Mesh Goggles

[SgtTalbert]

Probably should just change them...

 

But I have noticed 3 different dents in the right eye lens

 

Is this still 'safe' or shall I change them?

 

Cheers,

[Airsoft-Ed]

Personally I'd stick with them, but you obviously have doubts otherwise you wouldn't ask. You can get a set off ebay for as little as £3, so you might as well replace them to be on the safe side, no?

[Silent7Sniper7]

They'll be perfectly safe, I shot mine with a 400fps AEG point blank & they're going strong

[TheFull9]

How safe do you want an utterly vital organ to be? I've sat down before and done my very best to imagine what life might be like with only one eye (or worse, blind) and frankly I have no problem spending money on quality eye pro.

 

People have said I'm over dramatic when it comes to this subject on many occasions, but if you value being able to see then you buy the very best protective eyewear you can, and you replace it if it shows signs of structural weakness. Bearing in mind the ridiculously litigious, sensationalist-media society we live in today: If something did go wrong, do you want to be sat there half blind, all the while knowing you got your local site shut down and likely put the continued existence of the game on even shakier ground than before? Yes that's absolutely worst case scenario, but that's what you need to be looking at when it comes to safety matters.

 

Not aiming this at anyone here, but all too often I see guys scrimping on the safety gear side of things by purchasing some god awful china-made wire mesh goggles just so they can afford another cheap laser to make their gun 'cooler'. Not only is that attitude dangerous but it's just plain selfish.

[Deva]

Couldn't have said it better really. It's the first thing you need to think about. It isn't drilled into you as much as at Paintball events unfortunately. Airsoft could possibly take a thing or two from it in that respect.

[SooGoo]

I agree i have two pairs of ballistic rated glasses and also mesh goggles that cost me bout 20 quid.

 

For me losing sight whether it be partially or fully would be hard to cope with.

[bigshep]

I think it depends upon who made the eye protection in the first place. I have had my heroshark mesh hit dozens of times over the last couple of years and I have had no dings/dents or scratches in either the outer coating or the inner coating. If it was a set of ACM mesh then I would definately change them, and to be honest if my HS mesh dented I would also change it. I have got a mesh face mask, but that is different as it's there to help stop the bb hitting my face, not make sure the bb does not hit my my eyes.

 

So basically I would change them, for £20-25 its daft not to.

[Andy1]

i know its not exactly related but the logic can be applied , used to ride a mbike , when i first passed my test a £50 cheapo crash helmet on a 125cc bike was fine but as i moved up the bike food chain someone pointed out to me the weakest link in all my clothing was a £50 crash hat on a 170mph bike i only needed it pointed out once and bought a spangly arai helmet. i suppose what im saying is Mr CKinnerly has a vital point , only you can answer, how precious are your eyes to you ; oh almost forgot my point if you drop a crash helmet from about 1m you should replace it. and a decent crash hat is upward of £300. Its to do with structural integraty (could be the same with eyeware)

[Alexb111]

Safety first but my first reaction would be to put them on the ground, surround it and your barrel with towels and fire 2/3 rounds in close proximity to the damage. If the damage gets noticeably worse or it breaks replace it and don't even risk it because its just going to get worse until the day it breaks.

If not you can be pretty sure its capable of holding up a point blank shot in the next skirmish.

 

Although as said safety first and its not like their that expensive if they'd save your eye(s). Having said that your not going to loose anything by testing the damaged ones...

[Ian_Gere]

I use China-made wire mesh goggles most often from my variety of kit options. I've tested them by firing @380odd fps into them from 1 inch away and they haven't suffered. I've been shot in the face wearing them during skirmishes plenty of times, by snipers too, so possibly @higher velocities than I've personally fired into them, and I've not had any problems whatsoever. Also they are nice and big, so when combined with my wire mesh half-face, offer great protection all around my eyes too.

 

Frankly, there's an awful lot of brand-snobbery involved here and prejudicial stereotyping of Chinese products. What makes me laugh is that many, if not all, of the components of more expensive brands are manufactured in China!

 

The main reason I prefer my wire mesh goggles to sheet-mesh, or whatever it's called (you know, a sheet with loads of holes punched in it), is because they interfere with my vision the least. Obviously lenses would be even better, but so far every type I've tried (even an anti-mine visor attached to my MK6 helmet) fogs up as soon as I get hot from the exercise. I believe that the risk of running into something, tripping over something, or falling into a hole and impaling myself on branches/rubble/etc. is far more credible than the infinitesimal chance that my Chinese wire mesh eye wear may fail, so the option which I can see through best is the best choice.

