Aengus Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 All valid points. One of my suggestions is (this would be pretty far in the future) multiple leagues or divisions just like in motorsport so as long as you can afford the requirements nobody should have an advantage. You still have to remember that’s about as nice as kit gets and compared to hardcore milsim it must be looking quite good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Operation Speed Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 4 hours ago, ACA said: Hi, I'm glad you have posted a reply, I'm especially interested in your thoughts on how you see this side of Airsoft going. Are you planning to roll this style out over the country at other sites? Will it be a monopoly owned & ran by you? Do you plan to team up with other site owners to create a league? I have more questions and more are likely to follow your reply. This all may read a little brash but just asking to get a feel for what's going on. My survey, I hope, will give the ability for all that fill it in to, air their opinion on how they would deal with the issues they personally experience along with answering issues raised by others. it's not intended for a place to spout off about who or what is the worst at anything. Only a positive way of dealing with them. P.S. I've looked at all the previous surveys that I could get to open and almost all are sales lead, mine isn't at all. I'm not really looking at making a monopoly out of it (it would be cool though) i'm more interested at bringing Speedsoft to the masses and showing the UK airsoft community that we're not bad people. I also host and organise the "UK SpeedSoft Tour" as i call it where i get a bunch of like minded speedsofters and we travel the country going site to site to show the regular players and marshalls alike that we do abide by the rules and we are only here to have fun just like everyone else! I'm actually currently working with a number of sites across the country to help them build their very own speedsoft style arena, To name a few: Skirmish - The Stan, S.W.A.T KYLN, District 23, HALO MILL and the list goes on. My only goal is to give speedsoft a good name in the airsoft community. It's not fair that we are all belittled by people who've never even met us or played with/against us. I have a full dedicated team of players who share my views! We do it for the love of the sport And yes i will be running a league 3 hours ago, Druid799 said: As obvious as you enthusiasm for this is (and it is !)but after watching it im not sure if it’s as the film is just your perspective (it’s your head cam) but hand on heart mate I didn’t see any tactics to speak of in your film at all it was just run/dive/get to the other side as quick as possible and take out the other players on the way . Sorry bud , yes there is a place for it and anyone who says not is being a dick , I personally don’t know any players who’d really be that interested in this style of play . So yes i think it will taking off , just don’t see it getting that big . Obviously 1 video can't do it justice and i know that And in regards to tactics you'd be heavily supprised that there is a lot of tactics involved in our style of play! Obviously from an outside perspective it's all just "Run and gun and hope you hit something" but it's actually a lot more than that. Also the video is mainly of my team, i'm the guy running with the gold hi capa. Not a lot of us run cameras so it's difficult to get everyone perspective ya know? I tell you what buddy, come down to one of our training days, we tend to bring quite a few people with us as well, you'll get to meet the actuall UK Speedsoft scene and i'll pay for your green fee's so if halfway through the day you feel like it's not for you then so be it, you wouldn't have to pay for the day. I accept that it's not everyones cup of tea but i think it'll be good for you to have a hands on experiance with what we're trying to do, you never know we might change your opinion or maybe your opinion won't change, but you'll definatly see what it's all about no doubt! Like i said earlier i brought the manger of Halo Mill who loves his Gas blow back guns and is the furthest thing from a speedsofter you'll ever see, he gave it a go on one of our training days and he absolutely loved it, no dye mask, no HPA set up, just a GHK Gas AK, mesh mask and combat pants and he did an amazing job at learning our style, he's even putting together a milspeed style team to come join us in our tournaments. And you're right it will take off, it might not be big at the moment but we're gonna make it big! That's the end goal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Operation Speed Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 3 hours ago, Rogerborg said: I guess that depends on your definition of "feather and "pull" when you've got a hair trigger with a few mm of travel. To be clear, I'm talking about the shooting at 1:55 in this video: A stock AEG with a mechanical trigger can't come anywhere near that RoF. Fairness is neither here nor there, I'm not moralfagging. My pragmatic concern would be about how much someone with a typical budget AEG would enjoy going up against that. Inclusion and a low cost of entry is key to growing any sport. To be clear, my intention is to be constructive, I'm not pooh-poohing the concept. It looks like a blast, I'd be keen to give it a try. Honestly buddy you'd be supprised of how many of us who run HPA are now switching over to AEG/DSG builds. We have an ex pro paintball team play against us with stock G&G rifles and i tell you what they absolutely destroyed us! We even had a match where us HPA users could feather the trigger and we still got beat by stock AEG's it's not about how many shots you can throw down range. Trust me, i was shocked when we got beat by stock AEG's it really did bring light to our heavily modified guns thinking that we don't even need em! You should come down and give it a try, we're not the type of people to say "fuck milsim" because everyone has the own style of play and mine just so happens to be Speedsoft. I've learned a lot more tactics from playing speedsoft than i ever did playing milsim and that's just me! you could be the complete opposite, i will offer to you a free game day at our site just so you can give it a try, just like i've said to another player on that post. I'd much rather you come down and try it for your self so you can get a hands on experiance to see what it's actually all about! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Druid799 Posted September 7, 2018 Supporters Share Posted September 7, 2018 52 minutes ago, ImTriggerHappy said: As for young mans game bollocks to that I am 42 and won't stop running until my legs fall off. Old man speedsoft could be a thing, sponsored by Ralgex and Ibuprofen. Hahaha ! At a ‘normal’ skirmish I’m always at the front pushing forward (can’t abide the hangbacks you see shouting “push forward!”) but unfortunately no matter how willing the heart is this 51yr old body ain’t keeping up with 19yr old ! 😫 Looking back over my life I’ve not so much burnt the candle at both ends more like I took a blowtorch to the middle of it ! 😳 but wouldn’t have changed a thing !😈 so yup for me ? It’s a young boys game ! 🤣🤣🤣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACA Posted September 7, 2018 Author Share Posted September 7, 2018 16 minutes ago, Operation Speed said: I'm not really looking at making a monopoly out of it (it would be cool though) i'm more interested at bringing Speedsoft to the masses and showing the UK airsoft community that we're not bad people. I also host and organise the "UK SpeedSoft Tour" as i call it where i get a bunch of like minded speedsofters and we travel the country going site to site to show the regular players and marshalls alike that we do abide by the rules and we are only here to have fun just like everyone else! I'm actually currently working with a number of sites across the country to help them build their very own speedsoft style arena, To name a few: Skirmish - The Stan, S.W.A.T KYLN, District 23, HALO MILL and the list goes on. My only goal is to give speedsoft a good name in the airsoft community. It's not fair that we are all belittled by people who've never even met us or played with/against us. I have a full dedicated team of players who share my views! We do it for the love of the sport And yes i will be running a league Obviously 1 video can't do it justice and i know that And in regards to tactics you'd be heavily supprised that there is a lot of tactics involved in our style of play! Obviously from an outside perspective it's all just "Run and gun and hope you hit something" but it's actually a lot more than that. Also the video is mainly of my team, i'm the guy running with the gold hi capa. Not a lot of us run cameras so it's difficult to get everyone perspective ya know? I tell you what buddy, come down to one of our training days, we tend to bring quite a few people with us as well, you'll get to meet the actuall UK Speedsoft scene and i'll pay for your green fee's so if halfway through the day you feel like it's not for you then so be it, you wouldn't have to pay for the day. I accept that it's not everyones cup of tea but i think it'll be good for you to have a hands on experiance with what we're trying to do, you never know we might change your opinion or maybe your opinion won't change, but you'll definatly see what it's all about no doubt! Like i said earlier i brought the manger of Halo Mill who loves his Gas blow back guns and is the furthest thing from a speedsofter you'll ever see, he gave it a go on one of our training days and he absolutely loved it, no dye mask, no HPA set up, just a GHK Gas AK, mesh mask and combat pants and he did an amazing job at learning our style, he's even putting together a milspeed style team to come join us in our tournaments. And you're right it will take off, it might not be big at the moment but we're gonna make it big! That's the end goal Is there a specific size of playing area - what is it?, Do they all use the same number of bunkers in the same layout and the same shapes? - How many? whats the layout? what are the shapes? I guess they will use the same site & gameplay rules as each other. Do they all use the same game style i.e. flag / button? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Operation Speed Posted September 7, 2018 Share Posted September 7, 2018 1 hour ago, ACA said: Is there a specific size of playing area - what is it?, Do they all use the same number of bunkers in the same layout and the same shapes? - How many? whats the layout? what are the shapes? I guess they will use the same site & gameplay rules as each other. Do they all use the same game style i.e. flag / button? I don't have the size of our field to hand but we always change the layout to keep it fresh and to keep players on their toes ect, at the moment we're running off a "first team to touch the opposing teams starting gate wins" rule. we have 3 main area which is: Snake, Jungle and T side. everything inbetween get's changed about to give new angles of fire ect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommikka Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 In Paintball tournaments when supair inflatables began every site pretty much had their own layouts and some unique bunkers - snakes looked like