Hardshells anyone? (Includes PCU ramblings and thoughts)

[Skara]

Bit of an odd question,

I'm looking at hardshells, I own a couple of "civvi" ones that I use for hiking or everyday life but a) they're in bright colours and b) the Gore-Tex membrane is starting to give up on both (they're 11 years old at this time), a couple of years ago I bought one surplus DPM MVP jacket that, in all honesty, wasn't that great:

Doesn't take long for water to leak through the shoulders even when not wearing a rig/bag, also it's quite stiff and bulky to pack.

 

So I'm on the hunt for a proper hardshell that I can use for Airsoft, don't mind spending a bit of money as long as I'm not overpaying for Arc'Teryx or Patagucci bollocks.

 

Ideally I'd like proper Gore-Tex membrane just because the fabric needs to pass a quite strict QC process before being sewn into a garment (or at least that's what Gore says on the website), but other membranes are fine as long as they actually work.

 

Any suggestions?

Edited May 15, 2023 by Skara

[Smiling-Dutchman]

How about this one?? https://www.varusteleka.com/en/product/sarma-hardshell-jacket/63642

Varusteleka is always a good website to browse, they might also have some decent surplus stuff that might fit your needs.

[Dentonboy]

Second hand Triple Aught Design, or see if there are any surplus PCU items on ebay that would suit.

[hitmanNo2]

I have a surplus Flecktan one that is whatever the German military's version of Gore-Tex is which is decent.  Also have a Beyond Clothing ARX 2.0 which comes in a nice green which is also very nice.

[Davet]

Second hand issued Carinthia PRG off of the Ebays.  Good enough for the Poole and Hereford crowds, Goretex Pro, well made, tough and reliable.

Edited May 14, 2023 by Davet

[Skara]

On 13/05/2023 at 09:00, Smiling-Dutchman said:

How about this one?? https://www.varusteleka.com/en/product/sarma-hardshell-jacket/63642

Yup, saw this already.. Looks nice but the thing that bugs me is the waterproof and breathability rating, 5.000 columns doesn't seem like much given that my GTX shells have 20.000 columns, the same applies to breathability, 5000 vs 10000..

Design wise it's similar to the Montura paclite shell I have, which I have written off as a bad purchase (yeah the jacket is that bad).

 

On 13/05/2023 at 10:59, Dentonboy said:

Second hand Triple Aught Design, or see if there are any surplus PCU items on ebay that would suit.

Mhm, can't find anything, and yes I'm building my own poor man's PCU system (already have levels 1, 3, 4 and 5, just need level 6 and maybe level 2)

On 13/05/2023 at 15:45, hitmanNo2 said:

I have a surplus Flecktan one that is whatever the German military's version of Gore-Tex is which is decent.  Also have a Beyond Clothing ARX 2.0 which comes in a nice green which is also very nice.

Beyond's website has a very tasty 58 fucking % discount on the ARX...

But those fuckers won't ship outside the US for some reason -.-

On 14/05/2023 at 16:30, Davet said:

Second hand issued Carinthia PRG off of the Ebays.  Good enough for the Poole and Hereford crowds, Goretex Pro, well made, tough and reliable.

 

Honestly I'd like to avoid surplus garments if possible (will edit in a minute)

[Emergencychimps]

Have you checked out alpkit? I haven't used their hardshells but they have a good rep and the stuff I have from them has been good and excellent value for money (not cheap, not silly money, just good value). 

 

Otherwise my question is, do you really NEED a hardshell? Most fabrics will fail when they have rigs/rucksacks on top or you get as wet but from sweat. 

 

I've done loads of events, weekenders etc at the trees and other horrible wet venues and honestly only needed a hardshell once. Often water resistant jackets, windshirts etc are enough, they may get damp but movement keeps you warm and when you aren't moving, put warm/dry kit on. 

 

 

[Colin Allen]

21 minutes ago, Emergencychimps said:

Have you checked out alpkit? I haven't used their hardshells but they have a good rep and the stuff I have from them has been good and excellent value for money (not cheap, not silly money, just good value). 

 

Otherwise my question is, do you really NEED a hardshell? Most fabrics will fail when they have rigs/rucksacks on top or you get as wet but from sweat. 

 

I've done loads of events, weekenders etc at the trees and other horrible wet venues and honestly only needed a hardshell once. Often water resistant jackets, windshirts etc are enough, they may get damp but movement keeps you warm and when you aren't moving, put warm/dry kit on. 