 

Finally, I believe that if anyone on the UK airsoft scene does get blinded as a result of goggles failing, if those goggles are China-made that will be the story, ie "Chinese goggles are useless - spend more money on the same thing assembled in a 3rd world sweatshop or you'll be next", whereas if the goggles are not Chinese, it will be the whole sport being dangerous that's the story. I'm sure you all know what "over-engineered" means, so I'll ask you all to please have a good look at and think about the realities involved here before expressing an opinion based mostly on that received from other people, prejudice and hearsay.

[TheFull9]

There's absolutely zero 'snobbery' going on in here thanks, there's a concern for people's safety and the continuation of this hobby. It doesn't have to cost a lot of money to buy quality eye pro, so that eliminates the concept of anyone implying that they're somehow better as a person because they spent loads of cash on goggles. That's absolutely the last thing an airsoft 'snob' is going to beat their chest about. I could maybe understand it if this were a topic full of people going "ooh buy a systema, everything else is junk" or droning on to everybody about how much better their Eagle Industries MOLLE gear is, you do sometimes see that at sites/on forums; but eye pro? Sorry but no, that's by far the least 'cool' part of a loadout and one which new players consistently skimp on, despite it being the most important piece of gear we all own.

 

If Smith Optics/WileyX/whoever do produce components in china for example, that still doesn't matter, they have actually quality checks in place. When people say 'ACM' they are very specifically referring to the sort of ultra-cheap stuff found on EBB etc which is produced at absolute minimum cost in factories who don't exist as part of a well known, recognisable company that could be brought to account if their product fails. These places have absolutely zero QC process, which is why they shouldn't be recommended for safety related gear. It doesn't matter if one/five/ten pairs of their mesh goggles are found to be up to the task, the next pair that rolls off the line may very well not be because the ultra low grade metals they use had a lump of impurities melted in to that particular batch and nobody at that factory's going to check to find out. You can never make any guarantee with such things, whereas western based companies that actually operate within the boundaries of ANSI standards etc and supply gear to the military have very stringent criteria to meet; they put the systems in place to ensure their products meet such criteria because if one of their items fails they know the story will get out and they'll lose business from the public, or worse, lucrative military contracts. Some guy churning out goggles for a no-name operation knows he's safe because it doesn't matter if the end product is lacking, it's not going to be traced back to him when the brand label on the item is the same as 100 other factories that supply airsoft-park or whoever.

 

End of the day, the stories are out there. A little while back on Arnies I read a story posted by a guy over in the far east who knew another young player who'd bought the cheapest ACM mesh eye pro he could. This lad used these things for a while and whether it was through being stored away for a long time or used excessively in a very hot, humid environment I'm not 100%, but either way his eye pro started rusting/corroding (as super cheap impure metal eventually will). He then took a hit to these goggles from a bolt action sniper; entirely unsurprisingly, the BB went right on through and though it didn't penetrate the eyeball from what I recall it caused some quite serious injury.

 

If anybody wants to think less of me or people with the same view point as me because I (and others) advocate players spend less money on tatty lasers and more on safety gear then please, please do carry on, I'm really quite happy to accept that negative opinion being leveled at me. I'd 100000000x prefer to have a few people out there think I'm a boring c***. I'm a grown adult and I can deal with that, what some young lad out there who might read my posts cannot and should not have to potentially deal with is going through life with only one fully functioning eye. Anyone wants to call me boring/OTT H&S obsessive or any other such immature names I literally could not possibly care any less.

[Ian_Gere]

Has anyone called you boring/OTT H&S obsessive or any other such "immature" names?

 

I'm surprised to lean that the corrodability (its a word now!) of metal is related to its price. I always thought that steel corrodes unless it's coated with paint/zinc/plastic etc. Of course it could've been 1 of these magnesium/steel/fcuk-knows-what alloys which wouldn't rust unless it was badly made, but that would only be used for sheet mesh, because wire mesh, being made out of er... wire, is obviously going to be cheaper to make from the existing steel product which is used in all sorts of applications.

