The best tactical AK74 out there?

[Ian_Gere]

I get it. At least i'll go down in style

And that, may friend, is the name of the game!

 

Ian, your "60m head shots, first shot, raising the gun to your shoulder from muzzle down, with an AEG firing 0.25g BB's @310FPS" sound scary. my local field Airsoft team needs to shoot A LOT of BBs to hit someone. The name of the game is just put the gun in auto and spray BBs around.

Ahhh... the "spray and pray" approach. I used to do that, and it is a lot of fun. But games often go to stalemate that way; with each side behind cover, at sufficient range that they cannot get an accurate shot on target, because the BB's are out of energy, just dropping. Which is when a well tuned gun, is worth every €uro you have spent and more, because you can pop someone who only shows his gun and head, and do it quickly, which is important, because once they know you can shoot that far, they will not sit there looking at you so long!

 

But to get that performance, you need very consistent power, which requires a better air-seal than any stock gun is supplied with, and very stable hop up, which few stock guns have, and even those which do have it, lose much of that stability in the barrel. Plus you need quick trigger response, which requires a gearbox cycle speed of at least 18/s, which is faster than most stock guns, unless they can use 11.1V LiPo batteries. Most stock gearboxes will wear out fairly quickly, if you use an 11.1V battery, and those which do not are actually not cycling that fast anyway - much of the battery energy is being wasted on high resistance circuits, and poor friction characteristics of gears, shims, piston, etc. so, although they are cycling faster than average, say 16/s, that is still not impressive, when you consider that a good rewire, MOSFET, grease, and shim job, will get that from an 8.4V NiMh battery...

[Sitting Duck]

opening can of worms......

 

Or rich bastids with tippmann/polarstar

(but I ain't THAT rich and tbh I feel they aren't real airsoft guns - ooh 2 x cans of worms now)

[Gargamel]

And that, may friend, is the name of the game!

 

Ahhh... the "spray and pray" approach. I used to do that, and it is a lot of fun. But games often go to stalemate that way; with each side behind cover, at sufficient range that they cannot get an accurate shot on target, because the BB's are out of energy, just dropping. Which is when a well tuned gun, is worth every €uro you have spent and more, because you can pop someone who only shows his gun and head, and do it quickly, which is important, because once they know you can shoot that far, they will not sit there looking at you so long!

 

But to get that performance, you need very consistent power, which requires a better air-seal than any stock gun is supplied with, and very stable hop up, which few stock guns have, and even those which do have it, lose much of that stability in the barrel. Plus you need quick trigger response, which requires a gearbox cycle speed of at least 18/s, which is faster than most stock guns, unless they can use 11.1V LiPo batteries. Most stock gearboxes will wear out fairly quickly, if you use an 11.1V battery, and those which do not are actually not cycling that fast anyway - much of the battery energy is being wasted on high resistance circuits, and poor friction characteristics of gears, shims, piston, etc. so, although they are cycling faster than average, say 16/s, that is still not impressive, when you consider that a good rewire, MOSFET, grease, and shim job, will get that from an 8.4V NiMh battery...

 

So in terms of "best possible" out of the box airsoft gun, which one (or a couple of them) would be good by your terms? AK or another type. Which one gives you the most in terms of accurate and reliable shooting and is also durable and apropriate for future upgrades?

[Ian_Gere]

opening can of worms......

 

Or rich bastids with tippmann/polarstar

(but I ain't THAT rich and tbh I feel they aren't real airsoft guns - ooh 2 x cans of worms now)

HPA doesn't guarantee hop up stability.

 

 

So in terms of "best possible" out of the box airsoft gun, which one (or a couple of them) would be good by your terms? AK or another type. Which one gives you the most in terms of accurate and reliable shooting and is also durable and apropriate for future upgrades?

I bought a CYMA CM.048 - so far I have refinished the woodwork, replaced the pistol grip, replaced the hop up bucking, replaced all the wiring, replaced the small Tamiya connectors with Deans, and added a MOSFET. The spring was downgraded to a Guarder SP100 by taiwangun. It is good fun as it is and i am happy to skirmish it. It's good for 55m, snap shooting, man sized targets.