 

 

Exactly this.  For a day or a weekend playing airsoft, you don't need ultra technical kit; having warm dry clothing available for downtimes is enough.  Many people overload themselves with gear that they really do not need.

[Skara]

That is a very true statement.

For regular game days I won't need anything past a windshirt or a level 5 type softshell even in the harshest of downpours and usually I don't wear anything apart from a tee - combat shirt unless it's particularly cold (say sub 10°), thing is, I don't do skirmishes only, I also play long events where I don't have the chance to go back to my car and change or have a building/base/safezone I can return to, it's why I want a proper rain jacket.

 

I like the idea behind the PCU system of drying fast rather than trying to keep dry (which is impossible), but for those moments where I'm stationary for whatever reason I want something that stops rain/wind and lets my wet layers dry underneath. When moving I don't expect to stay dry, I'm either soaked with rain or sweat anyway so a windshirt/softshell will do.

[RichardC]

Will you actually be able to dry out with a hard shell over wet stuff? It’s going to have to be pretty mad breathable to get rid of all that moisture. My Montane running waterproof claims to 20000/20000 but can’t deal with my sweating so I’m not sure any ‘breathable’ jacket would let you dry out if you were wet (rather than damp). Not very tacticool but a poncho might!

 

Personally I’d take a buffalo mountain shirt or montane extreme over a breathable waterproof anyday. But I am a heavy sweater…

 

 

 

[Lozart]

1 hour ago, RichardC said:

Will you actually be able to dry out with a hard shell over wet stuff? It’s going to have to be pretty mad breathable to get rid of all that moisture. My Montane running waterproof claims to 20000/20000 but can’t deal with my sweating so I’m not sure any ‘breathable’ jacket would let you dry out if you were wet (rather than damp). Not very tacticool but a poncho might!

 

Personally I’d take a buffalo mountain shirt or montane extreme over a breathable waterproof anyday. But I am a heavy sweater…

 

 

 

 

 

Was going to ask the same thing!

[RichardC]

As a more useful bit of advice if you’re set on waterproofness - have you looked at Paramo? They claim that  liquid water not just vapour can escape so might give you what you’re looking for. Not tried cos of price so can’t say whether it works!

[Skara]

Necro, but I don't care ❤️

 

https://www.helikon-tex.com/en_eur/ku-shj-tr-squall-hardshell-jacket-torrentstretch.html

 

This just popped on the Helikon website, they claim 30k/30k which seems almost too good to be true, and the €220 price tag means I won't lose too much money if it's crap.

 

(if it's good, I'm buying two)

[The Waco Kid]

Surplus Austrian ones are good and not too pricey.

[Davet]

20 hours ago, The Waco Kid said:

Surplus Austrian ones are good and not too pricey.

Those would be the Carinthia ones I suggested but were poo poo’d. Kit Pest do them for about £200 in grade A or EBay has cheaper ones that might have a little more wear. I have one and it’s excellent.

[Skara]

1 hour ago, Davet said:

Those would be the Carinthia ones I suggested but were poo poo’d

Nope, Waco is referring to those you can find on Varusteleka, they're m65 style, bulky and heavy.

 

The TRG/PRG jackets are in another league and even then, I didn't poo poo them, I kept looking for it but honestly, couldn't find anything worth (to me at least).

[Davet]

I picked mine up for £65 off EBay, right place right time to get that good a deal. But if you’re looking at £200-300 on a second hand TAD or similar, then the Carinthias on Kit Pest are well worth a look.

[Skara]

Helikon Squall delivered.

 

First impressions are.....I fucked up the sizing, went for an L based on their size chart, confident I could wear it over my puffy aaaaand...truth is, I felt like the Michelin man (also sweating my ass off in 35° weather with a puffy and a shell on) 

So I sent it back and ordered an XL instead.

 

Material feels nice, weight is nice, packs down small, I like the ventilation armpit zippers, not a fan of waterproof zippers (I see them as weak points, while a regular zip with storm flaps offers multiple levels of protection at just a slight weight/bulk cost) but heh, can't complain too much.

If the jacket does what it says on the tin regarding to waterproofness and "breathability", I'll be impressed.

And I will buy a 2nd one in Grey to have a backup for when my old trusty Salewa Terra buys the farm.