Prisce

GBBR/HPA New Law Issues?

34 posts in this topic

First off this is not meant to be a scaremongering doom and gloom thread, I just think it needs to be out there for everyone to know.

 

So an acquaintance of mine( who doesn't use the Internet- old fart) runs a M4 GBBR and a few accessories, and after purchasing a few bits online(new reg and a gas tube I believe) he got a visit from the police.

 

I should say this guy has been running HPA a lot longer than I have been playing airsoft, so he's pretty clued up.

 

He explained to the police, who were apparently very friendly, that the pieces were for an airsoft gun, that adheres to the 1.3J new law and is controlled via a regulator.

 

The police said they would have to take it away to test as they believe that it is over the legal limit of 1.3J. Knowing he wasn't, he said sure, they took it away and some time passed and he got a phone call, apparently the gun was registering a hell of a lot higher than 1.3j and they were seizing it and starting charges for class 5 ownership etc

 

So after going straight down the station, having a long ass discussion he found that to test the rifle the whack the regulator to maximum and test it on that, because that's what "it could fire at". He explained to a guy at the station that the regulator locks it off, he's been using it for years and the sites can vouch it's never been used overpower etc

 

He got the charges dropped, but they did seize the rifle permanently.

 

Now I know there are a tonne of guys here who run HPA and was wondering if you have had any similar or totally different experiences regarding the new laws, and if anyone is more clued up than me and if he ever had a leg to stand on. 

 

He no longer runs HPA and is not arguing this with the police as he just can't be bothered.( Too old in my opinion, doesn't want the hassle)

 

 

 

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It is why I am not venturing down the HPA route myself, although on bolt action rifles it isn't such an issue as they don't become a firearm if they go over the single action limit, they become an air rifle so not a problem. I'd not bother with HPA on a full auto with this stuff in the air at the moment.

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Your car can go over the speed limit, it doesn't mean you are going to speed

 

hell you can get hpa air rifles that you can turn over 12lb/ft

 

No offence to the OP, but its funny that all these type of posts are by a friend.... I have yet to see this posted by an owner

AshOnSnow likes this

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Totally unenforceable nonsense that will - at best - apply to manufacturers. It's down to the courts to define what 'readily convertible' actually is, until then I'd be sceptical but frankly you could be waiting a while as we still don't have definitions for a lot of the VCRA stuff due to none of it being prosecuted. We might see insurance companies making that definition for site owners, but that would probably have happened by now if it was going to.

 

All in all, I wouldn't worry about it but of course there is a degree of uncertainty. Use a tournament lock for skirmishes just to keep site owners happy though for sure because people are unreasonably afraid of HPA because of a few twats.

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5 minutes ago, proffrink said:

Sure, if you want it to be.

 

Well, yeah, if a retailer or shipping company is reporting people to the authorities shouldn't airsoft players want to know that?

 

EDIT:

 

Quote

So an acquaintance of mine( who doesn't use the Internet- old fart) runs a M4 GBBR and a few accessories, and after purchasing a few bits online(new reg and a gas tube I believe) he got a visit from the police.

 

What wrong with this sentence? Does anyone else see it?

Albiscuit, Lozart, Samurai and 1 other like this

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3 minutes ago, Sacarathe said:

What wrong with this sentence? Does anyone else see it?

hahahahah :D

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1 minute ago, sp00n said:

Wonder if it was a real steel buffer tube?

would that work on a GBBR?

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Like I said, I didn't mean for this to do anything other than give people the heads up incase it happens to them. 

 

I only posted this hoping someone here may be able to shed a little light on the laws/subject so if anyone else gets caught they have some information they can use. 

 

Better still, is there any officers who could clear this up? 

 

PT247 likes this

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14 hours ago, Prisce said:

Like I said, I didn't mean for this to do anything other than give people the heads up incase it happens to them. 

 

I only posted this hoping someone here may be able to shed a little light on the laws/subject so if anyone else gets caught they have some information they can use. 

 

Better still, is there any officers who could clear this up? 

 

 

Was the gun seized HPA or GBBR?

 

Do you know why they stopped the prosecution, if the guy was 'guilty'.

 

Also, I'm still a little unclear how someone which doesn't use the internet ordered online.

 

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Apologies, I composed the article at 6:10 in the morning after a night out, guess I didn't make myself that clear.

 

It was HPA( I don't know enough about gas guns admittedly and wondered if the same problem could be found with GBBR) 

 

No, only met this guy once( hence acquaintance- not friend), and at the time I didn't think to ask, I can understand why you'd want to know that, if I see him again I shall ask.

 

That is and always will be my blonde moment, he buys through a friend over Facebook, I would presume he was an old friend, or he just buys for him. 

 

The guy in question doesn't buy from shops online, no idea why. He made this very clear when I spoke to him.

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7 minutes ago, Prisce said:

Apologies, I composed the article at 6:10 in the morning after a night out, guess I didn't make myself that clear.

 

It was HPA( I don't know enough about gas guns admittedly and wondered if the same problem could be found with GBBR) 

 

No, only met this guy once( hence acquaintance- not friend), and at the time I didn't think to ask, I can understand why you'd want to know that, if I see him again I shall ask.

 

That is and always will be my blonde moment, he buys through a friend over Facebook, I would presume he was an old friend, or he just buys for him. 

 

The guy in question doesn't buy from shops online, no idea why. He made this very clear when I spoke to him.

