Help!!! - High speed/ fast trigger response setup

[CaptainDumbass]

So I mostly pay Woodland and CQB when skirmishing. It's been a year since I brought my scar and I've had many problems with it but they've usually been fixed. But now I'm fed up of wasting money on silly fixes. I've decided to completely disassemble my gearbox and start afresh. Forget about my barrel on my hop up unit I just want to concentrate on my gearbox:

I want to be able to have internals which allow me to have a faster rate of fire and a faster trigger response (so my gun is perfect for CQB and woodland) so firstly I purchased a 9.9v LiFePo battery, wired my gun up to deans and got a set of shims ready for my new gears. I was told by a few people to get to high torque motor and a high-speed set of gears. Do I keep my 16:1 gears or buy some 13:1 gears or something else? Also what other upgrades do I need to look into purchasing/ performing on current parts? And is there anything else I need to take into consideration?

Thanks!

[Hendy]

Sort of the same situation want to upgrade my m4 but have no clue where to start I just know I would like to have a high rof and better trigger response and to shorten the barrel

[Unrustle_Thine_Jimmies]

High torque motor-like an SHS HT and 13:1 gears are a good balance. To get good trigger response,you will have to have good shimming,so no screechy bollocks in the gun,most important is shimming the bevel gear to the pinion,this is the biggest source of screech and the biggest PITA to shim. Angle of engagement in the piston is also crucial. To get good response,you will have to do mods for a smooth running gun.

 

Good quality wiring & deans connectors will help,you want the current to travel as quickly and efficiently as possible.

 

To protect the trigger contacts I recommend a MOSFET, I used an ASG one in my AK build and it was pretty nice.

 

Refer to the threads and youtube channels I've linked in your status post,like AirsoftTutorials. Great guides on shimming and AOE correction.

[RR01]

If you want fast trigger response use an ASCU V3 to replace your standard gearbox trigger contacts. I've got an ASCU V2 in my M16 DMR and the trigger response is more than fast enough, as well as being far shorter than the standard trigger pull. Not sure if that will work in a SCAR though, unless it has a V2 rear wired gearbox.

[sp00n]

When I get round to rebuilding my mp5k with a new 8mm gearbox, I have a lonex a2 motor to go with my shs 13:1 gear set

[Ian_Gere]

SHS gearbox parts seem to be the best you can get for sensible money - I'm using their 16:1's in my G36 (my thinking was not to increase the ROF that much, just to make up for the difference between 7.4V LiPo and 8.4V VP NiMh but TBH I wish I had gone with their 13:1's now). Anyhoo, they sound sweet and there doesn't appear to be any signs of funky wear patterns - I have done my best to shim properly, but iirc the idea is to get the spur gear as far left (low when the box is open) as possible and i think my G36 was the one where I had to put quite a bit of shimming on the left side spur to get it to mesh with the sector quietly (SRC GB shell). I favour SHS shims too and use the copper ones on the inside, against the gears themselves, of all of them, not just the bevel gear. I've also started putting a dab of Copperslip on the inside of the bearing for the shims to slide against.

 

For bearings I'm in love with Kanzen. I haven't even managed to get a set of their top flight ceramic ones yet, I'm just talking about their steel ones - drop of Abbey silicone oil in each. GB slathered in CT-2 Teflon Grease (which since it is silicone grease with teflon suspended in it, is also great for inside the cylinder/on the piston O-ring).

 

I'm planning to upgrade all my guns to 11.1V LiPo's and AB MOSFET's, to use sheer voltage and current delivery capability for trigger response, but stick with medium gear ratios and heavier aluminium pistons and piston heads to keep the ROF down. 1st will be Phatima my AKS-74U - she's way hectic on a Turnigy 11.1V 1300mAh 25C constant 50C burst LiPo, but fires full auto even on semi - I believe the way forward to stop that is the Active Breaking MOSFET - I have 1 off fleabay to test, but I suspect that as soon as they're back in stock I'll be going with Gate Pico SSR AB ones, b/c I was well impressed by the Pico SSR v1 I had (until I cooked it by short circuit doh!). She's in bits awaiting some new metalwork so that'll be happening shortly.

 

Having seen a few anti-reversal latches with worrying looking wear patterns I've come round to the idea that the hardened ones may actually be useful and for higher ROF those steel cut off levers probably are the plan.

[CaptainDumbass]

Cheers fellas, I called up my local shop to see if they could help me and they've told me exactly the same as what you've all said, I'm gunna buy a guarder infinite high torque motor, shs 13:1 gears, wire my gun to deans and spend my entire Saturday shimming the gearbox as best as I possibly can, then wire it up to my new battery and see how it all runs!

