Need help deciding on some high end guns

[jcheeseright]

there's a few differences, the TM will shoot further and more accurately without modification, when your magazine is empty it'll stop firing and the recoil effect will become something you can't do without!

 

The 416 DEVGRU is the most expensive recoil gun available, is it £165 better than a VFC? That depends entirely on how much £165 is to you, but it's undoubtedly a better gun.

 

As dex has said, the recoil shock specific magazines are a little more expensive ~£18 each but you can if you want buy a small plastic adapter that'll allow you to use normal AEG mags, albeit with the loss of the bolt stop when the magazine is empty.

 

Oh, and don't get it from airsoft world, even though they're claiming that they've knocked the price down it's still a rip!
http://www.fire-support.co.uk/product/marui-416-devgru-aeg-airsoft-recoil-rifle-ebb

£20 cheaper and if you give them a ring they'll do the battery conversion for you.

[jcheeseright]

or, if you don't want to spend an extra £60 on a silencer and a fore grip, the standard 416D is largely the same gun but £485 instead of £545

http://www.fire-support.co.uk/product/marui-recoil-416d-airsoft-gun-ebb-aeg

[BrightCandle]

I am struggling with this choice myself. I have been considering a 416 or a SCAR H and in both cases been looking strongly in the TM direction for the bolt locking and recoil functions combined with the "magic" hop up and famous accuracy. Its obviously expensive and with the special magazines and with the SCAR that also means special pouches it really starts to add up in extra cost. But it does appear in every way they are quality guns all be it with plastic externals in some cases (where the real steel isn't plastic).

 

I had been looking also at VFC but I have found the internals are often lacking in quality, they are very focussed on getting the externals and trades there rather than a really accurate high ROF gun. Then there is KWA which also seems to do good externals and the internals are decent enough but most people seem to buy these two high end guns for the purpose of upgrading. G&G top tech internals look decent as well, externals less so. I am struggling to work out if that extra money is going to be worth it as well. The choice in high end guns in many ways I feel is harder than the entry price points. I am not sure for example if I want recoil, that strikes me as a feature that might impact my aim and make me less competitive.

[Monty]

TM direction for the bolt locking and recoil functions combined with the "magic" hop up and famous accuracy. Its obviously expensive and with the special magazines and with the SCAR that also means special pouches it really starts to add up in extra cost. But it does appear in every way they are quality guns all be it with plastic externals in some cases (where the real steel isn't plastic).

 

Marui recoil's aren't made from plastic, they are metal and plastic where the real steel would be.

[M_P]

Yeah all recoil rifles are the right materials in the right places.

[Sam_G]

I have 2 recoils. I would not have any other AEG now.

 

I sold my VFC SR-16 which is infact more expensive than a TM CQBR from new. SR = £510 CQBR = £485

 

Yes the mags are more expensive but it is worth it.

 

If you go for the M4 platform you have a wider choice of possible guns. The SCAR-L, M4 Socom, M4 Sopmod, CQBR, 416 all use the same mags.

 

I will be adding the 416 to my list in the summer.

[jcheeseright]

I am struggling with this choice myself. I have been considering a 416 or a SCAR H and in both cases been looking strongly in the TM direction for the bolt locking and recoil functions combined with the "magic" hop up and famous accuracy. Its obviously expensive and with the special magazines and with the SCAR that also means special pouches it really starts to add up in extra cost. But it does appear in every way they are quality guns all be it with plastic externals in some cases (where the real steel isn't plastic).

 

I had been looking also at VFC but I have found the internals are often lacking in quality, they are very focussed on getting the externals and trades there rather than a really accurate high ROF gun. Then there is KWA which also seems to do good externals and the internals are decent enough but most people seem to buy these two high end guns for the purpose of upgrading. G&G top tech internals look decent as well, externals less so. I am struggling to work out if that extra money is going to be worth it as well. The choice in high end guns in many ways I feel is harder than the entry price points. I am not sure for example if I want recoil, that strikes me as a feature that might impact my aim and make me less competitive.

 

TM Recoil guns are metal where the real gun is metal... obviously though they're not made of steel like the real thing. The recoil also is NOT going to put your aim off, it's nowhere near as powerful as even .22, more of a recoil effect than actual recoil. That said, it is still extremely satisfying!

[Ian_Gere]

to add to that, no one NEEDS a MOSFET, heavy gauge wiring, or any of that other shit.

No one needs all the hassle that can arise from a GBBR either, eh James? But you no doubt enjoy the crisp trigger response. Heavy gauge wiring, Deans, and a MOSFET is how to get closer to that with an AEG.

 

Of course seeing as how you want an M4, you could go for a BTC Chimera in place of a simple power handling MOSFET (for V2 in stock @air-lab.co.uk i believe) which allows you to not just pre-cock so shots have the same trigger response as a spring sniper, but also to programme the ROF which is then handled as a series of crisp semi-auto shots but with just a few milliseconds between them - apparently it sounds and feels quite different from ordinary full auto - £90 though and not entirely simple to fit. You would still want heavy gauge wiring and Deans to get the best out of it mind...