 

Mine have a thin layer of paint and I'm sure that if I scratch it and leave them in a damp environment for a few days, they will rust. This has nothing to do with their country of origin of course, nor the cost to the end user. However something you appear to be ignoring in your tale of woe, CK, is that anyone who uses rusty goggles is clearly a dick and if it wasn't airsoft that got them, it'd be something else and sooner rather than later. Perhaps it's just me, but I have an almost obsessive willingness to look after the stuff that saves me from injury - I clean my boots for eg and look after the straps on my elbow & knee pads, but I contend that you don't have to be at all obsessive to at least inspect your eyewear before use.

 

Before I move on from metal and cost, lets consider some possibilities. Is it cheaper for a factory which makes some flavour of sheet mesh for a western company to make goggles out of (Do western militaries use mesh goggles, btw? I've never seen 'em if they do.) to produce mesh that has a number of uses of which airsoft is probably not the largest market, or to produce mesh specifically for airsoft? Do we believe that it is even financially viable to produce verified quality mesh only for airsoft? Now then, do we believe that it is cheaper for somebody who wants to make airsoft goggles and undercut the competition to order the self same stuff that their competitors use and minimise costs such as shareholder dividends, advertising, retail overheads etc., ie for the factory to increase production to meet demand, or for somebody to build a whole new factory in which they can make a crap product specifically for airsoft (because if it was so crap as to fail under less than 2 Joules load, it would be no use for the more common uses of mesh like filters etc.)?

 

Has anyone here ever had or witnessed any eye protection fail? I ask because, just as an unbranded product can be difficult to trace, an unverifiable story is worth preciisely nothing in support of an argument. I ask you all again to consider what "overengineered" means and, if you have any doubts about the ability of painted wire mesh to withstand BB strikes at far higher velocities than we're interested in, test it yourself.

 

On the somewhat sidetracking (word too... now!) question of what snobbery engulfs within its shameful, and thus never to be admitted to, purview, I've heard people going on about their Hero Shark Bolle goggles in precisely the same way my youngest sister refers to her, admittedly tasty, beamer...

[TheFull9]

Has anyone called you boring/OTT H&S obsessive or any other such "immature" names?

 

Not here no, wasn't trying to imply that. But they have and I like to try and head that sort of thing off at the pass, as it were.

 

I'm surprised to lean that the corrodability (its a word now!) of metal is related to its price. I always thought that steel corrodes unless it's coated with paint/zinc/plastic etc. Of course it could've been 1 of these magnesium/steel/fcuk-knows-what alloys which wouldn't rust unless it was badly made, but that would only be used for sheet mesh, because wire mesh, being made out of er... wire, is obviously going to be cheaper to make from the existing steel product which is used in all sorts of applications.

 

Mine have a thin layer of paint and I'm sure that if I scratch it and leave them in a damp environment for a few days, they will rust. This has nothing to do with their country of origin of course, nor the cost to the end user. However something you appear to be ignoring in your tale of woe, CK, is that anyone who uses rusty goggles is clearly a dick and if it wasn't airsoft that got them, it'd be something else and sooner rather than later. Perhaps it's just me, but I have an almost obsessive willingness to look after the stuff that saves me from injury - I clean my boots for eg and look after the straps on my elbow & knee pads, but I contend that you don't have to be at all obsessive to at least inspect your eyewear before use.

 

Thing is, I see filthy, rotting boots and freighed straps on gear etc all the time, the majority of airsofters don't have the mentality of taking good care of their kit because nobody's ever drilled that in to them. I mean how many kids ever polish a leather shoe these days? The whole culture in society is about 'disposable' everything, buy cheap, then chuck it away, which doesn't really work for safety kit I don't think. Personally I only go through that sort of maintenance cycle with kit because I had it hammered in to me during the long time I spent in training. I absolutely agree that everybody should check these things, but the issue is they unfortunately don't. I don't think it's fair to say that because someone is ignorant they somehow are deserving of an injury. Because, if anything, (ignoring the actual injured party here) as and when someone does get hurt it'll most likely get out and have repercussions for all of us, which nobody wants.

