Richard65

These is a site at Finmere or xsite over near High Wycome. Probably worth popping into Action Hobbies in MK as they should know about the local scene.

There were some posts a while ago about a Desert Eagle being sold as an air gun. On the seller website it just said you had to be over 18, face-to-face etc. They also sold airsoft pistols and stated that you needed UKARA or have it two-toned. I believe there is an upper power limit for air guns before they are considered firearms and any gun below a certain limit is classed as a toy (is it 1 joule?). Then the VCRA comes in because some of these `toys' look too realistic.l Probably this is just one of those loopholes that exist in the legislation but don'e think many air gun shops try to sell airsoft guns as air guns.

Would there be any problem with transporting the RIF for someone under 18? Say a 17 year old who has passed their driving test and borrow a RIF for a skirmish.

If you painted a gun bright pink with yellow flowers all over would you be safe to walk down a street with it? If you were in a shop and someone pointed this at you and said "hand over the money from the till or I'll blow your head off" would you feel confident to laugh? I know this is off topic but just wondered if the VCRA can make a real difference. There was a James Bond film where he grabbed a can of deodorant (or similar) and a lighter and created his own flamethrower to kill a snake or spider. No ideal if that would really work but not sure I would want to take the chance if facing someone using it as a threat.

It is so easy to qualify for UKARA if you are over 18 - why would you want to find ways to get around the rules?

For a retailer it probably isn't worth the risk of selling for cash without proof of a defence. The possibility of you being from the Police or Trading Standards should be enough to deter them.

Surely the rules apply to buying from any seller - not just retailers

Can't remember where I read it but I believe that anything under 1j is considered a `Toy' and perhaps therefore the need for the VCRA as these `Toys' can look very realistic.

H ow much did they charge ? $40 would be the 20% VAT (on the wrong figure) plus V AT on the postage cost and maybe a handling fee by the postal service/courier company. Maybe they opened the package and decided that the real value exceeded $20. Did the other four packages also get caught as you mentioned that the total cost was around 100 so maybe with shipping on top you have not done too badly overall.

You are not allowed to SELL an airsoft gun - two-tone or RIF to anyone under the age of 18. You can sell a two-tone to anyone over 18 and sell a RIF to anyone over 18 who has a valid defence. It is the seller who commits an offence if they do not comply with this (even though they may never be caught). The person over 18 who buys the gun can then `gift' it to someone under 18 - two-tone or RIF. If someone under the age of 18 gives their parent (or anyone over 18) the money and asks them to buy a two-tone for them, then they would not be able to claim that the gun had been `gifted'. You could argue that if Dad says to his son "I pay £6 every Saturday having my car washed at Tesco. If you wash it every Saturday then after a year I will buy you a gun costing £300" then this is not a `gift'. The Dad is supplying a gun in return for work. The chances of this type of deal ever ending up with a prosecution are very, very remote but it is not `legal'. There will always be loopholes. There was a thread some time ago about a pistol (Desert Eagle if I remember correctly). You could not buy one from any airsoft shop unless you had a valid defence. However, there was a company selling them as air-guns which anyone over 18 could buy in a face-to-face transaction. I would guess that the retailer would have argued that the fps was above the limit allowed by airsoft sites but fell within the limits for an air-gun.

It is not really a `gift; if the son gives Mum the money to buy the gun. If you bought a diamond bracelet for your wife/girlfriend/mistress and gave it to her then I reckon she would be very happy. If you then said "you owe me £1k for that" then maybe a different response as it is no longer a `gift'. If the Mum uses the son's money to but him a gun then she is not `gifting' it to him. In practice, they would get away with it. The same would apply if you had a friend taking up airsoft and he gave you the money to by a RIF for him under your UKARA number. What you could do is buy the RIF and loan it to your friend until he obtains his defence and then sell it to him In the meantime he may give you a security deposit (equal to the cost of the gun) to cover any damage etc. Lots of ways to get round the regulations but not strictly legal.

I don't think that would be `legal'. Strictly speaking, Mum buys a two-tone and then sells it to her son and she would therefore be breaking the law. For Mum to get into trouble they would both have to be pretty stupid. First the kid (under 18 year old) would have to do something to attract the attention of the police = wave it around in a public place etc. Then, when the police interview said kid, and ask him if it is his gun and how he got it, he would have to reply "I gave my Mum £100 and she bought it for me". Just saying "my Mum bought it for me" would avoid any problems. Trouble is, when they ask the same question several times in slightly different ways, you start to wonder how much common sense they have.

Do you actually read the answers to your questions? The person has to `gift' the gun to you. That means they get nothing in return. Taking your cash for a worthless item would not work if they were to be caught. No one is allowed to sell you a two-tone or RIF but they could sell your parents a two-tone. If you look on the sales section of the forum you will see that sellers want proof of your defence (normally UKARA number) before they will sell as it is their responsibility.

Your Dad could get a valid defence, buy the RIF and `Gift' it to you. If he said "cut the lawn over the summer and I'll give you the gun" then that is not a true gift. Being `gifted' a gun and then paying the exact/close value for a virtually worthless item would not be considered two valid and separate transactions. It would be the same if someone `gifted' a gun to you that he was selling for say £300 and you then gave him something of equal value. As for junior memberships where the parent is allowed to purchase RIF's based on the son's skirmish history then yes - there are schemes around and the clubs that offer these are comfortable that it complies with the legislation. You may also find that your club can store a RIF between games and allow you buy the RIF on condition that it does not leave the club area.

Don't see any problem with buying from outside the UK if it is cheaper (especially if it is cheaper after paying import duty/VAT). For guns I prefer to buy from our local site as they offer a great back-up service and often make no charge for relaively simple repairs. Otherwise I see no reason why I should pay say £300 or more for an item that sells for $300 in USA or Hong Kong. Even allowing for VAT, that would still only be about £230 (maybe a bit more with postage).