ASG Aug Ultimate hop up unit problems

[Dawnrazor]

Hi,
I'm installing a new bucking and upgrading to the metal ASG Ultimate series AUG hop up unit, the problem is the little locking ring, (not the centering ring) the one with the three prongs in the middle, how and where does it fit? I thought it was supposed to hold the pin in place, but when I insert the pin through the hop up arm with the nub in place, the pin sits completely flush with the hop up unit, what am I doing wrong? The bucking is on, no problem, then when I slide the hop up unit on and attach the centering ring, I slip the hop up arm and nub into place and put the pin in to hold the arm in place, where is the little washer-type locking ring (the 5mm-ish washer with the three prongs pointing inward) meant to go, I thought it went on the opposite side of the pin to stop it from dropping out during use?
Any help would be really aprreciated as I'm just scratching my head trying to work out where it's meant to fit.
I've never upgraded a hop up unit before and there's no instructions on where it's meant to go.

Thanks in advance, 

 

Matt.

[Samurai]

[Nick G]

I had the same issue with mine, the hop arm pin isn't long enough to go through and for the clip to fit. I replaced the pin with a bolt and nut from my modelling spares box which sorted the problem for me.

[Iceni]

You're not doing anything wrong.

The 3 pronged ring isn't used on the AUG hop. I Don't know why Lonex and TM include it. None of the other units bothers with it. The Pin won't go anywhere with it missing.

[Dawnrazor]

12 minutes ago, Iceni said:

You're not doing anything wrong.

The 3 pronged ring isn't used on the AUG hop. I Don't know why Lonex and TM include it. None of the other units bothers with it. The Pin won't go anywhere with it missing.

 

That's the one, the little bit causing me such headaches.
If I push the pin through the hole (either way) it's really loose and just a tap and it falls out, will the pressure from the hop up ring on the arm against the nub provide enough friction to keep it in place?
I'm just worried that under the vibration of the gearbox the pin will just slip out as it's pretty loose.
It seems stupid to include it, I was convinced I was doing something wrong.
Seeing as the pin sits completely flush with the hop up unit, would it be worth grinding a millimetre or so off the raised section where the pin goes through with a Dremel and trying to fit the pin/clip on that way, I tried using the pin from the original plastic hop up unit, but that just falls straight through.
I'm not sure if I have any bolt or pin thin enough to replace it either, a tiny nut and bolt would've been ideal.

 

Whoever attempted to change the bucking before me managed to completely strip out one of the screws holding the outer barrel on, it took me ages to get the thing out, luckily I have some M2x5mm screws that are a perfect fit for the outer barrel, which is lucky, I hate to see what kind of a state the gearbox (hopefully no more stripped screws) and piston is in, that's my next job, clean and de-grease, then properly lube all the bushings, shims and gears as well as the inside of the cylinder and check the motor is engaging correctly. I hate to imagine the state of the piston head, hopefully when I replace the nozzle for the Ultimate series one it'll be less of a headache, just slot it into the tappet plate, right? If there are any damaged or worn O-rings, hopefully I have some that'll probably fit.

Working on this AUG is just killing me, it's chronoing low as well (235 FPS-ish), so I'll probably need a new spring, any suggestions for a spring to get it to 300 FPS and maybe one for 400FPS?

56 minutes ago, Samurai said:

 

Yep, that's the kit, that little ring won't fit on the pin, as the pin just sits flush with the hop up unit body on both sides.

[Iceni]

Those pins don't move. Just leave it off. 

Never had one move on any of my aug hops and I have a few different styles.

Once there's a bit of tension between the bucking nub and arm the arm will lock the pin, and make it harder to move out anyway.

[Nick G]

My jg AUG has an adjustable spring guide, have a look at the back of the gearbox , on mine you use a hex driver to wind the tension up. Worth checking before you split the box as its essentially the same set up

[Iceni]

The ASG A3 doesn't have a QC spring. It's a full gearbox split to get into it.

Safe bet for 350 is the ZCI M110 I believe @ak2m4 knows the exact spring for this.

Gearbox wise AUGs are pretty simple.

The only hard part is getting the trigger back in as the bar is pretty short, and they often don't locate well.

I think my A3 has the ultimate zir nozzle in atm and it's running without a problem.

