Thinking of buying a TM L96

[ItsAJ]

So thought I might get the TM L96 AWS, always thought it was a lovely looking gun but I know the VSR-10 GSpec is more reliable, but in what way? Is the L96 problem only the feeding issue with the magazine as I'm sure a bit of tape could fix that to keep it more snug and tight, or is there other problems it has the VSR-10 doesn't have? I presume both shoot exactly the same out of the box, albeit with a bit of tape?

Let me know what you guys think and any information you have, the likely hood is I won't upgrade these, but I won't rule it out either in the long run.

Cheers!

[proffrink]

Bad feed ramp. Buy a Maruzen Type96 APS-2 clone like the WELL ones. You can do the 'fake magazine' mod if it bothers you, but ultimately the AWS (the TM and its clones with the realistic magazine location) is a bit naff.

 

Reasons for the VSR being basically the most functional BASR out there are well documented on these forums and others, but in essence it boils down to it having a well refined selection of upgrades and a smaller stock that's very manoeuvrable.

[sp00n]

there is 2 problems with my TM L96 AWS

 

first there is no upgrade for the hop unit at all, so now fully upgraded i only have 2 clicks left in hop adjustment

 

second there is no mancraft kit for it

 

in my view, like proffrink above me, i would advise going with the well MB01 series, its a lot cheaper, and it has lots and lots of upgrades

 

please not the well MB44xx series is TM L96 AWS clones

 

be sure to check out http://www.airsoftsniperparts.com/identifyyourrifle.htm to check gun/part compatibility etc

[jcheeseright]

So you've got 2 clicks left in your hop adjustment and you're shooting level? you have more hop adjustment available to you than you need and that's a bad thing?!

 

I don't understand.

[ItsAJ]

I just looked up the Well and the Maurzen, and I just realised i forgot to say I live in Northern Ireland so the 1 Joule limit applies that was the main reason for looking at the TM. Between the Well MB01 and the Maurzen APS2 Type 96 what is better? If I got either what parts would need to replace to shoot as accurate as the TM VSR-10?

[jcheeseright]

with a 1J limit you're really best off just buying a stock marui and fiddling with the hop/barrel to make it consistent.

[proffrink]

Exactly what jcheese says: Go Marui - they're excellent for that 1J limit, but the point still stands with regards to the VSR vs L96 AWS vs APS-2 Type96 in that you could still buy a Marui VSR. They're extremely good out of the box so if you do want functionality over form then the TM VSR is still the way to go.

[ItsAJ]

with a 1J limit you're really best off just buying a stock marui and fiddling with the hop/barrel to make it consistent.

 

 

Exactly what jcheese says: Go Marui - they're excellent for that 1J limit, but the point still stands with regards to the VSR vs L96 AWS vs APS-2 Type96 in that you could still buy a Marui VSR. They're extremely good out of the box so if you do want functionality over form then the TM VSR is still the way to go.

 

I have the recoil shock Scar H and I love it, though the VSR-10 looks so boring which is what put me off, I have long arms and always found small stocks annoying, I find it easier to tuck in and aim right without feeling cramped which were two reasons for the L96. I would either have to get a VSR and learn to love it, or get a good L96 that shoots as good so I don't feel done out in accuracy or range.

I might be moving to mainland UK for Uni so whatever I get might get upgraded if that happens, what is the better VSR-10 TM do forgetting about the rails etc as I can add them on later, but barrel length wise for upgrading fps and accuracy if I do move?

To get the same performance from the Well MB-01 or Maruzen APS2 Type96 as the VSR-10 what would need to be done to it?

[proffrink]

The VSR is the most upgradable platform for a BSAR. The Type96 APS-2 clones can be heavily upgraded too, however.

 

Really with the sub-1J law you're limited to working on the hop. You may want to buy an aftermarket hop unit, a barrel with a nicer finish and a decent bucking (or maybe flat hop or R-hop). Seeing as those are things you'd do on a 500ft/s build anyway, you won't be losing out too much and have to swap things if/when you move.

