Tommikka

Imo if you're unsure if a gun is a rif or an if ask yourself 1 question. Would Joe public shit themselves if you walked into the post office openly carrying it?
 
We can debate the legal technicalities till the cows come home, but at the end of the day most people know ⅘ of bugger all about firearms so would just think "gun" rather than "ooh  nice glock/sig/whatever"

My take, these days Airsoft is only as expensive as you let it be, every bit of the highest quality kit has a budget equivalent, same for the guns (aeg's), obviously gas kits a bit different, but there's no reason someone can't be game ready for as little as £250, maybe less if you punt around the s/h classifieds. 
Same goes for green fees, a days fun for as little as £25 if you've got your own kit, very few other sporting pastimes compare to it, even renting a squash court for an hour is about £15.
Paying a bit more for rental kit to give you the ability to qualify for ukara is a relatively small price to pay if your planning to stick with it. 

If you're waiting up to a couple of months after the 3rd game to get your ukara number them that's down to the site owner being lazy, not ukara

How do you qualify the expense being absurd? The sites aren't charities. Their overheads of BBs, maintenance for the rental guns, their eventual replenishment and the labour costs of inspecting and stocktaking have to be taken into consideration along with a profit margin. It's really easy to belittle operating costs when you deviate from "try(ing) to remain neutral" and show an agenda against the current system.
 
Let's not push a false narrative that 2 months of having a UKARA defence is waiting to be approved is the norm. I had a provisional UKARA number the day I became a member of the site I played at to apply for becoming registered with UKARA BUT my defence didn't become active until a couple of days after I was signed off after playing my third game in just over 2 months and the site, after which the owner sent off an email to UKARA confirming I had satisfied the requirements. That defence was active for 12 months from the day I received by email from UKARA, not from when I played my first game. The only expense I have to incur to renew my UKARA registration is to continue my membership at the site for another year - that is much less expensive than monthly gym memberships, a few packs of cigarettes or a week's worth of overpriced custom Starbucks coffees.
 
Imparting misinformation as fact is less than conducive to discourse in good faith, especially when you "try to remain neutral".
 
 
 
 
 

Or: it probably wouldn't, should it ever actually come to court, but:
 
1) It won't
2) It's the retailer's problem if it did.
 2.1) Which it won't.

@GiantKiwi why do you think that exactly?  how much are you thinking and what area?  I'd say yearly pen test / audits would be a nice bonus but "significant" I'm not so sure

UKARA records site membership, there's no reason to just have a single one. I've had three on the go at once.

Why?
Define significant money?  A secure system, hosting and handling processes are required.  That costs money.  But why ‘significant’?
 
GDPR does not prevent the sharing of personal information - in fact, as any system designed to form a VCRA defence would require some form of sharing to function then it would be a GDPR breech to not share information collected for the purposes of sharing the validation of a defence.
 
It does require the security of information collected and to only share the appropriate information in the appropriate manner
 
eg Collect suitable information to justify a defence, receive a query to validate a defence, share appropriate information back and forth with appropriate parties
 
Eg request for defence number 54321, Joe Bloggs, 1 the Avenue, New Town
Result confirmed

Why?
Define significant money?  A secure system, hosting and handling processes are required.  That costs money.  But why ‘significant’?
 
GDPR does not prevent the sharing of personal information - in fact, as any system designed to form a VCRA defence would require some form of sharing to function then it would be a GDPR breech to not share information collected for the purposes of sharing the validation of a defence.
 
It does require the security of information collected and to only share the appropriate information in the appropriate manner
 
eg Collect suitable information to justify a defence, receive a query to validate a defence, share appropriate information back and forth with appropriate parties
 
Eg request for defence number 54321, Joe Bloggs, 1 the Avenue, New Town
Result confirmed

Why?
Define significant money?  A secure system, hosting and handling processes are required.  That costs money.  But why ‘significant’?
 
GDPR does not prevent the sharing of personal information - in fact, as any system designed to form a VCRA defence would require some form of sharing to function then it would be a GDPR breech to not share information collected for the purposes of sharing the validation of a defence.
 
It does require the security of information collected and to only share the appropriate information in the appropriate manner
 
eg Collect suitable information to justify a defence, receive a query to validate a defence, share appropriate information back and forth with appropriate parties
 
Eg request for defence number 54321, Joe Bloggs, 1 the Avenue, New Town
Result confirmed

The other thread on attracting players ties into this as well.  Particularly of note are the mentions of exercise / health benefits 
 
 

The Olympics have been mentioned, which is of course a topic that comes up among many activities every 4 years when someone makes a post such as “How come breakdance/gymnastics/latest demonstration is in the Olympics and x isn’t? They aren’t a sport and my thing is”
 
The answer is that people involved in those put in the effort to participate, establish national bodies, collaborate internationally and go through the national and international recognition processes.
 
