Motor Change

[callumbagshaw]

Hi all,

Yet another noob question... I DID GOOGLE FIRST THOUGH!

 

While changing the (imo TERRIBLE) pistol grip on my Krytac CRB, I discovered that my motor is the 20k version. I understand the 30k version is better, but could someone explain why, and how much better it is? Is it worth me getting the 30k motor?

 

I can only find retailers selling these in the US too, so if anyone knows a UK merchant that would be appreciated.

Thanks!

[Hef Legend]

I managed to get a 30k version in the UK. The 30k has more RPM and results in a quicker ROF and trigger response.

[Governor]

IIRC, US models have the 30K motor to account for the stronger spring. If you're thinking of getting a better motor (be it torque or speed) it might be worth looking at the common aftermarket options considering the awkwardness of getting the 30K in the UK.

 

People suggest the 20K should pull only up to an M120 spring, whilst the 30K has been tested to pull an M150 @ 20rps. Using a 30K with a lower rated spring (as we would use) would give a greater RoF and increased trigger response compared to the 20K.

 

Direct difference is one is rated at 30,000 RPM whilst the other 20,000 RPM.

[callumbagshaw]

I see, thanks!

So with the current spring (which I assume is M120), if I installed a 30k motor, that would generate unnecessary strain?

What I'm saying is, if I put the 30k motor in, should I also look at getting a M150 spring?

 

Bear in mind too, that currently it's shooting around 280FPS... However, muzzle velocity isn't really priority as it's shooting very far with good accuracy.

Somebody told me that Krytacs are so good out of the box that you can actually do more damage than good by "upgrading" any of the internals, so i am a bit weary about it...

[Samurai]

I read it here that the stronger motor even with 7.4V lipo can cause double shots on single.

[ak2m4]

If you're only shooting at 280fps then you've either got a M80 / M90 or bad compression going on inside the gearbox. I'm not sure what Tridents ship stock but I would have thought close to 350fps.

 

M150 = 450FPS so unless you're going for a DMR stick with M100 spring

 

If you opt for a 30K motor you will just increase ROF/trigger response, if you're not too bothered about that then stick with what you've got. As always any increase in motor, spring or battery voltage causes more strain etc. Parts wear out / explode quicker.

[Guest PT247]

wow, only 280 on 0.2g BBs??? Who did the downgrade coz that is shockingly low?
Change the spring first, get it to closer your sites limit. Krytac themselves have said the 30k motor is not suitable for our site fps limits but I think that is due to Shield telling them we are sub 300. My PDW works fine with an 11.1v LiPo and the 30k motor but others have said they have had issues. Are you running 11.1v or 7.4v LiPos? If 7.4v then I'd go to an 11.1v as that is a far cheaper way to up the snappiness, if already running 11.1v and still want sharper trigger response then go for it but be forewarned that you possibly may have feed issues.

 

The motors are easy to get hold of, you just need to know where to look:

 

http://www.shieldpsd.com/shop-2/30k-high-torque-long-motor

 

They are not cheap, but I love how my PDW shoots now paired with an 11.1v LiPo and the 30k motor (bang on 350fps)

[ak2m4]

Krytac themselves have said the 30k motor is not suitable for our site fps limits

 

What do you mean here PT? The motor doesn't have anything to do with the FPS,

 

That's one hell of a price for a motor!

[Guest PT247]

the 30k motor compresses our soft springs too easily and sometimes over runs causing feed issues. If running a stronger spring (like in the USA) the motor has to work harder to compress the spring which stops it running on. You are right in saying the motor doesn't effect the fps but the strength of the spring (which is directly related to fps) does effect how the motor works. Like I said though, my PDW is absolutely fine with 11.1v and the 30k motor.

[callumbagshaw]

wow, only 280 on 0.2g BBs??? Who did the downgrade coz that is shockingly low?

