Ares Amoeba vs HPA

[Skara]

Christmas is coming.

I've always wanted something different from the mass.

HPA guns look both fun to use and efficient.

 

I kinda want to HPA one of my guns, probably the AM009 since the honey badger basically has a new gearbox and being my "competitive" gun I don't really want to put too much stuff on it.

 

P* makes a Amoeba FCU for their Jack engine, and we all agree the Jack is a really good product..

What I'm interested in hearing from you is everything else, from tanks to regulators to lines..

I don't know anything about the HPA world, so here's my question:

What tank and regulator should I look for?

I usually dump around 2 to 4 thousand bbs per day depending on whether or not I bring my electric mag, I'd like to have something that lasts me all day (pressure output should be pretty low since I can't go over 328 fps)..

Also I'd like to have some general tips on how to be gud at HPA things.

I'm not giving a budget, I want to hear all the possible options, from the cheapest one to the Gucci loadouts..

[proffrink]

So basically you want us to do all your research for you? Yeh, that's going to be a no (from me at least).

 

HPA is very well documented across the internet at this point and there are written and video guides everywhere. Feel free to ask any kind of semi-specifics though about products.

[Skara]

No I'm not asking you to do the research for me.

I am asking a simple question: what tank and regulator should I look for?

The requirement is: I dump 2 to 4k shots per day at sub 328 fps.

From here: what tank size would be decent? Aluminum or carbon fiber? is there any actual difference between a slp and a higher pressure tank?

And on regulators? I guess I won't tune it to 120 psi or whatever the maximum output pressure is.

 

I've tried to look on Google, but most of the times I ended up in retailers websites

 

You mentioned the v12 to be good for my needs, but I don't really like the price difference and the amount of dedicated parts..

 

[Tommikka]

 

 

 

Check out this guide if you have not already done so:

 

https://airsoft-forums.uk/index.php?/topic/30669-the-hpa-frequently-asked-questions-faq-wip/#comment-288474

 

Have a look at air safety information from the UKPSF:

 

https://m.facebook.com/notes/united-kingdom-paintball-sport-federation/high-pressure-air-paintball-safety-information-guide-hpa-1/349610921821652/

 

Get familiarization from someone who knows about filling cylinders and about the specific fill station you will be using 

 

 

 

You will need an airsoft regulator (for the purposes of this post I’ll xall that the ‘inline regulator’ to step the pressure right down to a suitable working pressure for your gun.  This means that you don’t need to worry about any special regulator on the cylinder itself, keep it simple and don’t worry about SLP cylinder regulators - these are nieche market regulators and can be counter prodctive by being too slow at refreshing your inline regulator.

 

Again don’t worry about fibre wrapped cylinders etc.  For the bigger size and higher 4500psi pressure capability you pay more money at about £150 for the cylinder & it’s regulator in comparison to a standard 3000psi aluminum cylinder at about £40

The maximum 3000psi or 4500psi capacity of the cylinder has no bearing on how it operates your gun.

 

A typical fibre cylinder is lighter than the equivalent sized aluminum cylinder, but not by a lot to justify £100. You can get a noticeable weight difference if you get an ultralight cylinder but are then paying more likely £200 for the cylinder with regulator 

 

 

Fibres have a typical lifetime of 15 years before they should be scrapped and need hydro testing every 5 years at between £15 and say £40 not counting any postage, probably an average of £25.  So you are now looking at £200 over 15 years

Drop or bash a fibre cylinder and scuff it’s coating and I’ll reject it for filling 

 

The true benefits of carbon fibre in paintball is the right size and balance to fit the ergonomics of the individual with their gun using the cylinder as a stock

As soon as you take it off the guns and use a remote line you have just discarded those benefits 

 

 

Aluminiums have an unlimited lifetime as long as you hydrotest then every 5 or 10 years.  But at about £40 new you may as well replace it

(Note that most documentation and markings say 5 years, but in the UK the legal requirement for a true aluminum 3000psi cylinder is 10 years or a 13ci aluminum cylinder is exempt from hydro testing.  Not all sites / organizers will accept the 10 year or unlimited timeframe and will err on the side of safety and allow you only 5 years.  If it’s one of my events and I’m the air checker then I will allow 10 years / unlimited subject to my visual opinion on condition 

Scratch the paint on an aluminum cylinder and I won’t care

 

4500psi cylinders give you 50% more air as long as you have 4500psi fills available 

But if you have air fills on site then why bother carrying a big bulky bottle when a 13ci cylinder will be perfectly fine?

If you don’t have air fills available on site then I would be less inclined to want to carry a realistic style gun, with a hose and big air cylinder when you could just as well put a battery in it 

(Also if you don’t have air fills on site then buying 2 standard 3000psi cylinders gives you double the capacity just by swapping cylinders at £80 for the pair as opposed to only 50% more for £150)

 

Summary / your questions:

What size?