[Unrustle_Thine_Jimmies]

If a gun was truly high end it would come with heavy gauge wiring,Deans & some sort of basic mosfet to allow you to use non shit discharge lipos. Gearbox wise as long as AOE is corrected than that's even better. Lonex already do AOE correction OOTB and G&P come with deans. Higher tier lonex also comes with solver plated ultra low resistance wiring throughout and some JGs I;ve seen recently came with very thick wiring. So manufacturers are getting close to becoming proper high end but It's just not really there. It;s funny how often lower end guns tend to come with things that higher end guns don;t have. We often pay more for the brand name and good externals. Sadly airsoft manufacturing does not have any set standard,hell,most companies have trouble keeping tolerances proper between batches so that shows the sad little state our industry is in. Hence,lots of DIY stuff about to get the gun coming with stuff it should have in the first place.

[dex]

I would agree that most high end AEGs are compromised to some degree. It really depends on your expectations and what you want out of the gun and whether you are a tech/upgrader. One thing is for sure - you really are spoilt for choice if you have the budget for a high end AEG. Recoil models aside, if you want a no compromise gun - you need to get a custom job.

[BrightCandle]

I guess some things are easier to get in the future than others. If a gun comes with gears that aren't fantastic or cylinders, lacks a tight bore barrel and the hop up unit that sucks then all of that is usually easy to replace. The externals can to some extent be upgraded as well, but by and large you are going to be stuck with the core of the externals (receiver and such) unless you want to get properly mody with your hacksaw. Equally its not really possible to reasonably add blow back and bolt catch features to a gun later on.

 

Good externals, compatible internals and blowback + empty bolt catch hold are basically what you want to buy for and then you can fix the barrel, hop up and gears if they aren't up to scratch. That is currently my thinking on what to do.

[jcheeseright]

just to add to that though, there's no reason why you NEED to upgrade any of those things, in my experience it's very difficult to upgrade the hop-up on a marui gun... not because it's a hard part to replace, but because it's a hard part to improve upon. Stock barrel likewise is very very good and in order to get a true 'upgrade' you're looking at a prometheus barrel... v expensive! The stock gears are more than strong enough to pull back the stock spring for ever without failure, my old marui M4 ran for 10 years with zero maintenance and is probably still going fine now.

 

If you want to upgrade the spring to squeeze more FPS out of one, then you might as well change the gears while you've got the gearbox open but otherwise just leave it!

[BrightCandle]

A lot of the guys in the USA seem to be really big on the Miracle barrel but seems more people in the UK are choosing prometheus tight bores. Why is that?

 

I would personally just buy a TM if it wasn't for the low FPS they come with out of the box. I don't really want to be playing on a 350 fps field at <300, that strikes me as quite a big disadvantage in range. Putting a M100-110 spring in there in place of its usual I am hearing isn't a good idea with the TM's either as they aren't really up to the additional strength, so then I am into a gearbox change and presumably cylinder and piston head as well to cope with the extra strain. Then I may have messed up the TM magic by replacing so many core parts and I have just upgraded the gun that shouldn't need upgrading. I know FPS isn't everything but being 50 fps down on the competition out in the woods is going to loose 10m or so at least.

[M_P]

A lot of the people in the US are morons

 

But seriously I dunno, prommy and pdi are generally regarded as best over here and do the job.

 

A tm recoil shooting at 290 has as much range as any other gun, usually more.

A tm will take an m100 easily, eagle make them especially for the recoils

[jcheeseright]

A lot of the guys in the USA seem to be really big on the Miracle barrel but seems more people in the UK are choosing prometheus tight bores. Why is that?

 

I would personally just buy a TM if it wasn't for the low FPS they come with out of the box. I don't really want to be playing on a 350 fps field at <300, that strikes me as quite a big disadvantage in range. Putting a M100-110 spring in there in place of its usual I am hearing isn't a good idea with the TM's either as they aren't really up to the additional strength, so then I am into a gearbox change and presumably cylinder and piston head as well to cope with the extra strain. Then I may have messed up the TM magic by replacing so many core parts and I have just upgraded the gun that shouldn't need upgrading. I know FPS isn't everything but being 50 fps down on the competition out in the woods is going to loose 10m or so at least.

You're making a lot of assumptions, FPS as you've stated isn't everything and the miracle barrel is just a tightbore with a little platform for the BB to sit on. No test so far has proved that they're actually any better than a standard barrel.

[jcheeseright]

Also, if you really must improve the FPS of a TM recoil chuck a good 6.03 tightbore and a bearing spring guide in and it'll bump you to 330 ish on average.

[Lambster]

I'm now saving for a TM CQBR because of this thread. I'll tell the Mrs it's all your faults!

 

I've been looking around for these and a few places say they're discontinued. Is that true? I've also seen reviews from 2010 for them. I thought it would be relatively new. I'm surprised I've not seen anyone selling them on the forums tbh.

 

Anyway, I'm getting one of these, 2 of the batteries and 2 magazines.

[Mack]

I'm now saving for a TM CQBR because of this thread. I'll tell the Mrs it's all your faults!

 

I've been looking around for these and a few places say they're discontinued. Is that true? I've also seen reviews from 2010 for them. I thought it would be relatively new. I'm surprised I've not seen anyone selling them on the forums tbh.

 

Anyway, I'm getting one of these, 2 of the batteries and 2 magazines.

 

Im after a 416D now aswell lol

[Lambster]

Im after a 416D now aswell lol

I've also changed to the 416D.

 

Check this out:

[Mack]

I've also changed to the 416D.

 

Check this out:

Im a ball hair away from pushing the buy it now button on a Sopmod. Dont know what to go for!

[Lambster]

Don't get a 416D, purely because I want one and don't want everywhere to be sold out when I'm able to buy it!

[Lord_Metile]

I've also changed to the 416D.

 

Check this out:

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