Gear wise the stock 18:1 are o.k they should be the steel JG type.

One upgrade I would do for the AUG is adding an element silent head set (v3). (piston head/Cylinder head). It'll cut down on some of the piston slap. 

https://www.bullseyecountrysport.co.uk/element-airsoft-silent-piston-head--cylinder-set-for-v23-gear-mech-boxes-17109-p.asp

 

Outside of that one upgrade it's just standard AEG upgrades.

Correct Bushings (I can't remember if 6 or 7mm)
Shimmed
And if you are feeling adventurous there are motor and gear upgrades to increase ROF and trigger response depending on what you want the gun to do, and what batteries you are going to run with.

 

[Dawnrazor]

1 minute ago, Iceni said:

Those pins don't move. Just leave it off. 

Never had one move on any of my aug hops and I have a few different styles.

Once there's a bit of tension between the bucking nub and arm the arm will lock the pin, and make it harder to move out anyway.

 

Great stuff, thanks, I hoped the tension of the nub and hop up dial would keep the arm in place. It still suffers from the common problem of not firing semi-auto properly, it'll either burst or not fire at all sometimes, I'll crack open the gearbox tomorrow probably and have a look at the trigger contacts, that may be another fix!

Anyone think it's worth getting a cheaper rifle like a used G&G FN F2000 or CYMA P90 (I just love bullpups and anything that doesn't look like an M4 or AK) or waiting a bit longer and getting a programmable MOSFET-ed ASG Hera Arms CQR for about twice the price and a Nuprol Raven EU17 GBB Pistol brand new from my local retailer?

[Nick G]

4 minutes ago, Iceni said:

The ASG A3 doesn't have a QC spring. It's a full gearbox split to get into it.

Safe bet for 350 is the ZCI M110 I believe @ak2m4 knows the exact spring for this.

Gearbox wise AUGs are pretty simple.

The only hard part is getting the trigger back in as the bar is pretty short, and they often don't locate well.

I think my A3 has the ultimate zir nozzle in atm and it's running without a problem.

Gear wise the stock 18:1 are o.k they should be the steel JG type.

One upgrade I would do for the AUG is adding an element silent head set (v3). (piston head/Cylinder head). It'll cut down on some of the piston slap. 

https://www.bullseyecountrysport.co.uk/element-airsoft-silent-piston-head--cylinder-set-for-v23-gear-mech-boxes-17109-p.asp

 

Outside of that one upgrade it's just standard AEG upgrades.

Correct Bushings (I can't remember if 6 or 7mm)
Shimmed
And if you are feeling adventurous there are motor and gear upgrades to increase ROF and trigger response depending on what you want the gun to do, and what batteries you are going to run with.

 

It's not a QC system on the JG either, if you want to change the spring you have to split the box. But the spring guide has a hex bolt built in that allows you to increase tension on the spring without splitting the box. Hex driver just goes into the back of the guide and winds it out . No mention of the feature on any literature or suppliers sites. Only spotted it once I had split the box ! 

[Iceni]

1 minute ago, Dawnrazor said:

Great stuff, thanks, I hoped the tension of the nub and hop up dial would keep the arm in place. It still suffers from the common problem of not firing semi-auto properly, it'll either burst or not fire at all sometimes, I'll crack open the gearbox tomorrow probably and have a look at the trigger contacts, that may be another fix!

Normally it's semi that cocks up on them. Full auto is just a metal plate there is very little to go wrong there.

Semi doesn't have a selector, It's a set of AK contacts at the front of the gearbox, And it's always on. Chances are the dolly needs replacing but it's often just as easy to pick up a new set of contacts. Standard V3 contacts will be fine but you may have to solder them into the existing loom. Typically a switch is about £5.

The most common fault outside of the dolly jamming is the contacts spreading. It's an easy fix but requires a bit of skill to get the gap right. Too tight it'll bind the dolly, too slack it won't contact.

For the AUG you can fit in a basic Fet if you can solder. I've put in gate nano hards, Xcoretech XET 304u's, and Acemos units into augs without problems, just with careful wire management.

 

[Dawnrazor]

1 minute ago, Iceni said:

The ASG A3 doesn't have a QC spring. It's a full gearbox split to get into it.