I would say a 13ci 3000psi is nice and convenient otherwise a standard 48ci 3000psi 

(I don’t know what shot capacity you would get)

 

Aluminium or carbon fiber?

Aluminium

 

Difference between SLP and HP cylinder?

No difference, only the fitted regulator output pressure and possible higher cost

 

Regulators?

Just use the standard cylinder regulator and then go for a suitable inline regulator to step down the pressure for your gun

 

Buying the cylinder

Shop around, it may cost you more for a cylinder from an airsoft retailer, go to a paintball retailer and you may pay less for the same item

Even better buy it in a real physical shop it you can to save on postage and to take a peek at the manufactured date to get the newest possible from the stock as they may be a few months or a year old on the shelf

[Skara]

Ok, thanks for the answer..

I am a scuba diver, so I always have a filled tank at home, I can use that one as a filling station.

I'll go for a hp aluminum tank then, 2x 48x3000 should be plenty (if a 13ci gives me around 1k shots, a 48ci should be enough for the day, 2x48ci should last me a really long time then) and shop at a local store for tanks + reg..

A 48ci alu tank here goes for 60€, a regulator + line (40ish inches) goes for 130..

So I'm left with getting the jack from amped + their custom igl for 400ish $ shipping included..

 

That should be around 600/650€ for the engine, 2 tanks and the other bits and bobs..

Is it a reasonable price?

[Tommikka]

I don’t know about the HPA mods and inline regulator 

 

€60 sounds a little bit pricey to me for a 48ci 3000psi, but that may be pricing in your area. (That’s around £50 here)

 

 

For the cylinder see if you can shop around through Paintball retailers in case you are paying extra for ‘airsoft’

But it might be the right price in your country as it’s not very different, and even here you could pay around £50 for one

 

 

I didn’t notice you were abroad when I made the note about 10 year testing or unlimited life on aluminium’s, so make sure you are legally compliant locally if you keep them that long 

 

 

[Tommikka]

Update - my Italian isn’t very good but with a quick search of a few sites €60 looks like a fair price for Italy 

[Skara]

50 quids are more or less 56€, so the price is about the same..

 

It's also sad to notice how a jack + igl on amped costs me 330€ shipped while the single engine at my local shop goes for 400€

Btw this shop's owner is the same guy who told me that HPA engines don't fit into Amoeba guns xD

 

I'll think about it and decide in the next days.

And save up some money in the meantime 

[Skara]

a little update.

 

today i've gone to the shop to buy a few things and asked the owner a few questions..

 

He said that with a 48ci tank he gets an average 3000 shots, so 2x48ci cylinders are more than enough..

He also said that p* stuff isn't as efficient as redline/wolverine HPA engines..

 

I'll have a look at the N7/Inferno

[Skara]

Today I played with another team (mine decided to not play due to the terrible weather), there were a few guys with HPA guns..

Ho-Lee-Sheet that range and accuracy.

Those guns had at least 10 metres more range than my gun while retaining the same fps, and they were playing with .28s (I used .20s), plus they were really accurate (mine is as well, but they had way tighter groupings at 40+m)..

 

They're all running N7s, I finally had the chance to see HPA guns live, and I really fell in love with the system..

 

Now, the shop gives me a complete kit for about 800€, but they need to find an Amoeba trigger board.

What if I buy the engine online (redline n7) along with a Ares V2 gearbox shell? One without the efcs so I can use the standard trigger board and keep my current box intact? Would it be cheaper?

 

Also, the shop sells the balystyk 800 something regulator for 130€ + line, some online reviews say it's a decent product.. Has any of you had any experience with those?

Also I found another shop that gives me a complete (engine, regulator+line, battery and 48ci cylinder) for 660€ but I don't know if he has any Amoeba trigger board (I heard the p* one is compatible with the N7)

[Nasro]

On 10/12/2017 at 0:01 PM, Skara said:

Today I played with another team (mine decided to not play due to the terrible weather), there were a few guys with HPA guns..

Ho-Lee-Sheet that range and accuracy.

Those guns had at least 10 metres more range than my gun while retaining the same fps, and they were playing with .28s (I used .20s), plus they were really accurate (mine is as well, but they had way tighter groupings at 40+m)..

 

They're all running N7s, I finally had the chance to see HPA guns live, and I really fell in love with the system..

 

Now, the shop gives me a complete kit for about 800€, but they need to find an Amoeba trigger board.

What if I buy the engine online (redline n7) along with a Ares V2 gearbox shell? One without the efcs so I can use the standard trigger board and keep my current box intact? Would it be cheaper?

 

Also, the shop sells the balystyk 800 something regulator for 130€ + line, some online reviews say it's a decent product.. Has any of you had any experience with those?