Change the spring first, get it to closer your sites limit. Krytac themselves have said the 30k motor is not suitable for our site fps limits but I think that is due to Shield telling them we are sub 300. My PDW works fine with an 11.1v LiPo and the 30k motor but others have said they have had issues. Are you running 11.1v or 7.4v LiPos? If 7.4v then I'd go to an 11.1v as that is a far cheaper way to up the snappiness, if already running 11.1v and still want sharper trigger response then go for it but be forewarned that you possibly may have feed issues.

 

The motors are easy to get hold of, you just need to know where to look:

 

http://www.shieldpsd.com/shop-2/30k-high-torque-long-motor

 

They are not cheap, but I love how my PDW shoots now paired with an 11.1v LiPo and the 30k motor (bang on 350fps)

 

I haven't done any sort of downgrade... Like that out of the box.

That said, it was through a questionable Chrono.

It shoots a billion times better than my G&G ever did so i'm not expressing any concern about the low FPS.

Also, I was shooting .25's @ 280FPS, not .2's - however, the Chrono "was set for .25's"... Like i said though, not the best chrono.

 

Oh, and I'm using an 11.1v lipo with deans connection, trigger response and ROF are actually both fantsatic, so I think that answers my question... No need for the 30k motor - especially at that price!

[ak2m4]

I think you've made the wise decision. Upgrading gearboxes is no easy task - nothing worse than breaking your only AEG cos you couldn't resist the urge to tinker :-)

 

If you do get the urge then grab yourself a bunch of parts and build yourself a custom backup AEG.

[Sitting Duck]

To be truely honest the 30k motor is not the be all & end all

 

if you want a 30k Krytac I have a used one if you like but imho a SHS Torque will match if not kick its ar$e to bits

The SHS Torque is one of best £ for £ motors you can get hold easily without breaking the bank

 

On a recent couple of builds I was finding these results upon final testing.....

 

Yes there are faster crazy motors out there that I can pull 33rps on 7.4v but they get warm even quite hot when caned a bit and current draw is quite a lot

The SHS Torque will rip say 27rps instead of 33rps on 12:1 gearing on 7.4v but runs cooler and draws 16/17amp instead of 24/26amps !!!

Wow - that is some draw which means your batteries are draining quicker for not a massive increase in rof

 

Not going into too much but still after short stroking, but using spacers to claw back lost fps using say a m110, you still get overspin above 30rps

and on 11.1v even with a bit of extra work she often will still double fire on fresh 11.1v even with SS & spacers

so for crazy speeds of 35+ m120/130 is going to be needed which also will reduce the initial rps anyway - so hence keeping her at up to 30rps is wise

there is little gained in going nutz above this imho - there is f*ck all to be gained - bollox to response n $hit

yes at 45rps but double firing and probably say 40rps max with m130 to get her to behave

but still little compared to gun shooting say 27rps over a stock 15rps

but 40rps n crap is not that FMF (F*ck Me Factor) over 27rps imho

 

Suffice to say after breaking stuff tooooooo many times I have come to conclusion to stay put into high 20's maybe nudge 30's but no more

Or 20's to mid 20's if doing a modest build without having to grind out for thick industrial wiring n crap struggling to squeeze it in pistol grip etc.....

 

The Torquey motors - and the SHS Torque is not a crazy frankentorque but a decent motor with a noticeable improvement over any stock motor

not too silly increase like 50% over ferrite but about 25% but also runs cooler and much less draw than the ultra whippy 14tpa speedy neo motors

 

The Krytac motors look like ferrite but are neodym even though they are black magnets, a vid is on youtube from ASTKillo or something about this

yes they look ferrite but in fact are a kind of neodym motor but not the usual insanely stronger chrome/silver type neodym magnets we often see

So yes the 30k is neodym but not that stronger neodym/earth magnets like SHS & others use.....