Safe bet for 350 is the ZCI M110 I believe @ak2m4 knows the exact spring for this.

Gearbox wise AUGs are pretty simple.

The only hard part is getting the trigger back in as the bar is pretty short, and they often don't locate well.

I think my A3 has the ultimate zir nozzle in atm and it's running without a problem.

Gear wise the stock 18:1 are o.k they should be the steel JG type.

One upgrade I would do for the AUG is adding an element silent head set (v3). (piston head/Cylinder head). It'll cut down on some of the piston slap. 

https://www.bullseyecountrysport.co.uk/element-airsoft-silent-piston-head--cylinder-set-for-v23-gear-mech-boxes-17109-p.asp

 

Outside of that one upgrade it's just standard AEG upgrades.

Correct Bushings (I can't remember if 6 or 7mm)
Shimmed
And if you are feeling adventurous there are motor and gear upgrades to increase ROF and trigger response depending on what you want the gun to do, and what batteries you are going to run with.

 

 

I'm going to need to open up the gearbox to clean the gunk out of there and re-lube it properly, the previous owner messed up so many things I have to fix, like stripped screws and just butchering his maintenence.
I just run my ASG AUG A3 with a Nuprol PEQ 7.2v LiPo rather than the 8.4v Ni-Mh, it seems to work ok, apart from the problems i mentioned about it not always firing semi-auto, either firing a burst or not at all, but full-auto is fine. 
I'll check out the link you sent me though. Thanks for that.
I'm not planning on doing any motor or gear upgrades, it does 21-ish RPS, although, like I said the chrono is a bit low, so a higher spring load might slow that down a bit, but it's controllable.

2 minutes ago, Iceni said:

Normally it's semi that cocks up on them. Full auto is just a metal plate there is very little to go wrong there.

Semi doesn't have a selector, It's a set of AK contacts at the front of the gearbox, And it's always on. Chances are the dolly needs replacing but it's often just as easy to pick up a new set of contacts. Standard V3 contacts will be fine but you may have to solder them into the existing loom. Typically a switch is about £5.

The most common fault outside of the dolly jamming is the contacts spreading. It's an easy fix but requires a bit of skill to get the gap right. Too tight it'll bind the dolly, too slack it won't contact.

For the AUG you can fit in a basic Fet if you can solder. I've put in gate nano hards, Xcoretech XET 304u's, and Acemos units into augs without problems, just with careful wire management.

 

 

I'll have to look into a Fet then, I can solder, so that shouldn't be an issue really, it's just fitting and placement.
When I split the gearbox, I'll check the contacts, they probably have never been cleaned by the previous owner so probably need a bit of adjustment and cleaning.
Do you know where I can get V3 contacts or dolly?

Cheers for your help.
I'm still undecided about my next rifle, a used G&G FN F2000 or CYMA P90 or wait and get a brand new ASG Hera Arms CQR with programmable 'Fet.

[Nick G]

fair enough if you are going to have to open it anyway. Just out of curiosity though , take a look at the spring guide , would be useful to know if it has got the adjustment feature. I run mine on 7.2v lipo's too and it's at about 300 fps with my stock spring wound to max

[Dawnrazor]

Just now, Nick G said:

fair enough if you are going to have to open it anyway. Just out of curiosity though , take a look at the spring guide , would be useful to know if it has got the adjustment feature. I run mine on 7.2v lipo's too and it's at about 300 fps with my stock spring wound to max

I'll have a look tomorrow, today was fitting the upper reciever parts (still not finished) and tomorrow I was going to crack open and clean the gearbox and re-lube it properly, to wind up the spring tension is it CW or CCW? It's just an allen key you need isn't it?

[Nick G]

yep on mine it's just an allen key and from memory it's clockwise. you should see the guide moving as you wind it on. The guide is a 2 piece system , good idea for fine tuning the fps, my latest jg MP5 has the same system

[Iceni]

32 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

Do you know where I can get V3 contacts or dolly?

Pretty much any airsoft shop. V3 is the second most common gearbox.

I would inspect yours first. Make a note of the shape of the dolly and check for contact blackening. No point buying one if you don't have to.

https://www.bullseyecountrysport.co.uk/shs-v3-trigger-switch-5646-p.asp

 

I've not use that particular switch before. It should fit. There's always a chance with airsoft that it doesn't even if it's the right part!