snakes, there was a fish and a “car wash” with tape/straps hanging in the centre Nobody knew what the layout would be, you turned up and had to walk the field to assess the layout Nowadays a tournament announces its layout approx at least a week in advance, you then look over the design to work out angles and some tactics then go to your training site to test those out A major international tournament announces the next layout and then pretty much every site in the country / world sets up that layout. Personally I like the old way - discover the field when you arrive In the UK the primary national tournament (CPPS) is in the Midlands. There is an event this weekend. Being in the midlands it is a reasonable travel distance so there has been a trend that many teams will have been there to train/practice the layout last weekend. A few years back teams would have been to practice the layout at a more local site. But that means all the sites across the country offering training have to keep up to date with bunker changes each year. No real problem with layout changes - just print it off and change the layout, but if a new bunker design is added for the year then you have to buy a new one or you have instantly lost the ability to layout a field. Major sites such as CPPS will buy a complete new field set anyway, but minor sites can’t afford that. To sustain the inflatable cost, and the labour to layout, clean down and pack away a field every day is expensive - are you going to regularly attract enough regular teams, and as they improve are they going to stay for practice or will they head up to CPPS to practice / skirmish with (and watch) the teams they will compete with - and also practice / skirmish with better / higher league teams to their improvement Local fields across the country have difficulty sustaining their fields. This is where speedsoft can really come in. A field can cater for both, the only key difference being that paint is being wiped off bunkers during the day with squeegees and pressure washed off at the end of the day. Stick to common standards already in place for paintball and the two flavours can complement each other There is a standard size for a speedball field, it’s possible to operate on smaller fields but the layouts won’t fit. Add to the specified dimensions to cater for a boundary area before the netting is put up The Super5ives field at Ambush Botley (Southampton) is exactly as wide as the field dimension. This has the disadvantages that there is no off field boundary for an eliminated player to head to on the way out, for sideline Marshall’s to keep out of the way (and enforce players who step across out of bounds) and for photographers to be on field but out of the way (but that did mean I could lean in & step in as far as I wanted to catch the perfect photo without being in trouble as long as I didn’t interfere with play) Rules do need to be set, it won’t really work to have multiple ROFs for different types of gun etc, set some maximums or have different classes. Different classes / divisions will be difficult in early days. Decide if coaching is allowed - that is someone on the sidelines shouting out what’s happening, this takes skill away from the player and is a disadvantage for the player who has been crawling and sneaking up the snake when the opposition have forgotten about them. Decide on scoring - not only on the first to hit the buzzer / get to the opposing home bunker. But what about when the game takes too long in stalemate, (perhaps the side that had a player that gained most ground takes the win) or how do you differentiate between teams who have all won the same number of games Make wins the primary score, then count the live players on each side A win with all 5 of your players alive and all 5 of the opposition eliminated is better than a win from running to the buzzer and leaving everyone alive Also how about how the win is chosen - hitting the buzzer is winning the game, or maybe the best of 3 Best of 3 would work as: Game one - team A wins Game two - team A wins That means team A takes the point Game one - team A wins Game two - team B wins Game three decides who takes the point Add to that a combined time clock, eg 5 minutes Game one - team A wins, but it’s a hard battle and takes 3 minutes Then team A only need another win with 2 minutes on the clock, but team B need to make two wins in a row in those two minutes etc Along with scoring decide how to progress the games. Elimination rounds mean that you could be going home after your first game, and assuming there is one division/league it’s the luck of the draw about who you are up against A round robin puts everyone in for a set number of games, you could be playing the best or first timers each game Then following the round robin possibly go onto semi finals and finals on an elimination basis for the leading teams On the point of view of what happens when you bring in competition and prizes, we’re British In Paintball and CPPS it gets cut throat on field, but then you see that the teams are all mates off field. It’s very common to see players from one team going on field with another to make up the numbers - and trying to win while doing so Some people are dicks of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommikka Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 For reference check out the Paintball rules for recent years NXL have set the current US rules and have bought the international tournament that covers Europe https://www.nxlpaintball.com/us-rulebook-xball There is also WPBO who tried to set a world standard with a couple of optional rules in some places - this was still dramatic with many US players particularly resistant to