TM VSR-10 help/suggestions

[Mos]

Hey guys,

 

Tommorow a VSR-10 should arrive (yay) had to wait a whip for this. I know the sniper is pretty bad out the box, but then, aren't they all? Obviously I'll have a few shots at a target at like 15 metres, because, why not..

 

I have an upgrade list, and I kind of know where I'm going to start. But I'm not too sure, I've read that the trigger needs a nice 90 degree trigger in there, as I will be upgrading the springs, along with a better hop arm to lift heavier BBs, spring guide etc etc. but, really, where should I start? Any owners out there, and if so what did you do first? Apart from test fires and taking lots of photos of it (lol). So basically what should I do? I think I know what I am going to do, but not sure.

 

Thanks guys.

[proffrink]

I think we may have established that the savings you get from not buying a 90 degree trigger, piston, cylinder, spring and nozzle put a hefty dent in the amount it costs to just get an SDiKs and keep all the action stock. May be worth considering.

 

If you want a 90 degree trigger then you should upgrade it all at once. You can get away with not doing the cylinder, but certainly the guide, spring, piston, nozzle (although you should be ok on this too) are good. Once you have the power source sorted though, the obvious accuracy comes from the hop and barrel.

 

The Action Army hop unit is relatively new on the market and is getting good reviews, but plenty of people get excellent results from some simply DIY mods (the two things you want are a good airseal and even hop pressure) and a new bucking. Barrel wise, you get what you pay for (as you've probably guessed by now) - PDI, LayLax/Prometheus/First Factory, ORGA, EdGI etc - they're all great. I would still maintain a wider bore of 6.05 (even as high as 6.23) to counteract some of the 'expanding ammo' problems we've been seeing lately as well as working to provide a more consistent hop.

 

Barrel spacers are also a good idea. PDI have free shipping right now via X-fire.org, so you can grab some for less than a tenner. You can even make your own with relative ease too.

 

Whichever you do (action or barrel and hop) - do them all at once as two groups.

 

Like I say though, consider the SDiK with CO₂ adapter; CO₂ is cheap and the cost may not be as much as you think once you factor in what you no longer need to replace if you were to go down the spring route.

[sp00n]

It's a personal preference on upgrade path, have a read here :- http://www.airsoftsniperparts.com/upgrading-a-

 

Or here :- http://www.airsoftsniperforum.com/41-vsr-rifles/6075-advanced-vsr-sniper-building-guide.html

 

 

My advice would be to go with an action army hop (and a good hop rubber, a TM one will be fine) unit first, as this lets you use your gun, and get some accuracy. Then do trigger/cylinder/Spring/piston/Spring guide/cylinder head all in one go

 

Last of all if you wish, replace the barrel with a high quality item

[Mos]

Seems CO2 is a decent idea, I'll have a look into that. Thanks for giving the idea on what to upgrade. Lots of people go for AA parts, thanks sp00n for recommending them to me.

 

Thanks for the help guys, very useful and I'm very grateful.

[proffrink]

AA aren't great at everything and a lot of their designs are very old. Their hop unit is great though.

[sp00n]

Lots of people go for AA parts, thanks sp00n for recommending them to me.

 

.

Just stick to the AA hop unit, Like proffink say a lot of AA stuff is old and expensive

[Mos]

Oh right. Ok, saw lots of people go full AA I originally was not going to do that" I used to think the TM VSR's hop chamber was quite good. But I might as well change it. Thanks guys

[Dannn]

Strangely enough, I've stuck with the stick JG hop unit even through pretty much everyone else is upgraded,I've flattened the mating surfaces so it goes together perfectly and I'm getting really good results from it.

At the moment I don't feel the need to change it, I might in the new year when I've got spare cash.

[Mos]

Oh nice, I will probably stick with my hop unit, and just get a new arm, a new bucking and well that's it for the hop unit.

[Shizbazki]

Hi

 

As you have got a brand new and clean VSR-10 i would strongly recommend you go for Mancrafts SDiK kit rather than trying to upgrade it in its spring form.

 

I bought a second hand VSR-10 that had some ASPUK bits and pieces in it with a M150 spring, whilst nice i found the bolt draw (as you are fighting the spring) to cock the weapon really difficult even when it was checked, aligned and regreased. Whilst i could shoot maybe 1 round per second my hands and arm got really tired after 1 or 2 mags. I was about to get rid of it as it was too tiresome to be using such a gun until one day when i was at work i was called to a house by a neighbour to a kid who was apparently shooting BBs in his back garden, i asked to see his weapons and in his back garden he had an SVD Dragunov converted to fire on CO2 and he showed me to Mancrafts shop. On a side note the kid was damn lucky that of all the officers who attended it was me.