[Philby21]

Bullseye Country Sport are good but if you're thinking of a new spring and go to @ak2m4 then you'll be better off saving on postage and getting the trigger switch from him too, he's a regular visitor on here and one of the best retailers to deal with and gives very good advice.  And he doesn't charge a ridiculous amount for postage!!

 

Link for the trigger switch is here.

[Dawnrazor]

8 minutes ago, Iceni said:

Pretty much any airsoft shop. V3 is the second most common gearbox.

I would inspect yours first. Make a note of the shape of the dolly and check for contact blackening. No point buying one if you don't have to.

https://www.bullseyecountrysport.co.uk/shs-v3-trigger-switch-5646-p.asp

 

I've not use that particular switch before. It should fit. There's always a chance with airsoft that it doesn't even if it's the right part!

 

Thanks, I'll probably find out tomorrow if theres any blackening on the contacts, the previous owner only used an 8.4v Ni-Mh and I use a 7.4v Nuprol PEQ LiPo, so I doubt there's any serious issues, just in need of a good clean and re-lube probably and make sure everything is working ok once I put it all back together. I might just try a dab of superglue on the very end of the pin in the new hop up unit, just to be sure.

 

3 minutes ago, Philby21 said:

Bullseye Country Sport are good but if you're thinking of a new spring and go to @ak2m4 then you'll be better off saving on postage and getting the trigger switch from him too, he's a regular visitor on here and one of the best retailers to deal with and gives very good advice.  And he doesn't charge a ridiculous amount for postage!!

 

Link for the trigger switch is here.

 

Awesome, that's great, some retailers charge ridiculous amounts, almost as much as the part itself which is really off-putting, I'll check out the trigger switch and I may not even need a new spring, it is a few years old, so it may have lost it's "springiness" a little?

I'll try dialling it up with an allen key and look into getting one of those sound dampeners, although the postage is really high on those parts.

[Iceni]

1 hour ago, Dawnrazor said:

although the postage is really high on those parts

I only linked to BCS because I knew they had the part in stock. There's a good chance you'll find it on one of the other sites with better postage. I think I paid about £10 for my set but that was a long time ago now. 

Don't be tempted by the silent aluminium head set. It's almost as noisy as a standard head set.

BCS ebay shop is normally better on postage, adding £2-3 to the component price.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Element-Silent-Piston-Head-Cylinder-Set-for-V2-3-Airsoft-Replacement-0810-0809-/222387554458

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Element-Silent-Piston-Head-Cylinder/dp/B01N7RKBBH

 

If the gearbox is stock it'll also be running nylon bushings. So I would factor a set of steel ones into the budget as well. AK2M4 should have stock in the right size.

[Dawnrazor]

2 minutes ago, Iceni said:

I only linked to BCS because I knew they had the part in stock. There's a good chance you'll find it on one of the other sites with better postage. I think I paid about £10 for my set but that was a long time ago now. 

Don't be tempted by the silent aluminium head set. It's almost as noisy as a standard head set.

BCS ebay shop is normally better on postage, adding £2-3 to the component price.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Element-Silent-Piston-Head-Cylinder-Set-for-V2-3-Airsoft-Replacement-0810-0809-/222387554458

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Element-Silent-Piston-Head-Cylinder/dp/B01N7RKBBH

 

If the gearbox is stock it'll also be running nylon bushings. So I would factor a set of steel ones into the budget as well. AK2M4 should have stock in the right size.

The Ebay and Amazon price is pretty good, £15 is more than acceptable, especially with free postage it's still less than BCS by a few quid when you factor in postage.

