Selling an Airsoft rifle to a shop. Do they need a defence?

[CDT-BABZ]

Hi

 

I'm selling some older Airsoft rifles I have in order to raise funds. The shop/store that I'm selling to is https://airsoftimports.co.uk

 

Do they need a UKARA or is their defence that they buy and sell Airsoft guns enough and keep me covered?

 

Thanks,

Babz

[Slamz]

They're an Airsoft retailer, that's their defence, so they don't need ukara for you to sell to them. 

[CDT-BABZ]

Thanks

[_stylian_]

He's a registered retailer. Do check the prices offered etc, they can be pretty low sometimes though Nick is upfront about this 

[Badgerlicious]

1 hour ago, _stylian_ said:

He's a registered retailer. Do check the prices offered etc, they can be pretty low sometimes though Nick is upfront about this 

 

Well a retailer is going to have to make money on whatever you sell them. Of course you're much more likely to be able to sell whatever you have to them since they aren't buying for themselves. 

[Tommikka]

7 hours ago, _stylian_ said:

He's a registered retailer. Do check the prices offered etc, they can be pretty low sometimes though Nick is upfront about this 

The standard mark up any retailer should be looking for is to double their money, this is to cover other overheads, their time; shelf space, card payment fees, when it’s sat waiting for a buyer etc and guarantees / returns 

 

 

Some markets don’t facilitate that and the price people are willing to pay gives a tiny margin. (Package holidays for example - its a little bit ironic that the fall of Thompson was contributed to by the cost difference between a full package holiday and self booking of flights, hotels etc individually —- but that cost difference paid for ABTA ATOL protection (and those who have lost out on self booked direct Thomas Cook airline flights need to check their insurance)

 

With selling a second hand gun you can go for your asking price then deal with the people out there, seeing what offers you get & how quickly you need to sell, or you can deal with a middle man with no hassle but a lower price as you are off loading the hassle of getting a sale

[Rogerborg]

13 hours ago, Slamz said:

They're an Airsoft retailer, that's their defence, so they don't need ukara for you to sell to them. 

 

Oh hai.  Can you point out to which of these actual defences you think that you're referring?

 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/38/section/37

 

37 Specific defences applying to the offence under s. 36

(1) It shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under section 36 in respect of any conduct to show that the conduct was for the purpose only of making the imitation firearm in question available for one or more of the purposes specified in subsection (2).

(2) Those purposes are—

(a) the purposes of a museum or gallery;

(b) the purposes of theatrical performances and of rehearsals for such performances;

(c) the production of films (within the meaning of Part 1 of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 (c. 48)_see section 5B of that Act);

(d) the production of television programmes (within the meaning of the Communications Act 2003 (c. 21)_see section 405(1) of that Act);

(e) the organisation and holding of historical re-enactments organised and held by persons specified or described for the purposes of this section by regulations made by the Secretary of State;

(f) the purposes of functions that a person has in his capacity as a person in the service of Her Majesty.

 

 

 

8 hours ago, _stylian_ said:

He's a registered retailer.

 

Registered how?  With whom?  There's is no licence to import, manufacture, modify, sell (or to provide a defence for selling) airsoft RIFs.

 

There is a defence of "the course of carrying on any trade or business", but that applies only to importer and importers, not to selling.

 

I know this seems curious, but strictly speaking, I don't believe that there is a defence for selling to a retailer, since you cannot know to what purpose the retailer will put the RIF.

 

Practically speaking, pffft, nobody, anywhere, ever, is going to care.

[GeorgePlaysAirsoft]

6 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

 

Oh hai.  Can you point out to which of these actual defences you think that you're [Accidently snipped off too much]

 

None of those defences are actually the ones that cover airsoft, as our defence is in a statutory instrument not the act itself. 

 

You are of course right that nobody will actually care. But in the worst case I think if you sold to airsoft imports you could demonstrate that it was for the purposes of either/both 2 A + B of the SI - albeit by proxy.

 

Edit: for this reason there is may be a case to be made that selling to a retailer (espicially one like airsoft imports who also organise events aka permitted activities) being a safer option then selling to some chap on a forum with a ukara number.

 

But for better or for worse we will probably never know!

[Rogerborg]

3 hours ago, GeorgePlaysAirsoft said:

None of those defences are actually the ones that cover airsoft, as our defence is in a statutory instrument not the act itself. 

 

Technically, it's in a explanatory circular about the SI, not in the SI itself.

 

[GeorgePlaysAirsoft]

22 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

 

Technically, it's in a explanatory circular about the SI, not in the SI itself.

 

 

The defence is contained within regulation 3 of the SI.

[Tommikka]

Bottom line is that retailers do not have a defence due to being a retailer.

 

But for a seller, there is sufficient information on their website that any second hand RIF passed through Airsoft imports would be sold with the intent that it gets sold on in line with ‘Airsoft skirmishing’.

The same could not be said for a different retailer who runs an ‘insurance’ scheme for an invalid defence.

[Rogerborg]

2 hours ago, GeorgePlaysAirsoft said:

 

The defence is contained within regulation 3 of the SI.

 

Eh, OK, the defence of "permitted activities" appears there.

 

However, the word "airsoft" doesn't appear until Home Office circular 031 / 2007, the "What the Home Secretary meant to say in the SI..." post-it note.

[GeorgePlaysAirsoft]

👍

[Rogerborg]

👌