 

Anyways back on track, I have just priced up a full kit from ASPUK, this includes:

M150 Spring @ £6.49

Steel Spring guide @ £10.97

Cylinder Head @ £13.97

Cylinder @ £42.00

Piston @ £37.22

VSR 0 degree EZ Trigger @ £79.99

Shipping £5.50

TOTAL: £196.14

 

So basically as much as the VSR-10 itself.

On the other hand the Mancraft kit should set you back around £150, this price will include:

Mancraft SDiK kit

Mancraft Regulator

Mancraft CO2 adapter

and some spare parts

 

It's basically a complete set, you can reuse your stock trigger set and stock body.

 

Best yet the bolt draw on the SDiK is comparable to a normal RS rifle bolt draw, i compared it to a Lee Enfield SMLE Mk4 rifles bolt drawn and the SDiK i would say is less than that, you can basically cock the rifle using only two fingers.

 

With some cash left over you can buy a good scope and hop up chamber barrel etc.

 

Like others i would recommend the Action Army chamber (mine is on its way from HK).

 

SHAMELESS PLUG

If you need help to install the SDiK and see it in some action watch my Youtube video on it, Proffink used it for help and Mancraft have even linked it on their website:

[Mos]

Yeah, however much someone temps me into this mancraft stuff. I just like the idea of a manual shot, instead of using CO2, plus when it gets colder, the gas particles lose their energy resulting them to slow down and start to condense, meaning the gas is less powerful. Isn't this true? I am pretty sure it is, anyways thanks again.

[Dannn]

I'm on the Mancraft band wagon too it's a fantastic kit, I was using mine last night and it was 3'c and worked flawlessly st the usual 500 fps

[proffrink]

Yeah, however much someone temps me into this mancraft stuff. I just like the idea of a manual shot, instead of using CO2, plus when it gets colder, the gas particles lose their energy resulting them to slow down and start to condense, meaning the gas is less powerful. Isn't this true? I am pretty sure it is, anyways thanks again.

I'm not sure how the two things are in any way different in terms of performance beyond the fact that the SDiK can be quickly tuned without the need to fiddle with springs. CO₂ will perform fine down to about -5^oC. It doesn't contract anywhere near as much as propane.

[sp00n]

Yeah, however much someone temps me into this mancraft stuff. I just like the idea of a manual shot, instead of using CO2, plus when it gets colder, the gas particles lose their energy resulting them to slow down and start to condense, meaning the gas is less powerful. Isn't this true? I am pretty sure it is, anyways thanks again.

Not co2 or hpa for that matter, they are not effected by temperature (-5 I have seen co2 still work), as they are stored under pressure and not a liquid in airsoft use.

 

Green gas/144a etc those are effected by temperature, as they are stored as a liquid in airsoft use. and going from a liquid to a gas is an endothermic reaction (requires heat/energy) etc

[Josh95]

wow i wish that kit was around when i had my vsr, that looks neat.

No idea why you would want to pull back a spring over the gas bolt, its less realistic and a pain but to each their own a guess

[Shizbazki]

Yeah, however much someone temps me into this mancraft stuff. I just like the idea of a manual shot, instead of using CO2, plus when it gets colder, the gas particles lose their energy resulting them to slow down and start to condense, meaning the gas is less powerful. Isn't this true? I am pretty sure it is, anyways thanks again.

 

For CO2 the simple answer is NO, you are confusing Green Gas (Propane or C3H8 or 3 Carbon Atoms and 8 Hydrogen Atoms) with CO2 (1 Carbon Atom and 2 Oxygen Atoms).

 

The Mancraft kit is able to accept HPA (which i plan to move to once i get my P* stuff) and CO2.

 

In terms of shooting a VSR-10 your options are:

Mancraft kit and HPA or High Pressured Air, this is at the moment the best stuff going, normally stored in a separate tank between 3000 to 4500 PSI and through a series of regulators (normally two for airsoft) is stepped down to more manageable pressures, suffers NO cool down and is not affected by cold weather, it is therefore the MOST stable gas used by airsofters.

 

Mancraft kit and CO2. CO2 is decent, it is under high pressure at about 800PSI in a small 12g bulb, it is not affected by the Cold, it only has one drawback in that rapid firing CO2 guns causes them to cool off, in other words the gun gets colder and so does the bulb forming condense water which immediately freezes to ice, at the rate of fire with the Mancraft kit you will never see this as you are simply not firing fast enough to cause it.

 

VSR-10 Green Gas Cylinder - These are probably the worse things ever, it basically replaces the cylinder with a small gas chamber which you fill with Green Gas, Green Gas is basically Propane with additives such as silicone and perfume so doesn't smell like farts. It is affected by temperature and in an ideal world we would play airsoft in temperature controlled environments at 21C all the time for it to be used optimally.