Also I found another shop that gives me a complete (engine, regulator+line, battery and 48ci cylinder) for 660€ but I don't know if he has any Amoeba trigger board (I heard the p* one is compatible with the N7)

 

Hey guys, 

 

I’ve recently bought an HPA Tippmann m4 carbine package including a 48/3000psi tank and line, red dot and 2 extra mags from a fella (YELLOWMASK) here and I must say I have made the best decision regarding buying Airsoft guns so far. 

 

I must say I had an amazing deal for the package and it also came the next day!!!

 

I instantly fell in love with it from the moment I shot several rounds in the night using my tracers!

 

the recoil is amazing on the stock bolt, and even better on the RED (recoil enhancement device), basically a heavy bolt for a harder kick! 

 

 

Accuracy?? = incredible !!

Realism in recoil?? = awesome !!

 

I'm using a 48/3000 psi Pronto tank with a standard tank regulator Straight into my M4. 

 

 

I have never exceeded 3000bbs in an event (The mall, reading) so I'm not sure but I’ve heard it can last 2 event days so...

 

Also, I have a 15L cylinder at home (which costs me £5 to fill) to refill my pronto tank. The 15L cylinder should refill my 48/3000 5-7 times apparently. Can somebody confirm? 

 

I don’t need any other regulators to attach to my tank regulator because I can adjust the velocity which increase/decrease FPS of my M4 from the M4 itself. 

 

 

 

Then at the right FPS (which is chronoed  and approved by an event staff) I use a Tippmann velocity pin to close my M4 and it will be zip tied by a staff member to indicate that the M4 is approved and locked and asked not to be broken until the end of the event just so it’s not adjusted again.

 

Maintenance? = very low on the M4, but tank every 3-4 months maybe?? 

Maybe someone can kindly confirm

 

Basically, it’s the least headache M4 regarding problems (maybe someone else has a different experience/opinion)

 

In my opinion, I recommend this to a first time HPA player like yourself. 

 

How much did it all cost me?

less than £350 inc next day delivery!

 

would I buy another HPA ??

Hell yeah!!

 

I’ve been really considering  KWA KRISS VECTOR HPA. Looks and sounds awesome being a GBB. 

What do you guys think?

 

 

 

[springs]

57 minutes ago, Nasro said:

I’ve been really considering  KWA KRISS VECTOR HPA. Looks and sounds awesome being a GBB. 

What do you guys think?

 

i would say look at the vector AEG as there are already people working on dropping a HPA setup into it.

 

the Vector GBB will be expensive to purchase as well you would either have to tap all the gas mags to build a high cap mag for it

[Nasro]

45 minutes ago, springs said:

 

i would say look at the vector AEG as there are already people working on dropping a HPA setup into it.

 

the Vector GBB will be expensive to purchase as well you would either have to tap all the gas mags to build a high cap mag for it

 

I'll take a look at the AEG conversion, but I really enjoy my guns as a blowback type, gives it more realism.

 

check this out

 

 

how awesome is that? 

 

You are right, GBB version is more expensive.

1K+ single round drum HPA mags are mostly handmade I believe, and that's why expensive too.

https://alyanairsoft.com/shop

 

I guess you'll find a good deal if you keep looking, people will always selling due to change of circumstances.

 

 

[Immortal]

That's it.... I've gotta sell everything my wife owns and get me a GBBR...

 

... the kick, oh the kick... it.... look's.... brilliant.

[Skara]

At first I thought you hijacked my thread and I was about to insult you, then I realized it was an advice

 

While I like the realism of the tippman, I can't get one here in Italy at a decent price, I have to import it and things often go wrong here when importing airsoft guns (they get "lost" at customs).. Yes, it's basically a third world country...

 

I'd like to stick with something my local techs have worked with in case there's an issue I can't solve, that means I have to stick with drop in kits..

[Nasro]

8 hours ago, Immortal said:

That's it.... I've gotta sell everything my wife owns and get me a GBBR...

 

... the kick, oh the kick... it.... look's.... brilliant.

 

LMAO there is nothing like a GBBR with a nice kick to it.

 

The Mrs does often complain why the rent is still due and, somehow, miraculously, there are more guns on the wall than family portraits recently 

 

 

[Nasro]

8 hours ago, Skara said:

At first I thought you hijacked my thread and I was about to insult you, then I realized it was an advice

 

While I like the realism of the tippman, I can't get one here in Italy at a decent price, I have to import it and things often go wrong here when importing airsoft guns (they get "lost" at customs).. Yes, it's basically a third world country...

 

I'd like to stick with something my local techs have worked with in case there's an issue I can't solve, that means I have to stick with drop in kits..

 

I understand. few sellers are refusing to send me guns from the US, I guess that's the same reason why!

 

Let us know how you get on, I would definitely like to see what you have bought! 

[Skara]

You're gonna have to wait until the end of the year..

I hope I can rack up the money fast enough to get it by Christmas, shouldn't take too much effort..

I've also noticed a local shop that makes custom parts (handguards, barrels, receivers) along with HPA kits. May buy a few pieces as well if I get the chance