Gun choice GR15 Raider vs GC16 300 BOT

[emilianoksa]

I have sold off some more stuff and will be acquiring an M4 in the low to middle area of the market, in the near future.

 

I'm looking for a CQB gun with a crane stock that will take a 9.6.

 

At the moment I am weighing the pros and cons of these two G&G models:

 

GR15 Raider Pros Appearance, metal rails, spring assist, working bolt handle, blowback(?), light weight, fairly cheap, rear wired for crane stock.

                       Cons  Plastic receiver, blowback (?), front sight not removable

 

https://www.zerooneairsoft.com/product_info.php?products_id=5775

 

GC16 300 BOT Pros Full metal but only about £30 more than the GR15, good size for CQB and rear wired for  crane stock, flip up sights

                           Cons Appearance a bit nondescript, no spring assist, no working bolt handle, no blowback (?), rail space at the front a bit limited  

 

https://www.zerooneairsoft.com/4430

 

I know that internally they are both standard combat machines, and the differences are mainly cosmetic, but which would you go for?

 

Of the Specna Arms guns available at Gunfire, which would be the obvious alternative to the above guns?

 

 

[emilianoksa]

People really don't seem to like G&G much, do they?

 

Even on an American forum I visit they are very unpopular with a lot of people. And yet they sell by the bucket load.

 

Since their externals are generally thought to be good the problem must be with their gearboxes or motors, or the fact that they spend too much time and money producing gimmicks that don't impress people. Of maybe they are just considered to be overpriced.

 

Yet Specna, a mainland Chinese company that rose to classic status almost overnight, tends to get lots of recommendations. Have they really been around long enough to have earned a reputation for reliability? I've come across a couple of reports of them breaking at the point where the stock buffer tube meets the receiver. I know all manufacturers produce the odd lemon and so I am not put off by this.

 

But just what is it that makes them better than G&G at a much lower price? I was always under the impression that Taiwan stuff was better than what came out of Hong Kong. I love the look of this one for example, but it just seems too good to be true at the price point:

 

https://gun-fire.co.uk/product-eng-1152214500-SA-K01-Assault-Rifle-Replica.html

 

How strong is the zinc-aluminium alloy, I ask myself. Is it really better than the Cyma pot metal? Are these guns ridiculously underpriced?

 

Hell, at that price, I suppose the best thing to do is buy one and find out.😄

 

There must be a reason people don't wax lyrical about some of the G&Gs.

 

 

[Ewan_Vs_Pigeon]

G&G seem to just work. Not bad, not the best.

They last years and the internals are so reliable, especially the GR series where you dont have the gimmick electric blowback. You wont go far wrong at all with a G&G, you'll have the peace of mind that you can just go to a skirmish or milsim, and have a good time, without worrying about performance.

 

Speaking of performance; they are so easily upgraded, pretty much anything on the market will fit a G&G, including pretty much any magazines, externals, and obviously V2 and V3 internals.

I had a G&G before the VFC416 and it was a good all rounder. Would suggest upgrading the hop unit but thats all.

 

Externals seem solid, the paint is thick and wont chip after a little knock, Ive dropped my G&G a lot and it just seems to take it and carry on flawlessly.

 

Hope this helps.

[Druid799]

What about something like this ? 

http://www.taiwangun.com/en/electric/cm-079a-p-j?from=listing&campaign-id=20

 

[E21A]

I love my G&G. It’s pretty light, accurate and got decent range, sounds good too. Build quality is excellent. The consistency out of the box shocked me as well, range of +/- 3fps

[emilianoksa]

9 hours ago, Druid799 said:

What about something like this ? 

http://www.taiwangun.com/en/electric/cm-079a-p-j?from=listing&campaign-id=20

 

Nice looking good price.

 

Claims to be made of aluminium.

 

Really? I thought Cyma used zamac pot metal for their guns. 

[Lozart]

11 hours ago, emilianoksa said:

People really don't seem to like G&G much, do they?

 

Even on an American forum I visit they are very unpopular with a lot of people. And yet they sell by the bucket load.

 

Since their externals are generally thought to be good the problem must be with their gearboxes or motors, or the fact that they spend too much time and money producing gimmicks that don't impress people. Of maybe they are just considered to be overpriced.