 

I see a lot of folks on forums get offended by proxy because someone else doesn't like/recommend the kit/guns/whatever they own, I'm guilty of it myself at some point I'm sure. But the longer I spend on airsoft forums the more I become aware of how many people just lurk and don't post. I go to games and people say "oh you posted up about this, I think XYZ" or they ask me about my youtube videos or message me on facebook about a picture of something, and I'm sure it happens a lot more to other people who are actually well known amongst the community. So I really just feel that when we leave these posts here, we should only encourage people to be as safe as they can possibly be, which includes buying the very best safety kit they can possibly afford; primarily eye pro.

 

I really wish I knew where to find the photos and I'm going to look entirely not-credible now, but a while ago somewhere on Arnies did a test & posted up pictures of a cheap sansei/standard rental type mesh mask and even their mid-powered AEG came very close to penetrating at close range, a bolt action punched right on through with one shot. That's simply no good because in a skirmish it's obviously quite possible for some new player with a 500 FPS clone sniper rifle to mess up and shoot someone at close range, definitely seen that happen. Some of the chinese mesh is fine no doubt about it, but if some newbie buys a mask that's truly uber-mega-cheap with super thin and weak metal and just not safe, they likely won't test it before using it in game because they're too busy running around shining their predator-style triple RIS mounted lasers at mirrors/pint glasses and telling their CoD mates about how cool it is. Then you have a potential for someone to lose an eye come skirmish day, that's just not gonna happen with an ESS lens that's proven to stop IED shrapnel and shotgun loads. As long as people do test out whatever they're planning to use and give it a really good check over then great, it should be just fine, I just wish there a way to make 100% sure that every player did in fact do that. That's the main crux of the matter really.

[NickM]

Hero shark mesh googles are on sale at Circuit Airsoft, CA are closing down so getting rid of stock.

 

Hmm this is the link to their heroshark googles page but it appears that CA have been hacked.

http://www.circuitai...gory&path=24_68

 

Daggernose £23 from HeroShark direct, £14.40 from CA, most are about £4.50 cheaper

[Ian_Gere]

Not here no, wasn't trying to imply that. But they have and I like to try and head that sort of thing off at the pass, as it were.

Fair enough. I've been called allsorts of dick and i suspect that some of it is well deserved, but that doesn't mean that everything i, or anybody else whom may be personally labelled during the course of a discussion/argument, say/s is bollocks. Of course such ad hominem attacks are the first recourse of a poor rhetorician with a dodgy, or non-existent, argument

 

Thing is, I see filthy, rotting boots and freighed straps on gear etc all the time, the majority of airsofters don't have the mentality of taking good care of their kit because nobody's ever drilled that in to them. I mean how many kids ever polish a leather shoe these days? The whole culture in society is about 'disposable' everything, buy cheap, then chuck it away, which doesn't really work for safety kit I don't think.

Good points with which I have much sympathy, but not necessarily supportive to your position re: cheaper Chinese eye protection. I mean, if the prevailing attitude is to buy cheap and you are attempting to tell people to change their attitude and spend more money, how is that any better advice than my position which is that they should change their attitude towards looking after their kit? Bearing in mind that no matter how good their eye protection is/is purported to be/costs, if they don't look after it, they'll have problems sooner or later, whether that be due to failure or, more likely, it falling off and/or not being able to see through it very well.

 

What it boils down to is whether the more expensive options are inherently better and safer than their cheaper Chinese counterparts. I take issue with i) the generalisation ii) conflation of the 2 issues better and safer iii) the idea that the more expensive options are not, at least partly, Chinese in origin and, if no parts of them are, that whatever standards their parts are manufactured to do actually affect the safety of the finished product iv) the common notion that more expensive = better.

 

Personally I only go through that sort of maintenance cycle with kit because I had it hammered in to me during the long time I spent in training. I absolutely agree that everybody should check these things, but the issue is they unfortunately don't.

Well I didn't have much as a kid so, quite apart from the fact that my dad would use any excuse to be a violent, domineering monster and thus cleaning shoes, footy boots, shin pads, etc. had to be seen to be being done, I fully got it that I wasn't going to get any more if i knackered my stuff by neglect.

 

As a parenting strategy, I'd have to advise against the former, because it gets to a stage where the victim knows that they're going to be in trouble whether they do as they're told or not, so they have to find a dishonest strategy to avoid punishment rather than, for eg, make sure their boots are clean. I fully endorse the latter however, because there are few emotions more goading than embarrassment and none worse than shame. Once a child experiences the social stigma of being the one with the shabby kit and is told in no uncertain terms that the reason they cannot have new is because they are responsible for the state of the old, they will get it... obviously there has to be a way the kid can earn new and they do need reminding to look after it, but it really doesn't take beasting them!