[ItsAJ]

The VSR is the most upgradable platform for a BSAR. The Type96 APS-2 clones can be heavily upgraded too, however.

 

Really with the sub-1J law you're limited to working on the hop. You may want to buy an aftermarket hop unit, a barrel with a nicer finish and a decent bucking (or maybe flat hop or R-hop). Seeing as those are things you'd do on a 500ft/s build anyway, you won't be losing out too much and have to swap things if/when you move.

Allight, if I get sense knocked into me and decide for the VSR-10, what one is best to go with if I move to England to boost the fps as I heard the GSpec's shorter barrel can be an issue with that in mind?

[proffrink]

If you're going to upgrade everything then the JG BAR is a good clone. If you want it more skirmishable at 1J first then the TM VSR will be best - you'll pay a slight premium but it'll perform better.

 

The GSpec is an easier platform to work with. Barrel length never matters in airsoft, so you'll be fine.

[sp00n]

So you've got 2 clicks left in your hop adjustment and you're shooting level? you have more hop adjustment available to you than you need and that's a bad thing?!

 

I don't understand.

 

It was a comparison to my vsr, which has the AA hop unit, and is set mid way atm.

 

that's with 0.43's, i want to switch to 0.45's soon, so more would be better

 

but in the OP's case its irrelevant for him

[ItsAJ]

 

It was a comparison to my vsr, which has the AA hop unit, and is set mid way atm.

 

that's with 0.43's, i want to switch to 0.45's soon, so more would be better

 

but in the OP's case its irrelevant for him

You have the VSR too? Dude you have the two rifles I was torn between haha, what one do you prefare, why and what type of VSR you got?

[sp00n]

You have the VSR too? Dude you have the two rifles I was torn between haha, what one do you prefare, why and what type of VSR you got?

It's the I have the TM vsr g-spec I have.

 

I prefare the vsr to be honest, as there is wayy more upgrade parts available, it's lighter, mags are cheaper and it's cheaper to buy new.

 

But then again my vsr is mancrafted (it's HPA, not Spring powered) so it has a rediculusly light bolt pull, mancraft do not do a kit for the TM l96 aws

[Snakeeyes75]

VSR all the way! I've upgraded 2 L96 now and they're still horrible!

 

Despite what anyone says, try to get the TM VSR if possible, I've been hearing horror stories about nozzle alignment on the clones, EVEN the Bar 10.

 

The TM will cost you more but stuff just works! all the upgrade parts are designed for the TM VSR, I've now fitted Airsoft pro, laylax, edgi and mancraft upgrades and although some require a tiny bit of modding, nothing has been too brutal! The finished result is a fairly lightweight gun that can do what you want it too!

 

Case in point, My friend has a Maruzen L96 running 500fps with an upgraded spring/guide/nozzle/hop arm and every game there seems to be an issue!

[proffrink]

You have the VSR too? Dude you have the two rifles I was torn between haha, what one do you prefare, why and what type of VSR you got?

I've too have 'fully' upgraded a VSR and an APS-2 Type96 clone and would pick the VSR purely for functionality reasons.

 

Despite what anyone says, try to get the TM VSR if possible, I've been hearing horror stories about nozzle alignment on the clones, EVEN the Bar 10.

 

The TM will cost you more but stuff just works! all the upgrade parts are designed for the TM VSR, I've now fitted Airsoft pro, laylax, edgi and mancraft upgrades and although some require a tiny bit of modding, nothing has been too brutal! The finished result is a fairly lightweight gun that can do what you want it too!

 

Case in point, My friend has a Maruzen L96 running 500fps with an upgraded spring/guide/nozzle/hop arm and every game there seems to be an issue!

This is a good point. The TM VSR uses the guide rings in the receiver slightly differently, and this can be a problem on the BAR, for example. It is fixable though and sometimes the cost can justify still going for a clone, but as OP wants to use it in Ireland before moving the TM VSR is no question the vest option for its out of the box performance anyway.