change, or that it’s fine to have one rule as long as it’s their rule http://www.okpb.co.uk/downloads/wpbo-rules-1-2.pdf They are worth a run through, take the rules that would apply / make the appropriate adjustment for airsoft and get an overview of what situations could arise to require a rule Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Druid799 Posted September 8, 2018 Supporters Share Posted September 8, 2018 21 minutes ago, Tommikka said: Nowadays a tournament announces its layout approx at least a week in advance, you then look over the design to work out angles and some tactics then go to your training site to test those out A major international tournament announces the next layout and then pretty much every site in the country / world sets up that layout. Personally I like the old way - discover the field when you arrive On the point of view of what happens when you bring in competition and prizes, we’re British In Paintball and CPPS it gets cut throat on field, but then you see that the teams are all mates off field. It’s very common to see players from one team going on field with another to make up the numbers - and trying to win while doing so Some people are dicks of course . Already know the layout of the game zone before you even arrive? ! 😳 “ok chaps let’s plan out our game strategy then the wk before” ????? You’ll be telling us you get told where to stand next ! 🤦♂️😁 deffo turn up and find out !👍 sounds like rugby , killing each other on the pitch then all laughing about it afterwards in the bar ! 🤣🤣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommikka Posted September 8, 2018 Share Posted September 8, 2018 36 minutes ago, Druid799 said: Already know the layout of the game zone before you even arrive? ! 😳 “ok chaps let’s plan out our game strategy then the wk before” ????? You’ll be telling us you get told where to stand next ! 🤦♂️😁 deffo turn up and find out !👍 sounds like rugby , killing each other on the pitch then all laughing about it afterwards in the bar ! 🤣🤣 That’s spot on about how it is, I’ll look in a minute and see if I have a “play diagram” (Maybe I won’t get one out but imagine the map on the millenium page with lines indicating where you should be concentrating on. Instead of everyone watching everywhere, you are allocated arcs of fire) But it works as: 1) layouts get published 2) the team captain / expert gets his rulers out and works out what you can see / shoot at from each bunker 3) works out the ‘primaries’, which are where each player is to run to first 4) sets a few ‘plays’ (which primaries and what to do next) 5) the team test them out - also seeing whether the angles really work, and if it’s possible to get more angle by shooting an arc over head 6) on the day they confirm the angles are still there and pick which play to use on each game - making sure they don’t stick to one thing, and possibly having a stupid ‘rush’ play that can be used once where everyone just runs straight down the field The rugby analogy is also exactly right A field layout with the overview map plus a 3d rendition: http://www.millennium-series.com/events.php?event=T3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Druid799 Posted September 8, 2018 Supporters Share Posted September 8, 2018 I’ll be honest mate this is even more of a reason I wouldn’t want to take part my self , years ago I was big in to archery , absolutely loved it . I shot welsh longbow (still do every now and again) but the whole competition archery scene did not appeal to me at all , all the counter weights/balance bars/trigger release finger knocks/ring sights I just didn’t see the appeal of it . For me it’s all about the personal skill NOT how good you can be with external assistance , when I was on the line and I was beaten I knew it was skill that had beaten me , not who had the most expensive kit , with longbow’s the cost of the bow is irrelevant , all an expensive bow will get you is greater range not greater accuracy that’s down to the bowman . So for me knowing the layout and where to place your team members and what arcs of fire to use is exactly the same as shooting with the competition bow , external influence is having a negative effect on the skill of the players to me . am glad to hear the good sportsmanship is present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Rogerborg Posted September 8, 2018 Supporters Share Posted September 8, 2018 36 minutes ago, Druid799 said: I shot welsh longbow (still do every now and again) but the whole competition archery scene did not appeal to me at all , all the counter weights/balance bars/trigger release finger knocks/ring sights I just didn’t see the appeal of it Huh, me too. Longbow and Mongol/Scythian stylee. I will admit to occasionally whipping a thread around the string as a nocking point, but otherwise it's as naked as I can get. Random aside, it might be a giggle to end days by handing out a bunch of £10 ~150fps springer pistols with one mag each, and seeing who can channel their John Wick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Druid799 Posted September 8, 2018 Supporters Share Posted September 8, 2018 2 minutes ago, Rogerborg said: Huh, me too. Longbow and Mongol/Scythian stylee. I will admit to occasionally whipping a thread around the string as a nocking point, but otherwise it's as naked as I can get. Me too bud , two wips of thread around the string to mark my nock point , archers of old did it too so more than acceptable . yes ! I quite like the idea of two teams of Lycra encased racing snakes whooning around the gamezone with really really shitty springers ! 🤣🤣🤣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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