 
Airsoft does not have to discard types of airsoft to make itself politically correct, it would in fact fracture itself and make backward steps.
It should not be pursued as a route to the Olympics but as a route to a number of benefits within each nation - healthy activities, benefiting society
 
Numbers are required - but that’s not the be all an end all
 
Delta Force (those who market themselves in shopping centres selling ‘discount’ tickets - which turn out to be paying the pitch and staff cost to obtain a booking phone number) have jumped on the bandwagon a few times claiming to be the representative body and trying to convince Sport England that everyone who has ever signed a rental disclaimer with them is a paintballer (to qualify them as representing all paintballers in the UK)
They were laughed out 
 
The UKPSF is the recognised representative body by the Home Office since before it was the UK (it was a European body run by one man in the UK until others took on the mainland Europe elements)
They represent the industry and players

The process for sports has been going on for a number of years.  Paintball still has not achieved sports recognition but is recognised as on its path, during Covid the UKPSF were treated by Sport England as if they were a formally recognised sports representative body and opening for UKPSF member sites in accordance with the UKPSF policies submitted was approved
(Non UKPSF sites may also have opened including Delta Force - and did so in breach of the reopening regulations)

 
(shooting each other of no concern as far as Sport England are concerned)
International tournaments take place already, even with different laws & rules in different countries - the national & international leagues set rules appropriately
(Even an attempt for one international organisation set a ‘standardised international rule book’ consisting of world rules and US rules, let alone competing leagues in the US and each country)
Note that tournaments do cover the obvious speedball format,  but there are also woods/scenario leagues - airsoft can have both recreational & competitive skirmishing plus speedsoft etc as a range of activities - these also can be shown in recognition submissions as inclusive pathways from grassroots to varying destinations and crossovers from the ‘professionals’ putting in support to local sites and groups 
 
 
 
 
 

On a numbers basis Sport England requires a minimum of 1600 paid up player members.
The UKPSF did run a free basic membership promotion for a few years - no good for qualifying numbers, but a step along the way and have moved those on to annual / 5 year memberships 
(On a quick check - I’m due for renewal this year)
 
They commissioned a study with Leeds Becket University, some parts of which I’ve seen, but I’ll avoid mentioning what as I do get involved with other members of the industry and could be discussing public and non public parts of the study.  It covers numerous factors to establish benefits covering health/exercise, social benefits etc 
Every now and then they publish a point from the study but are using the data in their bids with Sport England, lottery funding, information to member cohorts etc so are cagey about what fully goes public from a pricey study and also because they are pushing elements to improve 
 
One quote published is about social anxiety, confidence etc 
 
 
https://www.facebook.com/UKPSF/photos/a.290380091078069/3752634168185960/?type=3&mibextid=rS40aB7S9Ucbxw6v

 
Sites are a factor - contributing to the economy and providing facilities - though commercial they can be supported by community initiatives for grants etc if they build a case for how investment aids them to provide leisure to the community 
 
With the VCRA / UKARA airsoft must be able to establish evidence of a good level of paid up membership, and as a shooting activity could follow the same pathway as the UKPSF ….. it’s not essential to have one body covering sites/retail/trade/players/teams
 
 

Fencers wear suits that register hits.  No reason that airsofters couldn't in a real competition.  

We have shooting sports in Olympics, we have team sports in Olympics, there is really no reason why a gunfighting team sport cannot exist in Olympics, if it can be done safely, and fairly

The primary spirit of the Olympic Games being military skills.  

The primary spirit of the Olympic Games being military skills.  

Spot on!
 
I vote we nominate someone on the forum to act as spokesperson for the Airsofters' Alliance and ask them to put out authoritative press statements until they're accepted as a lazily sourced supplier of info for time pressed journos.  
 
We'll read through the UK Law threads and select Rogerborg someone.   
 
 

On topic there is likely to only be one company that would accept JustCos as a defence.

It also just so happens to be a company that references its partnership with a Comicon whose cosplay rules explicitly ban RIFs.  They will also charge you £20 for the privilege of making a false declaration 

Look up a retailer, attempt to buy a RIF and see what defences are asked for.  If you really do want to use whichever non UKARA defence you can manage then a very minor amount of effort would find you someone who is willing to sell a RIF without UKARA but with you claiming that your intent is to play airsoft on insured sites - which is what the law actually requires 

Respectfully, you're asking for a way around the UKARA policy - Which quite frankly is the only thing stopping every tw*t from waltzing into an airsoft retailer, buying a "well sick pistol bruv" and using said pistol for ill intents. Next thing you know, headlines read "AIRSOFT IS BAD, VERY BAD!" and the public demand it be banned forever because it's very scary and people have guns and do crime.
 
My example is exaggerated, obviously, but given how close airsoft has came numerous times to being shut down fully in the UK you have to realize why people are giving you this answer.
 
But, to answer your initial question to keep it "on topic" I doubt there are more than 5 retailers willing to risk their livelihood for the JustCos policy and I would be sceptical of any retailers that do accept it.

To me the sportsman association defence is also dodgy as fuck as you just pay your money without having to ever attend an airsoft site.  To me both these defences are a big middle finger to those who put in the hard work lobbying for the defence we have and potentially could put the hobby at risk.

This.
Just-cos is a load of bullshit made up by a certain shop as a get around to sell rifs to anyone. As for the insurance it offers, anyone who needs it shouldn't have access to rifs as its insurance against being a dumbarse and doing things you shouldn't be doing.

Hopefully, none. To my knowledge, Just-Cos isn't a valid defence for a RIF.

You’re welcome ….
 

You’re welcome ….
 

You’re welcome ….
 

I picked up a donkey copy (years ago!) of paranormal activity. 
Turns out there was two endings, one "US" (crappy) and one "everyone else" (not crappy!!!!!!). 
I shat my pants and couldnt sleep properly for ages. Genuinely jarred me. 🤯