My AUG is stock gearbox (probably, seeing as the muppet who I got my AUG from stripped one of the screw heads completely that was holding in the inner barrel), it took me an hour to get it out with some careful Dremel work and a lot of torque on a flat head screwdriver, luckily I have around 100 M2x5mm screws for fixing laptops and Nerf flywheel cage motor mounts. I'll probably end up having to get a couple of sets of steel bushings for my other rifle with the almost identical gearbox, are the steel bushings expensive? It'll probably need shimming too, but that's not on my agenda right now, first I have to clean up the mess that is the gearbox in my AUG, I just managed to fit the new Ultimate Hop UP unit, finally!
The pin stays where it's supposed to with the pressure from the hop up wheel and the nub, it's a noticeable difference just looking down the inner barrel and adjusting the hop, much better than the stock one and while I was there I cleared out all the grime that had accumulated from the previous owner's BB's (I think he was using under .20g's, shameful!) I tend to use ASG Blaster .20g or .25g BB's, like a real person should anything less is a waste of time in my opinion, I may be wrong.
I'll have to browse AK2M4's stock as I may need some other stuff that'll cost me an arm and a leg, if not both legs from JD Airsoft, I'm not knocking JD, but the prices are really steep, and they don't even stock Krytac guns and their optics are expensive, I got a holosight from Amazon that cost me £20, they were selling them for nearly £60!. I may get my sidearm from them though, the Nuprol EU17 Raven looks good for £90 and it's full-auto capable, which may blow through a mag and gas fast, but worth it.
Out of interest, would you go with Green Gas or CO2 mags for your pistol? I know Green Gas is within the FPS limits of my local indoor field, but not CO2, I heard you can tune down CO2 though, is that true?

Many thanks for the links and helping me out with things I didn't even know existed, like the Silent Aluminium Head Set, does it make a real, noticeable difference to AEG's, especially bullpups where the gearbox is right next to your head when shooting?

Cheers,

 

Matt.

 

[Iceni]

Bushings are cheap. £4-6 a set. But they do come in various sizes, and each gearbox can be unique. So measure yours.

Some would argue bearings are better, but that's only true in certain situations. For a gun you are using and want to run for as long as possible between service intervals go with bushings.

For a pistol CO2 - but make sure they don't shoot hot. Lots of CO2 pistols are very hot. KJ works generally have a few in the range that ain't going to break the bank and will be sub 350 on CO2.
https://www.fire-support.co.uk/product/kj-kp-17-g17-co2-blowback-pistol-black


The headset changes the sound the gun makes. It doesn't make it silent. But it changes the sharp crack of the piston into a more manageable thud. There are other mods you can do to the AUG as well:

Shimming done well.
Motor height done well.
Silent headset (plastic type -- metal cylinder head).
Solid spring guide (solid brass deepfire ones are best but can be expensive £10-25 depending on retailer).
Well greased mainspring.
Packing the body with foam.

A decent suppressor.

With all that in place, you can make an AUG sound like a normal gun to the shooter. To the other players outside of about 10 meters, it'll be silent. I can shoot mine done like the above in the house and the wife doesn't know I'm playing with it when she's downstairs.

Edit:

I didn't explain the Spring Guide.

Mass is a critical factor in noise generation. The less mass an object has the more likely it is to transfer sound to the air, and the higher the pitch of that tone, like a cymbal. High pitch noises are easy to pinpoint by ear but do not travel so far in air.

Adding mass acts to absorb energy and releases the energy at a lower tone. The lower tone is much harder to pinpoint, and whilst the sound will travel further, it will be masked by other ambient background noise. This will reduce a lot of the spring twang, And a significant amount of the higher pitched tones made by the piston slapping.

Best way to understand is to think of a motorbike and a truck. Stood next to both the truck is louder. At distance, you can pinpoint the motorbike but will struggle to even hear the truck and have no chance at pinpointing it. Lowering the tone of the gun has the same effect, You can pinpoint the crackers, but not the thudders.

 

[Dawnrazor]

Thanks for the in-depth explanation, it makes sense scientifically.
I think my shimming is ok, but I'll probably need a set of new shims anyway as mine are most likely nylon as well as decent bearings/bushings, I haven't tried adjusting the motor height yet, but as far as I know it's just a matter of tuning it from the bottom of the motor housing to allign it correctly with the first gear, (I can never remember the names, just where they go!).

I was considering getting the Nuprol EU17 Raven with Green Gas mags, as it doesn't matter so much if you waste a bit of Green Gas and purging it after a game, rather than just having to bin a newly installed CO2 canister that you never ended up using, CO2 does give a better blow-back though.

Just out of interest, why do you grease your mainspring and with what type of grease? A heavier weight 2HT Silicone grease or something thinner?

Cheers for the advice, got some work ahead of me and some parts to buy and install, I'll definitely be looking at getting a new spring and a silent headset.