 

Hence the conclusion the 30k is not the be all and end all - is good but atm mine is replaced with a BD160 which clearly showed more response/rps

not sure if I'll replace it with 30k or a shs torque or leave it as is with a BD160 in there

I'm trying to resist the urge to rip her open inside - if it ain't broke... has never been yelling at me more so than with the krytac

 

But my honest opinion is that the 30k motor is not the holy grail or be all & end all that 20k owners may think imho

 

Maybe I should do more tests to determine the final results on 30k vs SHS Torque vs BD160 or crazy mofo's

but I didn't feel the FMF about the 30k motor tbh on 7.4v's compared to other stuff/motors

 

Other Krytac speed freak owners remember that the piston is likely to shred some of its plastic teeth if you go too crazy

which is a good design to prevent any PE smashing f*ck out of the rest of the box....

but please understand the risks of pushing ANY gun with mild UK springs in

so if you don't want to break your nice gun - even a Krytac resist the urge to take the pi$$ too much

 

they might be built very well but with regards to Pre Engagement as a very experienced tech mofo once said:

 

 

but a few like Krytac are working on stuff so with the mk2's it could be more:

 

[ImTriggerHappy]

 

I haven't done any sort of downgrade... Like that out of the box.

That said, it was through a questionable Chrono.

It shoots a billion times better than my G&G ever did so i'm not expressing any concern about the low FPS.

Also, I was shooting .25's @ 280FPS, not .2's - however, the Chrono "was set for .25's"... Like i said though, not the best chrono.

 

Oh, and I'm using an 11.1v lipo with deans connection, trigger response and ROF are actually both fantsatic, so I think that answers my question... No need for the 30k motor - especially at that price!

280fps with 0.25g bb's is about 315fps with 0.2g bb's which is pretty much what most Krytac guns are averaging out the box.

[Guest PT247]

 

I haven't done any sort of downgrade... Like that out of the box.

That said, it was through a questionable Chrono.

It shoots a billion times better than my G&G ever did so i'm not expressing any concern about the low FPS.

Also, I was shooting .25's @ 280FPS, not .2's - however, the Chrono "was set for .25's"... Like i said though, not the best chrono.

 

Oh, and I'm using an 11.1v lipo with deans connection, trigger response and ROF are actually both fantsatic, so I think that answers my question... No need for the 30k motor - especially at that price!

 

The chrono could have been set for cannon balls and your gun shooting through it would still register at 280fps if using 0.25g BBs, the chrono will only use the info on weight to calculate the joules based on the fps it senses and your inputted weight of BB.

[Allizard]

Here is a short video to show you the result of a 30K motor vs. 20k motor with M100 spring and 11.1v Lipo.

 

https://youtu.be/akiWP2hHCjQ

 

30k motor, m100 spring, 11.1v 1200 mAh 20c Lipo - Over spin.

30k motor, m100 spring, 7.4v 1000 mAh 15c Lipo - No Over spin.

20k motor, m100 spring, 11.1v 1200 mAh 20c Lipo - Over spin on Full charged battery. the over spin will stop after about 100-150 rounds. Then it's back to single shot on semi.

20k motor, m100 spring, 11.1v 1200 mAh 20c Lipo - No Over spin with OLD battery.

20k motor, m100 spring, 7.4v 1000 mAh 15c Lipo - No Over spin.

So our initial concern when building UK spec is the over spin issue with m100 spring. As we were advised to build lower FPS for the UK. (Irregardless if there is an actual legal concern. That's another topic. ) However, I will revisit the possibility to adjust the UK spec with our UK distributor.

And for those of you wondering why our Neo magnet isn't silver. Read this article http://www.polymagnet.com/blog/nib

In short, we are using a Bonded NdFeB vs. normal Sintered NdFeB which require coating with Nickel (why it's silver color). One thing the article didn't mention is the bonded Neo are less likely to crack compared to normal nickel coated Neo especially operating in high heat. In our opinion which is a more durable neo magnet.

[ImTriggerHappy]

Here is a short video to show you the result of a 30K motor vs. 20k motor with M100 spring and 11.1v Lipo.

 

 

I'll come back to discuss this further if you guys have any other questions.