 

What sort of MOSFET would you all recomend? I've been looking at getting this then hard wiring it if needed but I'm not sure wether it's worth the money: http://www.airsoftworld.net/new-2014-burst-wizard-king-kong-super-2-mosfet.html

[sp00n]

if your good with a soldering iron, you could make your own mosfet i did and it works very very well admittedly it is basic and dosnt any of the features others have etc

[Ian_Gere]

I have tried using a BWKK v1 and it is so complicated that I dunno if it is busted and, if so, whether it came that way or i did it, or whether it's me doing something totally mongish. I had it properly hardwired and it was fine, but my LiPo wasn't fully charged so the LiPo alarm function kicked in - great So I put it on charge and fitted an 8.4V NiMh in the meantime to carry on fiddling with it - uh-er! Our survey says: 89% of people when questioned said their gats preferred MOSFET's working as per the instructions.

 

The LiPo alarm would not stop even though I followed the factory reset instructions to the letter (i think) several times and this carried on when I reconnected the charged LiPo. Anyway I ended up rewiring the switch as per stock and using the FET plug'n'play for 4rnd burst fire, which it did do perfectly, however the crispness of improved trigger response was gone. It's all a bit hazy in my memory now, but i fucked around with it a fair bit to no avail, but then i'd also fucked around with it a fair bit before the alarm 1st went off (and i'm buggered if i can remember what i did) so maybe i did balls it up... The thing is I'm pretty sure i'm not that much of a dick, it's just that my meds make it almost impossible for me to remember details of new experiences unless they are linked to a degree of stronger emotion than general bimbling along / or linked to memories I already have, but that does mean i'm in no position to go whinging for my money back.

 

I realise this is a new version so maybe it's better, but I'd want a squint at the instructions and version improvements before I'd risk it again. On the plus side, while the BWKK works properly it is the dogs' for bells and whistles. You can use it to reduce the rate of full-auto fire without changing the trigger response of the 1st shot, which function I would love to have got working. Gate Pico SSR MOSFET's I can heartily recommend though. There's a new version of those too and an AB, which is on my to buy list.

[CaptainDumbass]

Thanks for the great advice fellas, i really appreciate it.

One final question: all the parts have arrived (apart from the mosfet) and im ready to instal them, i was just curious to know if the high torque motor and 13:1 gears will affect my FPS at all?

Cheers!

[Unrustle_Thine_Jimmies]

Nope,FPS is affected by Air seal in the cylinder,hop air seal and spring. Drive train does not affect power.

 

What parts did you end up going for?

[CaptainDumbass]

Thats what i thought but i thought id double check, i am at the point of 340 FPS and was concerned id go over my locals limit!

I Went for a 9.9 LiFePO 1600mah Battery, bought some deans connectors, SHS Super Shooter 13:1 Gears and an SHS Ultra High Torque motor. Ive also done some tweaking and tuning to my other gearbox parts (polishing my cylinder and cylinder head and slightly swiss cheasing my piston for example) so hopefully ill be shooting around 30rps. I hope to invest in a mosfet soon!

[Hendy]

Thats what i thought but i thought id double check, i am at the point of 340 FPS and was concerned id go over my locals limit!

I Went for a 9.9 LiFePO 1600mah Battery, bought some deans connectors, SHS Super Shooter 13:1 Gears and an SHS Ultra High Torque motor. Ive also done some tweaking and tuning to my other gearbox parts (polishing my cylinder and cylinder head and slightly swiss cheasing my piston for example) so hopefully ill be shooting around 30rps. I hope to invest in a mosfet soon!

Any chance you have links to where you bought them?

[Ian_Gere]

Hmmmm... I'm not sure that going for an Ultra High Torque Motor was such a good idea. I think High Torque would have done better because it would spin faster.

[CaptainDumbass]

Packages arrived today, turns out it was a standard high torque and not an ultra high torque *phew*

@Hendy, I was lucky and got them all brand new off people selling them on the forums. Sorry bud.

[Muppetdaze]

Will heavier pistons and piston heads work to keep the ROF down in this way?

 

Surely less current to the motor would do this with less wear on everything?

 

I tried to use 'quote ' Ian_Gere, but I can't see how that would work

 

you're using a mosfet for trigger response, presumably the right motor,

 

all the heavier gear would do is surely to add more wear?

 

if you have a mosfet and highspeed trigger how would loading the rest gain you anything?

 

confused I am .

[chris555]

I recommend airsoft-club.com for shs parts not had a problem yet with shipping.

