Alternatives to the NGRS system

[Ryfoolz]

Hello all! After a few years out of the pastime due to that global pandemic thing and other real life crap I’m finally back able to enjoy playing again but with that comes the dreaded G.A.S. ( gun acquisition syndrome)

 

I have a number of AEGs/GBBRs but my go to is my hk416 NGRS (still stock after 4 years) and I love it, I enjoy the simulated recoil and I know it’s stupid but it is a big part of why I enjoy our sport!
 

So my question is, is there any other brand/gun that has come out in the past couple of years with an electric recoil system that is pretty decent/doesn’t shake itself to bits (old bolts from memory)  and doesn’t need any real work done out of the box?

 

I’m very tempted by the new TM mp5 but I’m open minded and welcome to take any and all suggestions!  

 

 

[Chev Chelios]

Not come out in the last few years but GBLS DAS is the next step in electric blowback. Crazy prices but got a good deal on here and never looked back. Use it 90% of the time now. Parts are proprietary but as for fixes/maintenance no harder than a TM based Mechbox. Basically a gas blow back without temp worries, heavy mags and the ability to scale up how much ammo the mags can take depending on what you are doing. 

 

[Archer]

KWA ERG system - ran  most of their variants with no issues.

 

 

[tinkle60]

Bolt is a pretty decent option in terms of performance and strength of recoil.

[BigStew]

KWA doesn't have the functionality of TM and Bolt have serious build quality/reliability issues. 

[Ryfoolz]

On 22/07/2023 at 17:43, Chev Chelios said:

Not come out in the last few years but GBLS DAS is the next step in electric blowback. Crazy prices but got a good deal on here and never looked back. Use it 90% of the time now. Parts are proprietary but as for fixes/maintenance no harder than a TM based Mechbox. Basically a gas blow back without temp worries, heavy mags and the ability to scale up how much ammo the mags can take depending on what you are doing. 

 

If I try to buy one I think I’d need to find somewhere else to live, the mrs won’t be too happy! But if one cropped up here cheap enough I could be tempted! It looks good

1 hour ago, BigStew said:

KWA doesn't have the functionality of TM and Bolt have serious build quality/reliability issues. 

What functionality does the KWA not have? And I’ve heard this said about bolt a few times but with everything I don’t know how much is true about them rattling themselves to death. Watched a Neg video where he was saying that like any gun with moving parts they just need regular maintenance. I do quite a bit of my teching myself so going in to tighten screws up every now and again is no bother! Whats your experience with them? 
 

edit, watched a second video where he said he would never touch them again! I don’t know why I like the recoil so much it would make buying these things so much easier!

Edited July 23, 2023 by Ryfoolz

[mightyjebus]

TM NGRS M4 series: needs a mosfet to stop the annoying stopping in semi for no reason

TM NGRS AK series: no major issues but they feel cheap with the plastic fake wood

TM NGRS MP5 series: Go for the SD6 as the A5 has the older main board which can fail (not very often but it's there)

TM MK46: heavy, expensive and looks the mutts nuts when it firing.

KWA T10: needs a titan to stop the lock ups in semi and a heavier recoil than the TM NGRS's

DAS GBLS: expensive but probably the best AEG recoil and very close to a GBB rifle recoil

Top Shell ejecting M4: impractial and a bit of a unicorn now. 

 

You could also go for a GBB rifle. The TM MWS and AK GBB's are a really good platform and can work all year round (almost and you are limited to low ammo counts in the mag)

The Saiga 12K is a bit of a game changer if you are a CQB fanboy. If they produce mags that hold more than 15 shots it's going to be manic at a lot of CQB sites. I'd hate to come up against a semi good team all rocking Saiga's as the volume of fire would be insane.

 

These opinions are based on owning all the above and worked on them all to some degree. I can't comment on the Bolt series as I've never bought one as the ones I've seen annoy me enough as the fake bolt sometimes stops in the half open position which grips my Sh*t for some reason.

 

If you aren't in a rush to buy then keep an eye on TM's releases next year. With the gradual improvements to the NGRS series over the last few years I wouldn't be surprised to see a new M4 style NGRS using the TM fancy mosfet and batteries they are now putting in the MP5 series.

 

 

 

[Ryfoolz]

2 hours ago, mightyjebus said:

TM NGRS M4 series: needs a mosfet to stop the annoying stopping in semi for no reason

TM NGRS AK series: no major issues but they feel cheap with the plastic fake wood

TM NGRS MP5 series: Go for the SD6 as the A5 has the older main board which can fail (not very often but it's there)

TM MK46: heavy, expensive and looks the mutts nuts when it firing.