[ItsAJ]

I definitely wouldn't get a clone of it anyway, I just love TM. Everything works in sync perfectly in their guns! Have to say you guys have really put me off spending my money on a L96 that looks pretty and nothing more! Just stuck between the GSpec and the Pro Sniper version, that longer inner barrel could be handy for upgrading at a later stage to a higher fps, from a what I read anyway. Do you all have the GSpec?

[sp00n]

i have a PDI 6.05 430mm barrel in my g-spec, but i am using a spartan light weight 335mm silencer, with a LRB mod. you can fit a 430mm barrel in a g-spec, but the silencer then just becomes decoration/barrel extension then.

[Snakeeyes75]

I definitely wouldn't get a clone of it anyway, I just love TM. Everything works in sync perfectly in their guns! Have to say you guys have really put me off spending my money on a L96 that looks pretty and nothing more! Just stuck between the GSpec and the Pro Sniper version, that longer inner barrel could be handy for upgrading at a later stage to a higher fps, from a what I read anyway. Do you all have the GSpec?

 

I have both, right here's my opinion lol

 

GSPEC: Superb gun, the 330mm barrel it comes with is top notch! Silencer works and the bolt handle is much better than the VSR pro. Even barrel so spacing is easy.

Pro: Slightly lighter and shorter than the GSPEC... That's it!

 

I first off bought the GSPEC and had it upgraded by ASPUK, for 6 months it was awesome! I could hit targets at 90 meters and it was fun! However, I learned about the dreaded joule creep and that's when I realized that the GSPEC takes full advantage of JC to give it "Hidden power", I swapped the internals out a few times and currently I'm running a 430mm Laylax barrel (Drilled out the end cap so it can intrude into the silencer) plus It's running the Mancraft SDIK kit with an external HPA source. With a .45 I can hit the 75 meter target nicely and that's with zero creep.

 

Recently I spent out and bought the edgi kit (The one Novritch uses) and I decided to go VSR pro route. Out of the box it doesn't come with a rail so that cost me another £15. I didn't have to alter anything to fit the kit, the barrel went in nicely and the only front end thing I changed was the hop arm to a type B. (I did R hop it too but that's another story).

 

TBH, I'd get a Gspec every time! It's a nice gun, you can easily fit a longer barrel if need be.

[proffrink]

I definitely wouldn't get a clone of it anyway, I just love TM. Everything works in sync perfectly in their guns! Have to say you guys have really put me off spending my money on a L96 that looks pretty and nothing more! Just stuck between the GSpec and the Pro Sniper version, that longer inner barrel could be handy for upgrading at a later stage to a higher fps, from a what I read anyway. Do you all have the GSpec?

I think I covered this earlier, but a barrels length means nothing in airsoft. Sure, you may get a marginally higher muzzle energy but you can just upgrade the spring to mitigate that. There's also the issue of a longer barrel costing more and having to buy a rail (Pro Sniper versions don't come with one, like Snakeeyes said).

 

If you find the barrel too short then you can always buy a much nicer, longer one off PDI, ORGA, EdGI, AA, etc. in the future anyway, but some people just attach a suppressor permanently and run the inner-barrel through it (giving an overall inner-barrel length of up to about 450mm). Again - and I can't stress this enough - barrel length is not very important in airsoft.

 

Also, look into the Mancraft SDiK kit. Discussed in other threads (use the search) but a reliable and surprisingly affordable upgrade route for the VSR when you offset its cost against what you'd usually have to buy in a springer setup but don't.

 

One final thing: Most of the TM VSRs come with a pinned cylinder head that's a bit of a pain to remove for later spring changes and upgrades. You'd likely be looking to swap the cylinder later on if you go for the conventional springer route, but if you do like the look of the SDiK then that pin can cause issues as switching the cylinder to just a normal threaded one is mostly a waste of money with the SDiK. I say this because a lot of the clones - like the JG BAR - come with a threaded cylinder. If you come to the conclusion that an SDiK might be a route you want to try then reconsider buying a clone.