 

Yet Specna, a mainland Chinese company that rose to classic status almost overnight, tends to get lots of recommendations. Have they really been around long enough to have earned a reputation for reliability? I've come across a couple of reports of them breaking at the point where the stock buffer tube meets the receiver. I know all manufacturers produce the odd lemon and so I am not put off by this.

 

But just what is it that makes them better than G&G at a much lower price? I was always under the impression that Taiwan stuff was better than what came out of Hong Kong. I love the look of this one for example, but it just seems too good to be true at the price point:

 

https://gun-fire.co.uk/product-eng-1152214500-SA-K01-Assault-Rifle-Replica.html

 

How strong is the zinc-aluminium alloy, I ask myself. Is it really better than the Cyma pot metal? Are these guns ridiculously underpriced?

 

Hell, at that price, I suppose the best thing to do is buy one and find out.😄

 

There must be a reason people don't wax lyrical about some of the G&Gs.

 

 

 

Americans don't like G&G because they can run much higher FPS on their fields so anything that comes designed to run at 350FPS is automatically "garbage". Also - Americans are mostly a bit dumb.

 

A lot of the Specna internals are higher grade out of the box, the externals are generally very nice too (not always the way with G&G). The receivers breaking at the rear is not unknown across a great many different brands (or even in real ARs) but the Specna problems are mainly in the first run of the 416-alike SA-Hxx series. I understand that this has since been fixed.

 

The zinc-aluminium alloy IS the same as CYMA pot metal, is the same as G&G metal bodies and pretty much anything else in airsoft that isn't specifically labelled as steel or CNC aluminium. 

 

A couple of years ago you couldn't move for G&G fanboys but it seems that a lot of them have moved on. Airsoft is littered with companies that are flavour of the month until they make one small change that someone doesn't like then all of a sudden they're the "worst piece of shit ever". G&G did it with their first wave of factory fitted MOSFETs that were mostly rubbish and now any G&G falls into one of three camps - CM16 (BEST STARTER GUN EVA!!!!111!!!), anything with an ETU (IT'S SHIT DON'T BUY ONE IT'LL RAPE YOUR WIFE AND BURN YOUR HOUSE DOWN!!!!11!!!!!) or a Top Tech old Gen pre mosfet (Well, they're all right but why wouldn't you just buy a Krytac, may Krytac shoots lAZORS that can hit THA MOOOOON!!!!!). Airsoft is mostly played by people that are easily swayed by the latest shiny thing. Go figure.

Also - I like G&G. I have one, I've used several. I also like Specna Arms, Dytac, TM, A&K and many more besides. The vast majority of airsoft kit is absolutely fine and will work for YEARS without developing a serious fault. The few lemons are almost always jumped on and held up as a reason why nobody should ever buy a gun from that company ever again.

[emilianoksa]

Thanks Lozart for finally putting this to rest for me.

 

I promise I won't bring it up again.😁

 

I take your point about Americans. Whether it's airsoft or airguns, many appear to be power mad. And they seem to want to put 11.1 lipos in everything - even the cheapest Chinese guns.

 

And thanks for all the replies.

[E21A]

1 hour ago, Lozart said:

 

Americans don't like G&G because they can run much higher FPS on their fields so anything that comes designed to run at 350FPS is automatically "garbage". Also - Americans are mostly a bit dumb.

 

A lot of the Specna internals are higher grade out of the box, the externals are generally very nice too (not always the way with G&G). The receivers breaking at the rear is not unknown across a great many different brands (or even in real ARs) but the Specna problems are mainly in the first run of the 416-alike SA-Hxx series. I understand that this has since been fixed.

 

The zinc-aluminium alloy IS the same as CYMA pot metal, is the same as G&G metal bodies and pretty much anything else in airsoft that isn't specifically labelled as steel or CNC aluminium. 

 

A couple of years ago you couldn't move for G&G fanboys but it seems that a lot of them have moved on. Airsoft is littered with companies that are flavour of the month until they make one small change that someone doesn't like then all of a sudden they're the "worst piece of shit ever". G&G did it with their first wave of factory fitted MOSFETs that were mostly rubbish and now any G&G falls into one of three camps - CM16 (BEST STARTER GUN EVA!!!!111!!!), anything with an ETU (IT'S SHIT DON'T BUY ONE IT'LL RAPE YOUR WIFE AND BURN YOUR HOUSE DOWN!!!!11!!!!!) or a Top Tech old Gen pre mosfet (Well, they're all right but why wouldn't you just buy a Krytac, may Krytac shoots lAZORS that can hit THA MOOOOON!!!!!). Airsoft is mostly played by people that are easily swayed by the latest shiny thing. Go figure.