[Lozart]

Will heavier pistons and piston heads work to keep the ROF down in this way?

 

Surely less current to the motor would do this with less wear on everything?

 

I tried to use 'quote ' Ian_Gere, but I can't see how that would work

 

you're using a mosfet for trigger response, presumably the right motor,

 

all the heavier gear would do is surely to add more wear?

 

if you have a mosfet and highspeed trigger how would loading the rest gain you anything?

 

confused I am .

 

Holy necro post Batman!

 

So anyway - yes if you are trying to create a high speed setup for a high rate of fire then the piston/piston head ideally would be lightweight items (swiss cheesed piston, remove the bearings from the back of the piston head etc). But talking of confusion I'm struggling to see where you're getting the idea that he was fitting heavier parts?

[Muppetdaze]

The fact he clearly states it, look for the line starting

 

"I'm planning to upgrade all my guns to 11.1..........

 

this is why I was confused,

 

he ( Ian Gere) posted it on 22 January 2014 , it's the 6th post in this thread

[Lozart]

The fact he clearly states it, look for the line starting

 

"I'm planning to upgrade all my guns to 11.1..........

 

this is why I was confused,

 

he ( Ian Gere) posted it on 22 January 2014 , it's the 6th post in this thread

 

Ah right, yes I see what you're referring to now.

 

I think he's using a lower ratio gear set and was concerned that lightening the whole power train would result in the RoF going TOO high and causing pre-engagement. You're correct in what you're saying that if you're trying to produce an all out high speed build then heavy parts will increase wear slightly but it depends on how you get there. If it's a low powered spring with a high speed motor then yes I'd agree but in this case he was using a high torque motor to get the same result so the weight of a standard piston and aluminium head wouldn't make so much difference because of the extra power available from the motor. There's a number of ways of skinning this particular cat though!

As far as wear goes, high speed builds will wear quite quickly anyway so the minimal additional wear from a heavier piston isn't going to make much difference if the whole thing is lubed and shimmed properly.

 

I'm planning to upgrade all my guns to 11.1V LiPo's and AB MOSFET's, to use sheer voltage and current delivery capability for trigger response, but stick with medium gear ratios and heavier aluminium pistons and piston heads to keep the ROF down. 1st will be Phatima my AKS-74U - she's way hectic on a Turnigy 11.1V 1300mAh 25C constant 50C burst LiPo, but fires full auto even on semi - I believe the way forward to stop that is the Active Breaking MOSFET - I have 1 off fleabay to test, but I suspect that as soon as they're back in stock I'll be going with Gate Pico SSR AB ones, b/c I was well impressed by the Pico SSR v1 I had (until I cooked it by short circuit doh!). She's in bits awaiting some new metalwork so that'll be happening shortly.

 

 

How did it turn out Ian?

[CaptainDumbass]

 

Holy necro post Batman!

 

 

Bastard! Got there before me!

[Ian_Gere]

It was very nice until the last time i rebuilt it and it got jammed on semi-auto only. For the life of me i couldn't work out what the problem was and she's been sat in a crate dismantled for a couple of months now! I just haven't got round to sorting her out - other projects have taken up what time my illhealth has left me available for tinkering...

 

My primary reason for doing it the way i did was to use high voltage to get fast trigger response, particularly in the initial milliseconds after trigger pull, but I didn't want a really high ROF, because it's just a waste of BB's and, unless you do go for the 30+ per second builds which are genuinely intimidating to face, you don't actually get any advantage in game. I'm not sure that the intimidation factor is worth the hassle of constantly breaking down/wearing out parts...

 

Of course a heavier piston and piston head affect trigger response too, in as much as more weight = more inertia to overcome when the motor begins to turn, but in the first few milliseconds the motor draws a lot more current than during the rest of the cycle anyway and it is this, the ability of the electrical system to deliver current quickly, which is the primary limiting factor, regardless of the weight of the piston+head. This is why I also choose Turnigy Nano Tech batteries, since their sustained current delivery is 25C but their burst output is 50C.

 

I'm about to do a similar thing to an RPK which is due to arrive tomorrow, but this time i am going to use a BW3 MOSFET and modify the gearbox for a pretty fast cycle rate, but then program the MOSFET to make the ROF similar to the real steel. It also can be programmed to pre-cock, for instant trigger response. The reason i still want a fast cycle rate, even though that will no longer be necessary for fast trigger response, is because the way the BW3 changes the ROF is to introduce a timed delay between the shots when full-auto is selected, so it's like a series of semi-auto shots fired very quickly one after another. Apparently it sounds really cool: stuttery like real steel rather than like a sewing machine