[ItsAJ]

Guys thanks very much for all this invaluable information. Think I will order that GSPEC! Then once I get a feel for it out of the box maybe for a few upgrades, the looks I will just have to learn to love but the performance of the gun is what comes first. Will let you all know when I get it!

[ItsAJ]

I have both, right here's my opinion lol

 

GSPEC: Superb gun, the 330mm barrel it comes with is top notch! Silencer works and the bolt handle is much better than the VSR pro. Even barrel so spacing is easy.

Pro: Slightly lighter and shorter than the GSPEC... That's it!

 

I first off bought the GSPEC and had it upgraded by ASPUK, for 6 months it was awesome! I could hit targets at 90 meters and it was fun! However, I learned about the dreaded joule creep and that's when I realized that the GSPEC takes full advantage of JC to give it "Hidden power", I swapped the internals out a few times and currently I'm running a 430mm Laylax barrel (Drilled out the end cap so it can intrude into the silencer) plus It's running the Mancraft SDIK kit with an external HPA source. With a .45 I can hit the 75 meter target nicely and that's with zero creep.

 

Recently I spent out and bought the edgi kit (The one Novritch uses) and I decided to go VSR pro route. Out of the box it doesn't come with a rail so that cost me another £15. I didn't have to alter anything to fit the kit, the barrel went in nicely and the only front end thing I changed was the hop arm to a type B. (I did R hop it too but that's another story).

 

TBH, I'd get a Gspec every time! It's a nice gun, you can easily fit a longer barrel if need be.

 

It's the I have the TM vsr g-spec I have.

I prefare the vsr to be honest, as there is wayy more upgrade parts available, it's lighter, mags are cheaper and it's cheaper to buy new.

But then again my vsr is mancrafted (it's HPA, not Spring powered) so it has a rediculusly light bolt pull, mancraft do not do a kit for the TM l96 aws

I think I covered this earlier, but barrels mean nothing in airsoft. Sure, you may get a marginally higher muzzle energy but you can just upgrade the spring to mitigate that. There's also the issue of a longer barrel costing more, having to buy a rail (Pro Sniper versions don't come with one, like Snakeeyes said).

 

If you find the barrel too short then you can always but a much nicer, longer one off PDI in the future anyway, but some people just attach a suppressor permanently and run the inner-barrel through it (giving an overall inner-barrel length of up to about 450mm). Again - and I can't stress this enough - barrel length is not very important in airsoft.

 

Also, look into the Mancraft SDiK kit. Discussed in other threads (use the search) but a reliable and surprisingly affordable upgrade route for the VSR when you offset its cost against what you'd usually have to buy in a springer setup but don't.

 

One final thing: Most of the TM VSRs come with a pinned cylinder head that's a bit of a pain to remove for later spring changes and upgrades. You'd likely be looking to swap the cylinder later on if you go for the conventional springer route, but if you do like the look of the SDiK then that pin can cause issues as switching the cylinder to just a normal threaded one is mostly a waste of money with the SDiK. I say this because a lot of the clones - like the JG BAR - come with a threaded cylinder. If you come to the conclusion that an SDiK might be a route you want to try then reconsider buying a clone.

 

What is the advantage of the Mancraft kit instead of the spring? Would it send it way over the 1 joule limit? Funny that's one of the main reason I thought about the Pro because Novritsch uses it and I had been looking at this upgrade, but if you have both and still think the GSPEC then that says alot.

[proffrink]

This is discussed in a lot of threads so I won't go into detail, but you can change the muzzle energy to whatever you like, has a shorter and lighter bolt cycle (you can get shots off quicker) and doesn't require a lot of the upgrade parts like sears and trigger mechanism that a spring build requires. Can run off HPA or CO₂ (with an adapter), which makes it cheap to run as well.