Thats great but most people use the 7.4v lipo in the UK. I think the point you are missing is people dont like feeling that they are getting second best.

[Guest PT247]

my comments re this are on the youtube vid.

[Guest PT247]

state the fps of the gearbox and then the post is valid.

[Sitting Duck]

Agreed hence why 7.4v is often plenty for UK stuff

25rps is about where UK guns start to overspin and maybe double fire

 

Without more work n stuff 25rps on 7.4v say 25c is about the max you are gonna get

If you only get 20rps don't beat yourself up

Shorter guns or barrels will most likely use a slightly higher spring so you may get 25-30rps on a mp5k type gun

 

But yup there is always an optimal speed of 20's is plenty is what most of us roll with

 

Yes motors can make a difference

Some are just same speed as stock ferrite but can pull crazy stuff if they are mega torquey motors

Others can run nearly 50% faster than stock but on high springs or higher speed gears they draw lots of amps and run warm/hot when caned

 

Find a middle road motor like SHS torque is my conclusion and have a happy gun on 7.4v with faster gears if you like

 

Save money/space as 7.4v can be plenty in the twenties

 

I have said this crap over n over n over like a scratched record.

If people are using 11.1v with no overspin then all I can say is DMR or a higher spring with a leak or very short barrel with slight leak to stay below 350fps

Maybe flat hop or losing some fps in flat or R hop but still needing m120-130 for a decent 11.1v on decent build not to run on much

 

Well that is my findings for 11.1v lipo's unless you use crappy motors

AB does help but running tooo fast it won't stop PE

 

ONLY ONE WAY TO SORT IT....

 

FIGHT !!!!

 

Yup we could of well should of got 30k as standard

If bell-end user wants to go stupid well that is up to them

But - oh never mind

330fps n 30k motor please if you can Mr Krytac

Plus a sticker to tell thick Limey's not to go too nutz

[Guest PT247]

they do put a sticker on.... sayin don't use 11.1v..... is utterly covering their bums as in my instance the PDW works fine with 30k and 11.1v with a spring providing 350fps. They obviously are ensuring that 300fps guns run fine so am sure that is their reasoning behind giving us crap low power motors in the UK rather than saving money.

[Sitting Duck]

Your pdw might be using a m110 ish spring if barrel is short and you must be close or starting to get some overspin but a bit is nothing to be concerned about

 

You have gotta be 30 or less or you gotta be getting overspin like piston half drawn back is all I can say

 

Nothing bad at all but people should test on 7.4v

Then with a similar lipo but 11.1v expect to see 50% more rof

So if hitting 20+ on 7.4v they should be very careful if trying a same burst 11.1v lipo

 

Said at beginning the 30k motor is a bit over rated and think if I had 20k I'd consider buying a SHS torque instead of buying a 30k Krytac one

 

Still would of been nice to get 330fps n 30k motor in all UK krytacs

[Allizard]

I'm for using 30k for UK spec, less work for us to keep two type of SKU. ;-)

[Guest PT247]

I get that you know stuff and understand stuff and have tried stuff. Am not disputing that one bit but..... My gun runs great, Science may say it is a freak.... people may say it wont work.... but.... BUT.... it does. the only time any of my Krytacs failed was with a 20k motor and an M150 spring on a 11.1v LiPo. It runs fine at 350 fps with an 11.1v LiPo and a 30k motor.... what is hard to comprehend?

[Guest PT247]

I only use semi generally and that is the main test as it'll lock up if out of cycle.... not had that issue once!

[Allizard]

I get that you know stuff and understand stuff and have tried stuff. Am not disputing that one bit but..... My gun runs great, Science may say it is a freak.... people may say it wont work.... but.... BUT.... it does. the only time any of my Krytacs failed was with a 20k motor and an M150 spring on a 11.1v LiPo. It runs fine at 350 fps with an 11.1v LiPo and a 30k motor.... what is hard to comprehend?

 

yea... I wouldn't use 20k motor with a 150 spring.