KWA T10: needs a titan to stop the lock ups in semi and a heavier recoil than the TM NGRS's

DAS GBLS: expensive but probably the best AEG recoil and very close to a GBB rifle recoil

Top Shell ejecting M4: impractial and a bit of a unicorn now. 

 

You could also go for a GBB rifle. The TM MWS and AK GBB's are a really good platform and can work all year round (almost and you are limited to low ammo counts in the mag)

The Saiga 12K is a bit of a game changer if you are a CQB fanboy. If they produce mags that hold more than 15 shots it's going to be manic at a lot of CQB sites. I'd hate to come up against a semi good team all rocking Saiga's as the volume of fire would be insane.

 

These opinions are based on owning all the above and worked on them all to some degree. I can't comment on the Bolt series as I've never bought one as the ones I've seen annoy me enough as the fake bolt sometimes stops in the half open position which grips my Sh*t for some reason.

 

If you aren't in a rush to buy then keep an eye on TM's releases next year. With the gradual improvements to the NGRS series over the last few years I wouldn't be surprised to see a new M4 style NGRS using the TM fancy mosfet and batteries they are now putting in the MP5 series.

 

 

 

Thank you for your recommendations! I do hate the lock up in semi on my 416 so i will add a titan or something similar soon, i dont tend to spam so ive been alright! The Saiga does look mighty tempting as im mainly playing CQB. If i was playing more outdoor games i would have caved and drunkenly ordered the MK46! I have enough toy guns where im not in a rush to buy anything, its just that itch you know, it wont go away until a parcel turns up at the front door Ill plod along until what we see next year, i might see about a cheeky MWS for some gas only games/plinking in the garden in the meantime

[MrTea]

On 22/07/2023 at 20:33, tinkle60 said:

Bolt is a pretty decent option in terms of performance and strength of recoil.

 

Not that i've used them but i've read more than a few, albeit older, posts about the Bolt BRSS/heavy recoil systems being horridly unreliable and/or completely crap internals to the point stores were complaining to Bolt because they were having to repair so many of their AEGs. I saw a BRSS up for sale a while ago, dirt cheap, and wish I pulled the trigger on it then.

Edited July 23, 2023 by MrTea

[BigStew]

People keep talking about semi lock on M4/416 NRGS I have run a 416 and most of my team mates run M4 variants for the last few years never had lock up issues. How common actually is it?

[mightyjebus]

1 hour ago, BigStew said:

People keep talking about semi lock on M4/416 NRGS I have run a 416 and most of my team mates run M4 variants for the last few years never had lock up issues. How common actually is it?

It's a symptom of spamming the trigger in semi. A very quick double tap can result in lockup. it's easy enough to switch to full auto to clear but annoying enough for me to swap out all my M4 style recoils with a mosfet. on a 7.4v Lipo I can usually make it happen 50% of the time and using a 11.1v it's a lot less. I've got 5 or 6 M4 varients here and all did it. friends that i play with also have had the same issue with their M4's and I've seen it happen on the AK NGRS platofrm as well.

[BigStew]

12 minutes ago, mightyjebus said:

It's a symptom of spamming the trigger in semi. A very quick double tap can result in lockup. it's easy enough to switch to full auto to clear but annoying enough for me to swap out all my M4 style recoils with a mosfet. on a 7.4v Lipo I can usually make it happen 50% of the time and using a 11.1v it's a lot less. I've got 5 or 6 M4 varients here and all did it. friends that i play with also have had the same issue with their M4's and I've seen it happen on the AK NGRS platofrm as well.

Ah so user error. Seems an expensive fix for either not spamming the trigger or just use full auto short controlled bursts.

[hitmanNo2]

It's hardly user error. With many sites/milsims having a semi auto only rule for non support guns, it's only natural you're going to be spamming semi auto.

[BigStew]

40 minutes ago, hitmanNo2 said:

It's hardly user error. With many sites/milsims having a semi auto only rule for non support guns, it's only natural you're going to be spamming semi auto.

Disagree with what statement the whole point of semi auto restrictions is to limit number of BBs in the air. If you are using semi auto to replicate full auto you are using the gun wrong. Using something in a way it's not supposed to use causing it to fail is use error. If car engine blew up because you are doing 70 in 1st you going to say that a design flaw or  user error?

