Running a pistol

[GumRapid]

Hey,

So I am new, (Hi everybody) I've played on game at Alpha55 with an AEG but my background is in paintball, specifically speedball (small arena games where you run around and suppress like crazy, vastly different from airsoft). I am just starting to do some research and there seems to be a lot of negativity surrounding buying a pistol over an AEG. This might be a silly question, but why? Spec sheets read that pistols are getting the same 350 FPS that some AEGs get and while they haven't got massive mags, (although it seems you can get drum mags) that kind of appeals to me. I just wondered, what about them makes them uncompetitive when compared to an AEG? I notice that there is an FPS limit for my local site but no ROF limit, does this mean a full auto AEG just dominates because of the single fire vs auto?

 

From watching people play and watching some videos I quite like the idea of some kind of HPA pistol with an extended mag, something like a WE G35 (auto/semi) with HPA and an extended mag, or maybe even a Hi-Capa with a similar set up. Just something small and mobile. I must admit, I have only stumbled across a few set ups like this, so I get that it is a tad unorthodox and while that doesn't mean it is bad, I also don't want to waste my money or worse, upset the flow of a game with some unexpected play style or behaviour.

I found the AEG to be heavy and quite cumbersome to run around with and I never really engaged anyone over say 12-15m due to trying to stay behind over and push forward.

I mean I could be insane, I don't know a massive amount yet but I saw a lot of guys in full army gear who weren't too hard to work my way around as their effectiveness was vastly impaired by big chest carriers and mid-cap magazines, especially when compared to my rental gun and hi-cap.

 

Edit: I am also aware that my local play space allows for riot shields, so I could maybe rock one of them as well to allow myself and a team mate to move around easier, but obviously not while running an AEG.

[Guest PT247]

Pistols are not as accurate as a rifle generally (mainly due to lack of stock and having recoil. The barrel length makes no real odds to accuracy or range but not having a stable firing platform will lose your accuracy a lot and if running with restricted ammo compared to a chap with a PDW running an 850 round hi-cap, they would have a huge advantage.

 

Also pistols generally have a hop arm that comes from just one side so with prolonged use your hop will either fade entirely or start steering off to the side. On a NBB pistol (like the Mk23) you could run a TDC hop mod but you'd not be able to do that on a GBB.

 

Gas guns also suffer mega cool down on gas which will eventually see them freeze up solid under heavy use in winter, HPA would not be an issue though.

 

GBB pistols (and rifles) will suffer with far more mechanical wear than an AEG too causing them to break eventually.

 

I play woodland and love running with a pistol, but I'd always use it as a secondary rather than primary.

 

I don't know what paintball set up you had but can't believe an AEG with a hi-cap would be much heavier if at all than what you were previously using if you factor in your bottle of air and regulator etc.

 

If it really was too heavy for you then perhaps a few sessions in the gym would be beneficial or maybe a polymer AEG (eg: Scorpion Evo3)

[GumRapid]

Thank you So is there no way of removing the blow back to improve the accuracy? Obviously if it's not ideal then I shan't run it!

 

I tended to mount my bottle on the back of my belt and use a hose, kind of strange but it worked for me. I know it sounds silly, but I just guess I was expecting it to be a lot lighter. I think the fact that the weight is so spread out is what perhaps made it feel heavy when sprinting around. The paintball setup I used to run meant the weight was over my main hand which I suppose made it lighter.

How do small SMGs compare to AEGs?

[Guest PT247]

the blowback is the cocking mechanism, it'd not work without it.

 

AEGs, GBBRs etc are supposed to be realistic imitation firearms so not only mimic the look and operation but also the weight too.

 

SMGs are generally around the same weight as a pistol but have a folding stock which aids accuracy, if gas though then they will also be blowback so have a kick to them, they will also be mechanical so suffer the same wear as a pistol. You could go for an electric SMG (or pistol) and lose the recoil but they are generally lower fps and you'd not be able to convert them easily to HPA although someone did an MP9.