 

I don't think it's fair to say that because someone is ignorant they somehow are deserving of an injury. Because, if anything, (ignoring the actual injured party here) as and when someone does get hurt it'll most likely get out and have repercussions for all of us, which nobody wants.

Well I didn't say they deserved to be injured, I said they are dicks who will get injured sooner or later, by airsofting or something else. Actually I do tend to think that they deserve it, so long as they have in fact had the dangers explained to them; I mean, if you run across a busy road without looking and get mowed down, is it anybody else's fault than your own? Wilfully ignoring advice which really ought not to have needed to be given, ie same thing... But I take your point; we could well all suffer for the negligence of one dick and also, just in case anyone gets the idea that i'm one of these hardline right wing types, just because i believe that ultimately we do deserve the hurts we take from our own stupidity, I don't actually want anyone to get hurt! I think that site owners should add a little about maintenance to their safety briefings and/or their website blurb, plus inspect noobs' eyewear before allowing it into the field and if anything seems dodgy to them, offer to test it with a 500 fps shot, or refuse to allow it in play.

 

I see a lot of folks on forums get offended by proxy because someone else doesn't like/recommend the kit/guns/whatever they own, I'm guilty of it myself at some point I'm sure. But the longer I spend on airsoft forums the more I become aware of how many people just lurk and don't post. I go to games and people say "oh you posted up about this, I think XYZ" or they ask me about my youtube videos or message me on facebook about a picture of something, and I'm sure it happens a lot more to other people who are actually well known amongst the community. So I really just feel that when we leave these posts here, we should only encourage people to be as safe as they can possibly be, which includes buying the very best safety kit they can possibly afford; primarily eye pro.

I know what you mean but, in this case, I'm not arguing from a sense of injured pride. I have a number of eyewear options - the Chinese wire mesh goggles I mentioned made by KHMountain, some unbranded Chinese sheet mesh shooting glasses, a "Killer" mask with heavy duty sheet mesh eyes, Chinese KHMountain sheet mesh goggles & plastic half-face combo, Bolle mirror lensed protective glasses, RUC issue riot helmet with visor & British army issue Anti Mine Visor for MK6 helmets. You'll note that the only type I am defending is the wire mesh goggles. This is not simply because they are my favourite (in fact they aren't, even though I wear them the most - why will become clear anon), but because I believe that this type offer the best compromise between ballistic safety and seeing-where-you're-going safety and the fact that they are manufactured in China makes no difference whatsoever because, even if KHMountain were some fly-by-night cowboy operation, the steel wire mesh used is way stronger than it need be for our purposes, so even if you got some from a poor quality batch of mesh, they would still be safe. Therefore I say that rather than saving up for your example, ESS Advancers, noobs should spend less on these which will not only serve them better but the difference will leave them with enough money to also get a wire mesh half-face mask to make sure they don't get any teeth shot out either and what's left after that can go towards some decent military boots (of which I'd say that, for absolute safety, again you're better off with £30 surplus German Para boots than £100+ Goretex gucci efforts).

 

I also have a Russian military issue respirator/scuba anti-fog pencil which works remarkably well, better than commercial spray for eg, but not perfectly and only for a short time - I hoping this is going to make it possible for me to wear an S10 respirator long enough to skirmish in. Also, as I complete my planned British Army 70's & 80's loadouts, I expect I'll buy the period correct issue eyewear. However, in both of these latter cases, if the anti-fogging isn't working well for me, I will take the lenses out and replace them with wire mesh, most probably, like almost everything these days, manufactured in China.

 

I agree that we ought to behave responsibly when we post here. However I believe that the blanket advice that more expensive equates to better is not just mistaken, but, potentially, counter-productive. As you suggested, many people have a use and throw away attitude towards their kit and it could well be that, having spent 3-5 times more on their eyewear than cheap Chinese imports cost, they simply assume that they can wear it until it's no longer fashionable and it will be safe, however they treat or store it. I'm sure you agree that this is not the right attitude to have towards kit that stops you being blinded...