Also - I like G&G. I have one, I've used several. I also like Specna Arms, Dytac, TM, A&K and many more besides. The vast majority of airsoft kit is absolutely fine and will work for YEARS without developing a serious fault. The few lemons are almost always jumped on and held up as a reason why nobody should ever buy a gun from that company ever again.

 

You seem like you’ve got your head screwed on. Kudos 

[Lozart]

18 minutes ago, E21A said:

 

You seem like you’ve got your head screwed on. Kudos 

[Lozart]

37 minutes ago, emilianoksa said:

Thanks Lozart for finally putting this to rest for me.

 

I promise I won't bring it up again.😁

 

I take your point about Americans. Whether it's airsoft or airguns, many appear to be power mad. And they seem to want to put 11.1 lipos in everything - even the cheapest Chinese guns.

 

And thanks for all the replies.

 

You're welcome. I like people like you that ask sensible, considered questions. I was in the exact same position when I started out so I'm happy to try and pass on what I learned through trial and (often expensive) error!

[Rogerborg]

Obligatory:

 

 

All I'll say is that I like my workmate's G&G CM16 Raider L.  It's decent high density polymer (better than my CYMA M4 or G&G G36C), light, strong, quiet, consistent and accurate.

 

[Druid799]

3 hours ago, emilianoksa said:

Nice looking good price.

 

Claims to be made of aluminium.

 

Really? I thought Cyma used zamac pot metal for their guns. 

This one is made specifically for TG , they have a good few different ones made to there own spec , I have one of there Cyma AK’s (a team mate has one of there own spec M60’s) and it’s one of the best handling/feeling/performing AEGs I’ve ever had .

[Lozart]

4 hours ago, emilianoksa said:

Nice looking good price.

 

Claims to be made of aluminium.

 

Really? I thought Cyma used zamac pot metal for their guns. 

 

TWG are really good at listing all the materials used in a gun without mentioning which bits are made of what. It also lists "metal" as a construction material. Chances are the receiver is alloy same as the rest of them.

 

There was a series of articles in Ai mag about how these work out of the box and what you need to do to make them usable. The conclusion was that if you want a cheap gun to use as a project then this is for you but it's not as good as a CM16.

[emilianoksa]

I have recently sold one of my last two airguns and a couple of other bits and pieces, so I decided on impulse to get the G&G GC16 300 BOT.

 

Nothing exciting I know: it's just a bog standard CM16 combat machine with metal receiver and rails, but for just over £200 I thought it was worth it. I am pretty big on exteriors and prepared to upgrade the internals when funds allow - better motor, replacement for aluminium barrel etc. 

 

It's the ideal size and weight for CQB and over half a kilo lighter than my AKs. And it looks ...well, nice. Can't keep my hands off it.😁 There is quite a bit of wobble with the hicap mag, but I was expecting this, and will be getting some electrical tape to sort it. As for midcap mags, I would be grateful for any recommendations. Don't know why but G&G ones don't seem to be top choice for a lot of people. Metal or polymer, I don't care: can anyone recommend suitable mags that fit and feed well? Even if they wobble a little it's an easy fix. Or are the G&G ones OK?

 

I was very pleasantly surprised with the externals. It doesn't have that bomb proof authentic look of the AKs, but the metal and polymer both look to be of decent quality. It was also nice to get a cleaning rod and owner's manual for a change, although the space in the box for the 1000 complimentary G&G bbs was empty, and I must admit that irked me a bit, as they are supposed to come with the gun. I would also have liked to compare them to my Blasters.

 

What surprised me most was that although I had never been attracted to the M4 platform, I now realise why it's so popular.  It is a much more comfortable gun to handle than the AKs. I still love the AKs but have a feeling they will not be used as much as the little G&G for cqb.

 

I have come to realise that I will probably never own a top of the line gun. I'm the sort of airsofter who prefers to have a little collection of more modestly priced guns that I can pick and choose from. After all, at my age, even an Avalon, G&P, ICS Mars or Krytac isn't going to improve my effectiveness in a skirmish. I'm just too slow.  I'd be better spending the money on a decent optic, flashlight or tracer unit.

 

Thanks again for all your advice. Even if I have not taken it.😁

[Lozart]

A good player with a cheap gun is better than someone with all the gear and no idea!