 

I'm not saying don't do it, am just saying it is not something I'd go for in a woodland environment that I play in.

 

I can only suggest you buy a G18c and a few 50 round gas mags for it and see how you get on

[ImTriggerHappy]

Try a scorpion evo

[GumRapid]

Thank you for the advice

 

So seeing as the guns are prone to breaking, is it not possible to get replacement parts for guns? I mean the guns are quiet expensive and a common design. A gun based off say an AK is an AK platform and thus parts should fit right? Same for pistols? Or do some manufacturers not make parts? Things like hop ups for example, can they not be replaced or worked on? I can seem to find a fair amount of AEG parts but not much else oddly, but maybe I'm not looking in the right places.

 

On a a technical note with the pistols, would it not be possible to just remove the connection between the slide and the mechanism inside so that the mech moves without the slide? I assume it pushes on a spring to force the slide forward after the action has taken place? so maybe put a lighter spring in as well to compensate for the lower weight? Maybe even cut out some of the slide to lighten it up? I don't know, just a though.

[Max2000]

No, because the slide actually cocks the trigger, also it is impossible (if you want it to stay in semi or full auto.)

Lets think of an airsoft gbb pistol, which has similar functions to the real pistol (I mean the trigger, slide, barrel and some other mechanisms have the similar idea)

So lets think and try to make a real gun shoot without a blow back. We cant, because first it need to reload a new live round in the chamber (airsoft gbb also need to do that)

Also the real gun need to re cock the trigger mechanism for it to shoot again (semi/full auto), which is also done because of the slide moving, so BIG NO.

You can look into something like a Tokyo Marui non blowback MK23 which is semiautomatic, easy to hpa (just change the valves on the mag) and is pretty accurate, but I still would not go for a pistol as a primary as it has worse accuracy and range than a standard aeg. I would recommend you to get a shorter, polymer m4, something like a g&g combat machine, and if you get really tiered to carry that, get a 1 point sling (it will help a lot).

[Max2000]

And there is plenty upgrade parts for aeg's out in the market, but if talking about gbb, there is some internal and external upgrades but they have to fit, as most of them are made to fit Tokyo Marui and their clones, (like WE)

[GumRapid]

Wonderful! Thank you

[Guest PT247]

Thank you for the advice

 

So seeing as the guns are prone to breaking, is it not possible to get replacement parts for guns? I mean the guns are quiet expensive and a common design. A gun based off say an AK is an AK platform and thus parts should fit right? Same for pistols? Or do some manufacturers not make parts? Things like hop ups for example, can they not be replaced or worked on? I can seem to find a fair amount of AEG parts but not much else oddly, but maybe I'm not looking in the right places.

 

On a a technical note with the pistols, would it not be possible to just remove the connection between the slide and the mechanism inside so that the mech moves without the slide? I assume it pushes on a spring to force the slide forward after the action has taken place? so maybe put a lighter spring in as well to compensate for the lower weight? Maybe even cut out some of the slide to lighten it up? I don't know, just a though.

 

 

yup, you can get replacement parts for most guns (AEG or GBB), mainly through the manufacturer directly although on the common guns there are some aftermarket stronger parts. You can upgrade the hop etc on pistols but even a steel pistol hop arm will deform to the side a bit (not as much as an OE arm) Pistols are and always will be a secondary weapon in real life, and that is all they are designed to be in airsoft. If you are playing CQB then go for it as you don't need the accuracy over range so a pistol would be fine.

It is your money at the end of the day so do with it what you want, it just seems that you have in your head that you want a pistol to do what it wasn't designed to do and you can't have your mind changed.

 

I, and a mate of mine have often talked about sorting a pistol with HPA and then running a drum mag from a backpack into the gun giving effectively 2000+ round magazine and incredible shot to shot consistency that HPA offers with a decent regulator, it is possible, there are videos on youtube about it and they look ace fun.... I'm not prepared to throw money into something that will disintegrate though, and I'd not recommend others do something I'd not do as that really wouldn't be good advice.