 

Also, my point about the GSpec was the clones - the JG BAR, are slightly more upgrade-friendly purely because the cylinder isn't pinned. If you go down the SDiK route and are upgrading the barrel and hop unit anyway then it's not worth buying a Marui as it's a waste of money if you're stripping out all the good bits and the ones with pinned cylinders can be a bit of a pain to get open if you're not swapping the cylinder (which you wouldn't want to in an SDiK as it won't give any performance upgrade). Someone will probably come in any confirm this, but you may be alright anyway as I think the newer Gspecs have the cylinder just threaded anyway *shrugs*.

 

If you have the money to upgrade now then go SDiK in a JG BAR (Gpsec) or similar. If not (or you want to upgrade to spring later on) then the TM VSR (Gpsec) is your best choice. Really this all boils down to whether or not you want to upgrade immediately (the SDiK giving the flexibility to shoot at 1J until you move, or by just setting up a springer with a weaker spring and then swapping it when you do more) or if you want to bide your time with the stock rifle for a bit, because the JG BAR is a good platform for upgrades and will save you a fair bit of money, but ultimately isn't much good stock like the TM is.

[ItsAJ]

This is discussed in a lot of threads so I won't go into detail, but you can change the muzzle energy to whatever you like, has a shorter and lighter bolt cycle (you can get shots off quicker) and doesn't require a lot of the upgrade parts like sears and trigger mechanism that a spring build requires. Can run off HPA or CO₂ (with an adapter), which makes it cheap to run as well.

 

Also, my point about the GSpec was the clones - the JG BAR, are slightly more upgrade-friendly purely because the cylinder isn't pinned. If you go down the SDiK route and are upgrading the barrel and hop unit anyway then it's not worth buying a Marui as it's a waste of money if you're stripping out all the good bits and the ones with pinned cylinders can be a bit of a pain to get open if you're not swapping the cylinder (which you wouldn't want to in an SDiK as it won't give any performance upgrade). Someone will probably come in any confirm this, but you may be alright anyway as I think the newer Gspecs have the cylinder just threaded anyway *shrugs*.

 

If you have the money to upgrade now then go SDiK in a JG BAR (Gpsec) or similar. If not (or you want to upgrade to spring later on) then the TM VSR (Gpsec) is your best choice. Really this all boils down to whether or not you want to upgrade immediately (the SDiK giving the flexibility to shoot at 1J until you move, or by just setting up a springer with a weaker spring and then swapping it when you do more) or if you want to bide your time with the stock rifle for a bit, because the JG BAR is a good platform for upgrades and will save you a fair bit of money, but ultimately isn't much good stock like the TM is.

Thanks That was great info,I will get the TM and shoot it stock until anything changes, then I can spread the cost out too while still having a great stock rifle. That SDik sounds so good, to be able to adjust power on the fly would be amazing. I will have to recommend it to my friend that runs a Gas MP7, he gets about 3 shots in this cold before it all goes downhill.

Now for me to hunt down a shop that has the GSPEC in that OD!

[proffrink]

The SDiK is made specifically for sniper rifles. Your friend should look in to HPA-tapping his magazines but that requires a pretty costly regulator and tank - the SDiK can run off CO₂ and has quite a cheap, low volume (but very small) regulator as it doesn't need a high refresh rate like you would for fully automatic fire.

 

Here's the one I built: http://www.airsoft-forums.co.uk/index.php/topic/29031-vsr-sdik-build-n-ting/

 

Shizbazki did a great video on fitting one and how easy it is to fit (also demonstrates what the kit really is):

 

 

They're beginning to get a bit more popular now that people have realised how affordable it is when you factor in the cost of what you would have spent on a new trigger mech, cylinder, piston, spring, spring guide and nozzle if you were to go the spring route. Plus CO₂ is absolutely dirt cheap if you buy the bulbs from the right place.

 

Once that's done you obviously want to spend a lot of time on your hop unit and barrel as they're where you'll get the accuracy from - the SDiK is just a consistent power source.