[Esoterick]

3 hours ago, BigStew said:

People keep talking about semi lock on M4/416 NRGS I have run a 416 and most of my team mates run M4 variants for the last few years never had lock up issues. How common actually is it?

Once in around 100 games for me and it was from excessively spamming the trigger in semi, it’s bad usage at that point

 

quite a lot of cars don’t like to be regularly redlined so…. Not sure it’s a great analogy 

 

also people could go mad and learn to aim lol

[BigStew]

2 hours ago, Esoterick said:

 

 

also people could go mad and learn to aim lol

Thats one that gets me when I am on Reddit amount of people going what's the asking most accurate gun or how to make their gun more accurate, never giving a minutes consideration to actually learning to shoot.

[mightyjebus]

Most of my lock ups came from double or triple taps. My finger is working faster than the AEG can handle. It's not something that happens on real steel so hardly a case of not knowing how to shoot but a limitation on the AEG performance.

[hitmanNo2]

5 hours ago, BigStew said:

Disagree with what statement the whole point of semi auto restrictions is to limit number of BBs in the air. If you are using semi auto to replicate full auto you are using the gun wrong. Using something in a way it's not supposed to use causing it to fail is use error. If car engine blew up because you are doing 70 in 1st you going to say that a design flaw or  user error?

I can't see your argument here tbh.  It's a design flaw/design limitation that you can out run an AEG trigger.  Shooting quickly/double taps in semi auto is fairly normal practice in the military and full auto is reserved for very specific situations.

 

[BigStew]

2 hours ago, hitmanNo2 said:

I can't see your argument here tbh.  It's a design flaw/design limitation that you can out run an AEG trigger.  Shooting quickly/double taps in semi auto is fairly normal practice in the military and full auto is reserved for very specific situations.

 

If you fire too many rounds down a real gun in quick succession at best you will destroy the barrel at worst they will be picking bits of receiver out of you. So again is that design flaw or user error? I would agree if a AEG locks up after a double tap that is a design issue, But the term "spam the trigger" was used and that doesn't bring to mind double tap. If you use a gun that was not designed to be a speed soft gun like a speed soft gun and it fails that's user error. We are obviously coming at this for to different mentalities of playing so we are not going to see eye to eye.

 

to the OP Tokyo Marui are still the best in the game for recoil that isn't going to cost 1.5k +. I have used a bone stock NRGS 416 with a 20c 7.4v 1300mha lipo for over two years and the gun has never locked up on me. Obviously other people have had different experiences all i can say is don't spend money on parts you don't need to.  

[hitmanNo2]

Lol. What? You know the amount of rounds needed to kill a barrel in a short space of time right? You think someone with a combat loadout of mags firing quickly in semi auto is going to do that? Looooooool.

 

I've mag dumped full auto firearms. Never once was I concerned with blowing up a receiver.

 

I think you've gotten hung up on "spam the trigger". Yes, if I'm on my own and I need to take out 5 other players in close proximity to each other that know my general location, I'm going to be pulling that trigger as fast as possible. I really don't know why you're taking an issue with this. I'm not sure what mentality of playing you're coming at this from. I only really play milsims where I'm limited to semi unless running a support gun. I guess if you're full autoing through ferns on a typical Sunday skirmish, you might not appreciate the need to be able to shoot quickly in semi.

[gavinkempsell]

 

I don't see the problem...

[tinkle60]

10 hours ago, gavinkempsell said:

I don't see the problem...

 

Off topic, but I love how the shooter starts off aiming down the sights and ends up just hanging on for dear life.

[EDcase]

Not really relevant anymore as I don't think they're still available but the recoil on my Lonex BAW (Orange cap) is so strong its a bit scary.

I've used it in a few games and its so loud it has scared people next to me 😲

Its the only AEG I have that actually needs 11.1v LiPo to run.

 

I duno how long it'll last but I'm enjoying it while it does.

 

Not many videos of em unfortunately.  Most videos I've found are showing the weaker version which was also available as an addon kit. (Red cap)

This is the only one that comes close to showing the true power 😄

 

 

Edited July 26, 2023 by EDcase

[TheFull9]

On 24/07/2023 at 22:20, BigStew said:

If you fire too many rounds down a real gun in quick succession at best you will destroy the barrel at worst they will be picking bits of receiver out of you.

 

Not correct, just watch a few YT videos of competition shooters in the US hosing down stages with no issues, then look up a 'melt down' video to see the crazy volume of non-stop automatic fire it takes to actually break something on even a commercial firearm that's not designed or built to be used in automatic.  The info/evidence is widely available.