[Sacarathe]

I, and a mate of mine have often talked about sorting a pistol with HPA and then running a drum mag from a backpack into the gun giving effectively 2000+ round magazine and incredible shot to shot consistency that HPA offers with a decent regulator, it is possible, there are videos on youtube about it and they look ace fun.... I'm not prepared to throw money into something that will disintegrate though, and I'd not recommend others do something I'd not do as that really wouldn't be good advice.

 

Something like those wielded by deadshot in that recent movie based on a pair of WE Glocks would be nice.

[Guest PT247]

 

Something like those wielded by deadshot in that recent movie based on a pair of WE Glocks would be nice.

got a link?

[proffrink]

Reaper Airsoft Customs will do you that HPA-tapped drum magazine.

 

It'll wear out the gun really quickly though. Dunno about WE but on a Marui you'd want at least a reinforced frame and proper steel sears.

[Sacarathe]

got a link?

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Suicide_Squad#Wrist_Magnums

[Guest PT247]

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Suicide_Squad#Wrist_Magnums

haahahaha they look AWESOME!!!!

[Sacarathe]

And you could run them off AEP magazines (with HPA ofc).

[TheFull9]

'Speedsoft' has caught on a bit more in recent years, I don't see the appeal of trying specifically hard to 'win' at a sunday skirmish to be honest, but you can play however you like. It's not about winning the game though for a large portion of people, it still is a game but they're just there for the social and/or the fun of putting on a plate carrier, shooting, reloading, chucking pyro etc etc. Everyone pays their £30 for different reasons.

 

Unlike real life, a hit is a hit therefore armour has no effect. Also everything (basically) shoots the same calibre, same projectile, at roughly the same velocities; which again is rather different to warfare. The vast majority of guns on a site on a given game day will shoot with a small variance of the same distance and group sizes. A good pistol can out range some AEGs and absolutely trounce a really bad, cheap pistol. I've got a TM I had custom built from component parts which is nothing fancy on the outside (mostly stock on the inside too actually), but houses a fairly pricey tightbore and hop bucking, and if it weren't for the mag capacity I'd use it absolutely everywhere I went indoors or out. I remember being at a game in a large area of forest and a friend of mine had a really old WE P226 that would plop out BBs maybe 10-15m maximum, where my sidearm was pegging a narrow tree trunk every time at about 45m (maybe further, this was years ago). I tried playing with a TM 1911 inside a carbine kit a while ago at the Mall (close CQB), but I soon realised it was pointless having a stock and foregrip and just used the normal 1911 I had in my holster; allowed me to manoeuvre easier, point-shoot quicker and generally get around the other team very easily. Mag capacity wasn't a problem, having 4 mags loaded to about 25 shots each was plenty for the short games and I had more range and accuracy on tap than I even needed. Real pistols are rather different of course because 9mm kicks at least 20x harder than any average GBB I've ever shot, so a stock makes a real difference to recoil control for the inexperienced and mags are much smaller in general; but that's a whole different story.

 

There's a sort of sliding scale I suppose, realism at one end, competitive performance at the other. It's not quite as black and white as that, but it's an easy euphemism. Anyway, at the realism end you have stuff like gas-in-mag GBBRs, with internals as close to the real thing as you can get, generally heavier, slower ROF, small capacity, heavier magazines. At the other end you have... this I suppose: http://www.xcalibertactical.com/products/strafer/index.html

 

i.e. a full auto paintball marker with a 6mm barrel and a BB hopper.

 

What you'll realistically see on the field these days however, when it comes to people who care naught about realism and just want to go-fast, is a really short M4 (easy to obtain), with a plastic body (so it weighs f*ck all) converted to HPA with something like a PolarStar system. Once you've done that, you do essentially have a slightly more realistic looking paintball marker that feeds from magazines, except those magazines hold way more ammo than any mag-fed .68 cal gun could. You can get HPA conversions for all sorts of electric guns though, something like an MP5 would probably be do-able.

