Gen 3 mine specifically comes with a warning in the box that says a 11.1 lipo will void the warranty and that it should be used with a 7.4V lipo or up to 9.6V ni. We have had a report on these forums as well that the mosfet burnt out on the 11.1 lipo. Trigger response is very nippy with a 2600mah 25C vapex 7.4 and rof was 15 rounds per second.

[Gretik]

Cheers for the advice, I think I'll go with the T4-18, having scouted about and ready various reviews of it - got footage of it firing in fully auto and the cycling of the fake bolt looked fine to me.

[Gretik]

Question about the G&G, are the gear boxes on a gen 3 still prone to splitting?

[jcheeseright]

no.

[Unrustle_Thine_Jimmies]

G&G's gearbox shells are not the strongest about but they are certainly not as split happy as they used to be. Only some rare reports of gearbox splitting on M120 springs jammed in by dumb yanks who know nothing about Piston AOE and sorbo pad reinforcement. G&G have improved a fair bit,it won't break on you.

[Gretik]

More questions, sorry! I will possibly have the budget for either the G&G or the VFC - does the extra cost only get you external niceties, or are there any performance differences?

 

(I could possibly stretch to the TM, but the proprietary mags kill it for me.)

[jcheeseright]

you don't have to use the proprietary mags with a TM, you can buy an adapter for about a tenner that'll let you use standard AEG magazines. Though you do lose the bolt stop feature if you do that.

[Lozart]

More questions, sorry! I will possibly have the budget for either the G&G or the VFC - does the extra cost only get you external niceties, or are there any performance differences?

 

(I could possibly stretch to the TM, but the proprietary mags kill it for me.)

 

The general consensus seems to be that the VFC is nicer externally and the G&G is better internally. Depends how fussed you are on external detail I guess. I have the G&G SCAR-L and it's a great gun. Not perfect, granted but it looks close enough and works reliably and is pretty accuracte.

[BrightCandle]

G&G top techs are pretty good internally. The T4-18 is an 8mm gearbox + the usual trimmings of a decent gun. Take a look at :

which will go over the internals over the top techs (compared to the combat machine). In short the top tech has:

 

Ball bearing spring guide

Ball bearings in the cylinder

Cylinder is brass

Brass barrel (6.03)

8mm bearings

 

Steel mag catch

Steel trigger

 

I don't know about the VFC internals I haven't investigated it too heavily but you should be able to get a parts breakdown on youtube and be able to compare what wear and tear reduction/consistency parts VFC are putting in there. My general understanding is the G&G is better internally but you'll want to look into the specifics of that.

[Gretik]

Thanks for the extra information, still wavering back and forth in my head - other forums appear to fall into either loving VFC and loathing other 416 makes, or the opposite.