 

On 11/06/2017 at 6:10 AM, Prisce said:

 

So an acquaintance of mine( who doesn't use the Internet- old fart) runs a M4 GBBR and a few accessories, and after purchasing a few bits online(new reg and a gas tube I believe) he got a visit from the police.

 

That's not an acquaintance, that's gossip.

 

All credibility demolished:

 

/thread.

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 He may have been feeding me a pack of lies, I couldn't tell you, hence why I asked in my original post if anyone had any similar experiences, and why in my second post I asked if anyone could clear it up. 

 

By definition(image attached so you don't have to search it up) he is an acquaintance. It may be gossip, I haven't said anywhere it is fact, only what I have been told, which is the reason I posted here, using a question mark in the title to me is evidence enough I wasn't sure about this. 

 

So so if you haven't got anything useful to add or contribute, please refrain from commenting. I tend to agree with you it's bollocks. 

 

If you believed it was bollocks, a simple " I have never had this problem, or don't know anyone who has, but in my OPINION it's bollocks" would have been suffice.

 

Not meaning to get snooty, but you have diverted from the original post and are just  commenting on me and not the topic.

image.png

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10 hours ago, Prisce said:

So so if you haven't got anything useful to add or contribute, please refrain from commenting.

 

Took the words right outa my mouth.

 

10 hours ago, Prisce said:

Not meaning to get snooty, but you have diverted from the original post and are just  commenting on me and not the topic.

 

That's right, I am.

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I know with air guns there is no set definition on the format the tests the police will do and could adjust settings and use other ammunition whilst testing. The justification for this is that the wording from the legislation of power limits uses a very ambiguous word "capable" yet does not define this. In general these days on air guns any adjustment will be hidden or restricted so not to be bale to go over. For example regulators will normally be internally shimmed so the only way to adjust them is to dismantle them. They will also always be set below the limit so if another average pellet is used it would still be below the limit. 

 

 

 

 

Prisce likes this

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OK, so to drag the thread kicking and screaming back nearer the topic....

 

Are there not fixed flow/pressure restrictors available that can ensure the rig CAN'T deliver more than the legal limit?

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Not really, because the inherent efficiencies of each system are different. Some more expensive electric solenoid can work on a lower pressure whilst something like a Daytona Gun kit needs a minimum of 110psi in the majority of cases. 110psi in a Polarstar is far more than enough to break the legal limit twice over (and the engine, but you get the point). Unless places start selling UK-friendly kits, I see no way this can happen. It's another ludicrously unenforceable bit of legislation because you're then regulating pressure regulators.

 

I suppose the best thing one could do would be to set the 'UK safe' pressure then spot-weld a tournament lock (like the Wolverine storm one) so it's no longer readily convertible. Or you could round off the pressure adjustment socket? Of course you are then screwed if you want to use it for a different kit in either case so I dunno. I for one am leaving my stuff as is (i.e. set and zip-tied) until someone gets taken to court to figure out this mess (which I think we all know probably won't happen).

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It would be quite simple to make a range of non adjustable regulators though. Once you know what sort of PSI you need, you buy the right regulator for that gun.

 

I don't know, just spit balling ideas really....

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I suppose, but then as an HPA user I have electric solenoid and fully pneumatic systems that run at vastly different pressures. Regulators - even the cheapest ones - are about 60 quid, and the good, high refresh ones are 130 plus :S Though my situation is a bit unique in that I have different regulators for all my stuff for a series of reasons, there are people out there who will have even two electric solenoid systems that - because of the barrel length/bore, kit brand, hop setup etc. will need to adjust a regulator for their gun.

 

And further to that, the issue is just that: The kit is just the start - the barrel and hop etc. will all mean different pressure settings for different people even with the same kit.

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But surely that's not different to AEG springs? No two AEGs work exactly the same because they all have so many variables and yet we're all used to compromising on the springs we get. Regulators currently are only the price they are because of the need for adjustment. At their most basic they're a restriction in the line so any fixed venturi should do the job.

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And here lies the actual issue: 'Readily convertible' is far too vague. Quick-swap spring gearboxes could do the same thing. Does a 'zip tie' mean you have to 'manufacture' or 'retool' the item in order to get it over the limit? What if I replace my upper with a new, longer barrel by pushing out a pin on my AEG? I'd imagine that could be done in less than 2-3 minutes.

 

Also, AEG springs don't cost £60+. I'm sure you've got a set of spare AEG springs, but I know very few HPA users with a spare set of regulators. We're talking about a disparity of around 60psi between the most efficient electric solenoid and the least efficient fully pneumatic system: On electric solenoid, even 5psi makes a huge difference, so there would need to be a minimum of 30 different regulators or regulator parts to cover those pressure bands. Then there's the issue that as a player I have no idea which regulator to pick for my hop/barrel setup before I buy. I could be conservative and go 10psi behind where I think I might need to be and then find myself short by 80psi, or I could buy a range and return them? I'm also not convinced that they're a high price just because of their adjust-ability - many are a high price because of the brand behind them and their comparative refresh rates.

 

The whole thing is super dumb and frankly deserves about as much of our attention as the people who wrote it gave it. If they better define it I'm happy to abide by it but as it stands there's nothing to say a zip tie isn't enough to stop something being 'readily' convertible. Also I have to use a tool to adjust pressure anyway and I imagine there's an argument to be made for that being beyond 'readily' already.

PT247 and Jay91 like this

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