[Iceni]

I only grease the spring in the AUG for noise. None of my other guns have ever had the treatment.

It's used to stop spring twang. Only bullpups suffer this, and the grease just stops the spring ringing out like a bell.

The grease wants to be thick and sticky, ATM mine is coated in red rubber grease.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GENUINE-CASTROL-RED-RUBBER-GREASE-100g-BRAKE-CALIPER-REBUILDS/390893301672?hash=item5b030e6fa8:g:AnsAAOSwVExasBWi

[CrackCommandoUnit1972]

22 hours ago, Dawnrazor said:

Hi,
I'm installing a new bucking and upgrading to the metal ASG Ultimate series AUG hop up unit, the problem is the little locking ring, (not the centering ring) the one with the three prongs in the middle, how and where does it fit? I thought it was supposed to hold the pin in place, but when I insert the pin through the hop up arm with the nub in place, the pin sits completely flush with the hop up unit, what am I doing wrong? The bucking is on, no problem, then when I slide the hop up unit on and attach the centering ring, I slip the hop up arm and nub into place and put the pin in to hold the arm in place, where is the little washer-type locking ring (the 5mm-ish washer with the three prongs pointing inward) meant to go, I thought it went on the opposite side of the pin to stop it from dropping out during use?
Any help would be really aprreciated as I'm just scratching my head trying to work out where it's meant to fit.
I've never upgraded a hop up unit before and there's no instructions on where it's meant to go.

Thanks in advance, 

 

Matt.

How did you get on with the hop unit? I have an ASG AUG and was thinking about installing one of these. Is it any better than the standard hop unit that comes with the gun?

[Dawnrazor]

Just now, CrackCommandoUnit1972 said:

How did you get on with the hop unit? I have an ASG AUG and was thinking about installing one of these. Is it any better than the standard hop unit that comes with the gun?

 

It was fiddly to get the old one off as the previous owner had stripped one of the outer barrel retaining screws beyond repair, it took me about an hour to get the thing out. Luckily I have some spare M2x5mm screws to replace it. Also it felt like he's locktighted the hop unit on so I had to use a slip-jaw wrench to pull the plastic unit off, (grab the hop unit with the wrench, not the barrel though as it's brass and you can permanatly damage it beyond repair as brass is pretty soft), you may damage your plastic hop unit beyond repair as well as the bucking if it's as tight as mine was, so with a bit of elbow grease and some de-greaser on the barrel to clean it up, the new bucking (a 50 Degree ASG Bucking) slid on fine, just be careful not to snag it on sharp edges and make sure the groove on the barrel is alligned with the line inside the bucking and it sits completely flush over the inner barrel and all the way down.
The actual Ultimate Series metal hop unit slid on fine, I used a tiny bit of silicone lube, the thin stuff, and made sure the bucking didn't bunch up inside the hop unit.
Once it was on and the guys here informed me that I didn't need the tiny locking washer, I just put a dab of silicone lube on the nub to keep it in the arm, dropped the arm in place, popped in the pin, aligned the hop up unit and attached alligning ring, then the retaining c-clip, then the hop up dial and then clicked the lock for the dial on. It worked just perfectly, I shot a few rounds through it and it was noticeably better, I think the old bucking was a bit worn and the hop unit looks really nice and shiny through the access port, more importantly, it seems to feed well and consistently, I have yet to dial in my hop up to get it perfect, but it really does the job and looks the part. (I did also mark in silver sharpie whick way was "up" on the locking ring, as I always forget and spend ages fiddling with it, then trying to zero my RDS, yeah, I'm that dumb, so if I can do it, pretty much anyone can!)

Overall, yeah, it was worth the time and the money, plus the sweat and panic thinking I was doing something wrong until these kind folk here helped me out almost immidiately.
So I say go do it, you'll notice the difference (especially if your bucking was as f'd up as mine, you could barely notice any hop at all), it's easy and works and looks great, I can post a photo of it if you like of it installed?
It performs a lot better (well, in my case) and looks so much more premium than the stock black plastic one, so shiny!

I hope that helps, I should do my gearbox today, but I think I'll wait until I get a new Main Spring and Element Silent Piston Head & Cylinder Set and maybe a new Spring Guide, saves me taking the gearbox apart twice.