 

Then you get yourself a dye i4, wear your paintball clothes and it'll be like you never changed hobby.

 

 

I jest.

 

But yeah just google up (or search this forum) for HPA airsoft guns, PolarStar and Wolverine in particular. A gun in that arena will fit your needs and be far easier to actually get and run with than trying to convert a pistol for HPA with some sort of huge mag or tube feed.

 

Just be aware there's a bit of friction with some people. Some 'speedsofters' have garnered a reputation for cheating/non hit-taking and the concept of playing to win has caused this idea to spread. Sometimes it's deserved, often it isn't, but airsofters f*****g love a generalisation (see; everyone with multicam/Crye/Systema is deffo an elitist snob). So if you're going down this road I'd say it's advisable just to perhaps have a slightly elevated awareness of taking your hits and playing with honour and integrity.

[GumRapid]

So it's not the pistol form factor thats actually the issue but the materials inside?

So is it possible to get a rifle receiver and HPA that and get a super short barrel? From what I understand after reading and re-reading, the barrel isn't the primary variable in accuracy but it is your hop up? So barrel length is for compression (speed/FPS)? Essentially making some kind of pistol form factor but based on the rifle platform with hardier, better components?

sorry PT247 if you feel I am ignoring your advice, just trying to get a handle on the differences between the platforms. I feel like I might as well ask the stupid questions. I guess in my head, the pistol seems the best form factor and is far cheaper to run HPA than converting a rifle which I then have to buy event more parts to make smaller. I have found there seems to be quite a large 3D printing community surrounding pistols and pistol modification so that also caught my attention.

So as regards durability (of all platforms) what parts tend to break/wear down? I assume the hop ups, due to the function, take quite a hammering. Are they easily replaceable across guns or is it a little more tricky and what kind of life span are you looking to get out of these components.

 

It's funny you mention about grabbing my old paintball clothes, I really do want a coloured gun over the black, but I guess again, that is a paintballer mentality. So even if I do play fairly, what kind of reaction do smaller form factor, speed focused players get. I don't want to step on anyones toes and upset their hobby and I want to be a useful team mate to people, pushing up to help them out is kind of how I see my role. I don't mind being laid in mud or what have you so I figure player to my strengths.

[Esoterick]

Most people won't care what kit you use, or at least if they do they don't say anything about it outside of the internet.

[Guest PT247]

A mate of mine wears his paintball gear, he also uses a P90 as his gun which is a bullpup so compact and is polymer so light too.

You could look at the short M4's too, this is one I am currently selling:

 

 

Unless there is a special reason for you wanting to go HPA I'd wait a while before spending a wedge of cash on something you may find isn't needed :-) As you can see from my photo the Krytac puts out close on most outdoor sites limit on fps and is as accurate as a longer gun.

[Sacarathe]

If you want to "speedsoft" I would recommend not wearing much padding. I've played CQB in a tshirt on one occasion and it was not "too" bad. People will be less quick to decry you if they can't say "but he can't feel his hits and he's too 'adrenal' to hear them, if you're not armoured. But really most airsofters take a "wear whatever you want" mentality.

 

My problem with the speedsofters I've encountered was that their tunnel vision was so severe that they didn't take hits to their [armoured] chests and you had to shoot for thighs/head to get hits called.

[TheFull9]

So it's not the pistol form factor thats actually the issue but the materials inside?

 

So is it possible to get a rifle receiver and HPA that and get a super short barrel? From what I understand after reading and re-reading, the barrel isn't the primary variable in accuracy but it is your hop up? So barrel length is for compression (speed/FPS)? Essentially making some kind of pistol form factor but based on the rifle platform with hardier, better components?