 

I really wish I knew where to find the photos and I'm going to look entirely not-credible now, but a while ago somewhere on Arnies did a test & posted up pictures of a cheap sansei/standard rental type mesh mask and even their mid-powered AEG came very close to penetrating at close range, a bolt action punched right on through with one shot. That's simply no good because in a skirmish it's obviously quite possible for some new player with a 500 FPS clone sniper rifle to mess up and shoot someone at close range, definitely seen that happen. Some of the chinese mesh is fine no doubt about it, but if some newbie buys a mask that's truly uber-mega-cheap with super thin and weak metal and just not safe, they likely won't test it before using it in game because they're too busy running around shining their predator-style triple RIS mounted lasers at mirrors/pint glasses and telling their CoD mates about how cool it is. Then you have a potential for someone to lose an eye come skirmish day, that's just not gonna happen with an ESS lens that's proven to stop IED shrapnel and shotgun loads. As long as people do test out whatever they're planning to use and give it a really good check over then great, it should be just fine, I just wish there a way to make 100% sure that every player did in fact do that. That's the main crux of the matter really.

Fear not, mate, I decided to do some tests and photograph them myself:

 

I don't have my own chronograph so I can only report to you the FPS recorded @Skirmish Airsoft Mansfield and by AF-UK member Arden rather than show you, but for comparison I started by shooting an empty can of Lynx with my Ares L1A1 which chrono's @425 FPS steadily and also with my Palco Firepower CO2 Raider which shoots @386 FPS approx and loses power with each subsequent shot if they are fired one after another; this was the 2nd shot (the 1st went into my fireplace to check it was loaded lol). All shots were fired from approx 1 inch away but the L1A1 has almost 3 inches of open sided flash hider, but that shouldn't matter because the 425 FPS was measured with the same flash hider on...

 

 

As you can see, the L1A1 shot produced a deeper dent. What you probably can't discern from the photo is that up close it looks like it wasn't far from going right through the metal.

 

Before:

Pretty much the definition of "truly uber-mega-cheap with super thin and weak metal" - I bought them from this fleaBayer who now sells them even cheaper: £2.97

 

After:

The dent isn't as deep as either of those in the Lynx can and not surprising since the mesh is magnetic, thus some type of steel alloy, and even though the holes must weaken it, it's still stronger than the non-magnetic can which I suspect is simple recycled aluminium. I reckon that these are now compromised because, even if I press that dent out, it's a weak point which could give way in a 1:1Million freak accident and, because they are so cheap, I have no reason to run even that infinitesimal risk. However, be that as it may, the fact remains that the mesh didn't give way up against a shot which would almost never happen...

 

Before:

I bought these on 21/02/12, 1 item from my 1st order of own kit, and they've been shot plenty...

 

After:

I've circled the damage because it's not easy to tell that there is any, which pretty much rests the case for the defence, except to say that the last time I was @Skirmish (21/10/12)*, during 1 of the fort attack/defend scenarios, I got lit up in the face on full auto from above me about 4m away. IDK what FPS the lad's M4 was chrono'd at, but he didn't seem to be having any problems with range during the rest of the day so I'm guessing somewhere between 330-360. It put the sh!ts right up me and I yelped, but, as you can see, the hits didn't cause any damage to the goggles...

 

All Photos Above Uploaded with ImageShack.us

 

*

[Ian_Gere]

Hero shark mesh googles are on sale at Circuit Airsoft, CA are closing down so getting rid of stock.

 

Hmm this is the link to their heroshark googles page but it appears that CA have been hacked.

http://www.circuitai...gory&path=24_68

 

Daggernose £23 from HeroShark direct, £14.40 from CA, most are about £4.50 cheaper

I was @Brit Tac Barnsley a couple of weeks ago and one of the marshals made a point of telling everyone that there have been reports of Hero Shark mesh failing...

[Ian_Gere]

So I decided to test them little mesh glasses to destruction. I thought the 2nd shot would go through the mesh but it didn't. After the 3rd I thought "I should photograph the stages of destruction here.", but I'd already missed capturing shot 2 for posterity so I carried on... You'll just have to trust me!

 

Shot #5

 

This shot caused a break in the mesh, although you can't really see it, but it wasn't big enough for a BB to go through and it didn't. Instead it jammed firmly in place between the mesh, the plastic and the foam pad.

 

Shot #6

 

This shot went straight through by widening the earlier break and left the shot 5 BB in place.