 

Old Bolt and Spring - nothing wrong with it as you pointed out, it is reliable as it uses basic mechanics to fire the gun and is not affected by cold, hot etc. HOWEVER if you have ever shot a real bolt action rifle before you will instantly notice 2 things about this rifle that is unrealistic, you seem to be after realism so:

1: The bolt pull or draw length, in real rifles such as the Lee Enfield SMLE and its variant, the bolt only needs to be pulled about 5cm or so (depending on calibre) to load each round, on the VSR-10 it is around 10 to 15cms. If you watch my video you see that my right hand never goes off screen, when using the VSR 10 stock you really need to pull that Mofo back to ensure it is correctly cocked.

2: In the Mancraft kit the bolt can be drawn using just two fingers as the spring inside the kit is quite weak (the spring is not used for firing the BB, merely it just helps maintain a seal inside the SDiK, on a fully upgraded VSR-10 with an M150 spring inside it your arm will suffer as will the palm of your hand, even with gloves on i was suffering the early signs of blistering when shooting the VSR-10 in battles using an M150 spring.

 

It up to you what you want to do, you asked for advice and the overwhelming advice was go for the Mancraft SDiK kit which only costs £150 and you can get it in about a week or you can go to ASPUK and get all your bits for under £200 but might have to wait for that Zero Trigger. If you do decide to go stay spring (you'll regret it) i would strongly recommend you save up and get everything in one fell swoop, most important thing to get would be the Zero Trigger.

[proffrink]

VSR-10 Green Gas Cylinder - These are probably the worse things ever, it basically replaces the cylinder with a small gas chamber which you fill with Green Gas, Green Gas is basically Propane with additives such as silicone and perfume so doesn't smell like farts. It is affected by temperature and in an ideal world we would play airsoft in temperature controlled environments at 21C all the time for it to be used optimally.

Actually it's the absence of perfume that makes it smell alright. Neat propane, by law, has to have additives so that you can smell a leak. Propane itself is odourless

 

Source: Professional fart smeller/smart feller.

 

It up to you what you want to do, you asked for advice and the overwhelming advice was go for the Mancraft SDiK kit which only costs £150 and you can get it in about a week or you can go to ASPUK and get all your bits for under £200 but might have to wait for that Zero Trigger. If you do decide to go stay spring (you'll regret it) i would strongly recommend you save up and get everything in one fell swoop, most important thing to get would be the Zero Trigger.

Airsoft-pro.cz - Version 2 trigger (with the safety) and quick shipping times.

[Shizbazki]

Actually it's the absence of perfume that makes it smell alright. Neat propane, by law, has to have additives so that you can smell a leak. Propane itself is odourless

 

Doh i meant the other way around, wasn't thinking straight lol

 

I see that Airsoft-Pro.cz do indeed have the Zero Trigger for about £55, certainly cheaper, I have a sneaky suspicion that ASPUK may be bulk buying these and then putting on a profit hike on the end of it, cos they are charging near £80 for one

[proffrink]

They are. I thought this was well known - they have a semi-partnership with Airsoft Pro. The cylinders, guides, springs, triggers etc. are all theirs, heh.

[Mos]

So, to get this straight, this CO2 stuff works in a way like a gas gun? I'm confused, I'll google it.

[Shizbazki]

Right the CO2 Mancraft kit works like a Gas or CO2 rifle does (see the ones made by G&G) except that instead of filling a gas reservoir in the mag you instead have a macro line that goes from the SDiK to the regulator, the regulator has a CO2 bulb inside of it which is basically your Gas reservoir.

 

As it uses CO2 it does not suffer from cold weather like Green Gas does in pistols, you still have to cock it for each shot like you would a real rifle, you still use the TM Mags, stock, trigger assembly and cylinder.

 

You get about 100 shots from 1 x 12g CO2 bulb and maybe thousands from a HPA bottle.

[Mos]

Mhm, seems cool. Thanks for explaining much appreciated. So where it benefits is it doesn't require strength to pull the bolt? I'll probably go for the spring manual route, for a newish air softer, I don't want to delve into mancraft stuff. It may seem a good idea (which it is) but for a silly fool like me, it's quite a step ahead.

 

Thanks very much.

[proffrink]

The benefit is it has an incredibly stable, adjustable output and a very small (relative to the stock) spring that has a very short pull. I don't know why you'd think a spring setup is easier than an SDiK from what we've told you here but go for whatever you're happy with spending on of course.

 

I should say I've now built a complete L96 in which nothing is stock but the stock and receiver housing, and I've just now done the same with a VSR where only the stock has remained unchanged and frankly neither was 'easier' than the other. 75% of your time is going to be in getting the hop right though - the rest is really basic. Putting an SDiK in isn't going to change that.