 

sorry PT247 if you feel I am ignoring your advice, just trying to get a handle on the differences between the platforms. I feel like I might as well ask the stupid questions. I guess in my head, the pistol seems the best form factor and is far cheaper to run HPA than converting a rifle which I then have to buy event more parts to make smaller. I have found there seems to be quite a large 3D printing community surrounding pistols and pistol modification so that also caught my attention.

 

So as regards durability (of all platforms) what parts tend to break/wear down? I assume the hop ups, due to the function, take quite a hammering. Are they easily replaceable across guns or is it a little more tricky and what kind of life span are you looking to get out of these components.

 

It's funny you mention about grabbing my old paintball clothes, I really do want a coloured gun over the black, but I guess again, that is a paintballer mentality. So even if I do play fairly, what kind of reaction do smaller form factor, speed focused players get. I don't want to step on anyones toes and upset their hobby and I want to be a useful team mate to people, pushing up to help them out is kind of how I see my role. I don't mind being laid in mud or what have you so I figure player to my strengths.

 

No the form factor is the issue with a gas pistol pistol. Being so small, you can't fit much inside. Maybe one day someone will invent something pistol shaped that literally is just a garden hose with an air feed and a line that somehow constantly feeds BBs, but right now there's no such thing available to buy. If they do invent such a thing and someone starts selling it, I feel there's a reasonable chance it'll get blanket banned at skirmishes and relegated to some sort of speedball style competitive leagues... maybe. Some places already ban, or at least heavily restrict, HPA adapted rifles because of things that have happened in recent years related to them, often on account of the fact they can be set to super high FPS and ROF comparatively easily, vs the average AEG anyway. I don't agree with blanket bans like that, but as per usual a small portion of users have created a bad name (amongst some) for the larger majority.

 

I think overall you need to look up the actual inner workings of an AEG because you're sort of asking the wrong questions at this point. But yes, you can put a HPA system inside a rifle or SMG, as I already said google PolarStar and Wolverine. You can then use whatever length barrel you like, especially with an M4 variant that has endless aftermarket parts available. Or start from a short gun such as PT247's to begin with. But I'd also agree with PT in that AEGs are already super handy and portable as they are, that's the whole idea of them vs the old air-line guns that used to be common in airsoft in the 80s. If you want to move fast, an air tank and line don't actually help with that, they're not necessarily a huge hindrance but they're not a help either. Small, lightweight electric guns already exist that don't need to be hooked up to anything, so as mentioned above unless you buy a HPA gun off the bat (which is of course possible) you'd be best off trying electric before investing the big money in to something like polarstar.

 

Don't even worry about durability right now in honesty, long as you buy a decent rifle they'll go for many tens of thousands of shots before things break. There are TM AEGs out there which are 15 years old with 150,000 BBs through them and still trucking on. If you do get something like a PolarStar system there is, if I recall correctly, literally one moving part that'll last you years of usage. Maintenance is a real non-issue.

 

You shouldn't get any reaction if you play like a decent human being end of the day, simple. If you're playing fairly and people are still dicks.. well that happens anyway now and again, whether you're a SEAL re-enactor or running a M60 in bring pink with glitter on. Not worth spending any time thinking about.

 

It's real simple end of the day, this is what not to do:

https://www.youtube.com/user/TheWarrockrocks97/videos

[GumRapid]

That is a very cool looking rifle! So talking about barrel length, would that rifle with a tiny barrel still be accurate at a good range or was I incorrect and accuracy is massively impacted by barrel length?

 

Thank you guys

[Guest PT247]

yup, I have another Krytac (an SPR) which has a 420mm barrel and when running the same fps they shoot mostly identical to each other.

[AshOnSnow]

Most people won't care what kit you use, or at least if they do they don't say anything about it outside of the internet.

 

On the internet, no matter what you say or do, you can be sure that someone will tell you you're stupid, and they will always have a better idea

 

Go with kit that makes you happy, end of. Airsoft is a game after all.