 

Again, this was with my L1A1 @425 FPS and again from 1". I should have said before but these shots were all with 0.2g BB King BB's.

 

I conclude that, unless somebody is cheating by using a DMR AEG @425 FPS on full-auto rather than locked off to semi, which is the rule the sites that I've been to that allow such hot AEG's use, and they have an accident in which they shoot somebody extremely close, say less than a metre, rather than the usual snipers' minimum engagement distance of 20-30m, it is not at all likely that somebody wearing this make of eyewear could get hurt. In fact I'll go further and say that, even if those circumstances did arise, the BB's couldn't go through in just 6 hits because the target would be moving so the shots would not fall one behind the other and, even if a couple of the shots did hit in the same place, a lot of energy would be expended by the incoming BB shattering against the previous one, as they do when you shoot full auto at sticky targets...

 

I may get around to shooting them from a distance of 7m (the furthest I can shoot in my place) to see how many shots it does take, but for now I'm going with "too many for the victim to not move out of the way and/or the shooter realise their mistake and take the finger off the trigger".

 

After I've eaten I'm going to test the other side with my pistol (because I've just handed my AK off to a bloke to fettle it up for me), but I'll put 3 shots in the fireplace so the experiment will be about 370 FPS and descending, so an average of usual BB velocities. Ah, I should also note that my pistol's loss of power isn't linear, so really, as far as careful science goes, I'm up sh!t creek without a paddle, but I don't think it matters much because the issue is whether cheap eyewear is actually a menace during skirmishes, where there are also many variables.

 

Pics Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[Ian_Gere]

OK then... Starting with a pic of the undamaged eyewear, here is the right side tested to destruction with 0.2g BB's from 1" at woodland site average velocities straight out of the barrel:

 

 

 

Shot #1:

 

 

Shot #2:

 

 

Shot #3:

 

 

Shot #4:

 

 

Shot #5:

 

 

Shot #6:

 

 

Shot #7:

 

 

Shot #8:

 

 

Shot #9:

 

 

Shot #10:

 

 

As you can see, I didn't manage to get the 10 shots to hit exactly on top of each other. I suspect that if I'd shot from about 6", so I could've used the sight properly, I would have had a tighter grouping, but I believe that a BB's width here and there doesn't make any substantial difference to our concerns here. In fact this mesh doesn't stretch evenly, it makes the BB's fly off at all sorts of random angles and it is not until an area wider than a BB has reached its limit that it fails catastrophically allowing a shot through.

 

My conclusion therefore is that it is possible for this design of eyewear to fail during a skirmish and allow injury, but the circumstances would have to be exceptional. Many AEG's can fire 10 shots in less than a second and, sat here at home with the telly on, my lappy by my side, and a brew on the go, that these could fail in less than a second sounds distressingly fast, but then i thought about skirmishing... have you ever been The Medic? Crawling forward under fire to get hold of a team mate to medic them... then trying not to cheat by counting too fast... I say "kangaroo" in my head between numbers out loud to approximate a second... and with BB's bouncing off cover, people yelling info, comms in my ear... trying to locate where shots are coming from... working out my next move... am i going to be able to move... is the "patient" going to get shot again... should I forget medicing for a bit and return fire myself... are there enough of us close by that I can keep them all going without getting shot myself... a second is fcuking ages!

 

The only situations I can imagine that I could be shot in the face, with a grouping the size of a penny (see below), without moving for a whole second, is if I were unconscious or my head was trapped in position. I'm trying to imagine a credible set of circumstances where somebody would also be firing at my face with a rock steady aim, were either of those the case, or an accident which could jam the aim in position and result in accidental discharge. The ideas flying around my head seem just about feasible; ridiculous, but feasible. But then I start wondering about what degree of unlikelyhood we ought to consider just likely enough that we should take precautions against happening and, furthermore, how do the incredible odds against what i'm considering stack up against the odds of an accident knocking a set of ESS Advancers off your face just at the moment you get shot in the eye?

 

 

 

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Edit to add: I'm going to buy some more of these for £2.97 - they do interfere with vision a lot more than wire mesh, but because of that they act as shades that don't fog so they're good for bright daylight settings... except they make it harder to spot camouflaged people in foliage. There's a downside to all eye protection I've tried... bummer!

[bigshep]

may have to do this test with a set of heroshark mesh (got my brothers set here, sure he won't mind!) as well as the open interlaced type. Gives me something to do later this week while twidling my thumbs at home.

[Ian_Gere]

may have to do this test with a set of heroshark mesh (got my brothers set here, sure he won't mind!) as well as the open interlaced type. Gives me something to do later this week while twidling my thumbs at home.

Well Shep, assuming you weren't being sarcastic, if you don't mind testing kit to destruction, it would add to our definite knowledge as opposed to hearsay/rumour/myth and/or outright lies. Personally, I'm not willing to see how many shots it takes to get through my wire mesh goggles, because I'm 'kin using them too often!

 

It would be very interesting to see how many shots it does take to make Hero Sharks fail because, having tried a pair on myself, my guess is that their mesh, whilst wider gapped than either of my examples and thus seemingly more likely to allow a BB through after a little bending, is actually quite difficult to deform and may instead require a tighter concentration of hits to cause just one side of the hexagon of metal between one hole and its neighbours to fracture. If it proves to be the case that just one or two hot hits can actually fracture a single branch of mesh in that way, then that'll also be a catastrophic failure of my trust Whereas, if it takes a whole series as above, assuming that sale lasts long enough, I'll get some cheap.

 

I'm not prepared to buy Hero Sharks at their usual retail price however, because, whilst the slimmer construction and snug fit of the frame does provide better vision directly in front of you than wire mesh goggles, because you don't have to move your head as far down to glance in front of your feet (which I don't tend to do as often as I'd like in wire mesh goggles because I'm scanning for targets, which thus makes me more vulnerable to trip hazards), the plain fact of the matter is that for all their cool looks and cache, that heavy duty sheet mesh interferes with straight forward vision far more than interlaced wire mesh does and even though, in terms of light admitted, HS beat those cheap types I destroyed above, the HS mesh remains as an annoying honeycomb between you and the world, which the sheet mesh in the cheap ones doesn't!

[bigshep]

I will test them, as they arn't mine, and he won't be skirmishing for another 6-12 months and I am sure I can "loose" them by then (and then its only £20 to replace them). I want to test the open mesh you have as well as I am sure that they will move apart and let the bb through. So I will be testing both with 10 shots at the same place on each type.

 

I have not had the problems with the honeycomb issue. You see it when you first put it on, but a minute later you just don't see it anymore. Yes it may interefere more than interlace, but I would be concerned about movement within the interlace mesh under testing conditions. However i feel a lot safer in mesh than in shooting glasses, and if I didn't steam up my bolle gogles I would happily wear them all day instead.

[NickM]

If the interlaced mesh is anything like the face protector stuff there is very little chance it will move from a bb. My lower face mesh mask didnt quite fit and it took a bit of force to get it right, while the shape is now different none of the wires have slipped.

[Airsoft-Ed]

The issue we were warned about with regard to Hero Shark at Brit-Tac, was that the full face masks they do, like the Iron Man and skull type ones you see all the time etc, can have a tendency of failing around the lens edge. The actual mesh sheets are perfectly fine, it's the way that they're fastened into the mask that fails.

 

The lenses can just fall out of their frames if they're hit with enough force.

 

At least that's what we were warned of at Brit-Tac, it was nothing to do with BBs morphing the mesh out of space in a way that let a BB though.

[Ian_Gere]

The issue we were warned about with regard to Hero Shark at Brit-Tac, was that the full face masks they do, like the Iron Man and skull type ones you see all the time etc, can have a tendency of failing around the lens edge. The actual mesh sheets are perfectly fine, it's the way that they're fastened into the mask that fails.

 

The lenses can just fall out of their frames if they're hit with enough force.

 

At least that's what we were warned of at Brit-Tac, it was nothing to do with BBs morphing the mesh out of space in a way that let a BB though.

Thanks for clearing that up mate! Just goes to show how much I was listening, eh? I think I was trying to get the cable from my headset to PTT to sit behind the upper chest part of my vest loosely enough that I could move without it pulling at my ear but firmly enough that it wouldn't get caught on anything while i was crawling/creeping through foliage. Well, that's me off to get some then...

[bigshep]

I would imagine that would be an issue with lots of molded face masks then as they are fibre glass with the lenses crafted into the fibreglass. Still going to shoot my brothers today though for a side by side comparisson to the chinease cheapo mesh that was tested earlier.