 

But I will eventually replace most of the internals...

 

My next new AK will be a D-Boys (Boyi) AKS-74, and I will replace all the internals, before i even skirmish it. I will also replace the handguards with those from a real steel AK-74, and wrap the stock with a real Soviet era rubber tourniquet.

...oh yeah, and that's an Element Butt Pad, and the straps are from a Soviet issue portupeya.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Ian_Gere
pic

[Gargamel]

Why is Dboys so much cheaper from Cyma? As i can see, the externals are better then Cymas and internals are not that worser at all. Difference in price is at least 25% or more. I can get Dboys AKS-74 for around 150 to 160 Eur. Cyma AK74 is more in 190 eur range.

[Ian_Gere]

Don't be fooled - the internals of D-Boys AK's are not to be trusted. I wouldn't bother with most of their externals either, but they do make a steel AKS-74 which is a VFC clone, the same as LCT and CYMA CM.048 and above. It turns out cheaper to buy the gun, than to buy the steel body parts separately. Also buying the whole gun, allows the new internals to be fitted, before i have to pay for the new externals I want, so it will not be so expensive all at once.

[Gargamel]

Well i guess Cyma Cm048 it is plus extra rails. Too bad there isn't a version with foldable stock. From Cyma, others have it. Now i need to wait for someone to stock it

[Gargamel]

Would anyone help me put together a really good looking gun? Performance would be stock Cyma CM048 like.

 

So i'm planning to buy Cyma CM048, which is a stock wooden AK 74. I want this gun looks more badass that already is so this is what i want to do with it:

 

- Buy extra waffle midcap magazines. Which one would fit without extra work?

- Buy barrel - handguard upper rails: http://www.taiwangun.com/en/ak-74-aluminium-handguard-with-gas-tube-cm?from=listing&campaign-id=19 that will replace upper part of wood

- replace wooden stock with folding one (don't know which one really and if that works at all)

- buy silencer that will maybe even give me more accuracy (longer barrel). Which one would be a direct fit?

- Scope or IR dot...i have no idea which one and what is best for skirmishes and home practise

[Ian_Gere]

Well, the CM.048 is an AK-74, and waffle mags are generally AK-47 banana mags. You can get Beta Project AK-74 mags with a waffle design though, but they are not cheap. You may want to have a look at the CM.048M which is an AKM-47... although many 47 mags will fit in airsoft 74's.

 

Longer barrels do not improve accuracy, generally. Although if you replace the stock barrel, with a much better quality one, it will improve accuracy, however that would be true, even if the replacement were shorter than the original.

 

To fit a folding stock, to an AK with a wooden stock, is not so simple. AK's with side folding stocks, have a different receiver design, to those with wooden stocks. You can fit a stock adapter, which will allow you to use AR stocks - like this, or this. But the classic tactical AK folding stock, like this, does not fit onto a CM.048 - you could modify it however, because the basic design is similar.

 

But if your plan is to turn a CM.048 into a TX-63, you will not be able to do it with off the shelf parts.

[Ian_Gere]

How about one of these? You could fit a wooden lower handguard to that...

 

The body is not steel however.

[Samurai]

Cymas nowdays have pretty decent 6.04 barrels, you won't get any measurable benefit replacing it with an other precision barrel.

[TacMaster]

Cymas nowdays have pretty decent 6.04 barrels, you won't get any measurable benefit replacing it with an other precision barrel.

 

It's not just bore, it's barrel quality as well. I'd much rather have a nice high-quality aftermarket 6.04Ø barrel (if they were common) than the stock Cyma barrel.

[Samurai]

 

It's not just bore, it's barrel quality as well.

I know. That's what I meant by "pretty decent". They are actually very-very good quality. Even the rubber is better than most aftermarket ones.

[Gargamel]

 

 

Well, the CM.048 is an AK-74, and waffle mags are generally AK-47 banana mags. You can get Beta Project AK-74 mags with a waffle design though, but they are not cheap. You may want to have a look at the CM.048M which is an AKM-47... although many 47 mags will fit in airsoft 74's.

 

Longer barrels do not improve accuracy, generally. Although if you replace the stock barrel, with a much better quality one, it will improve accuracy, however that would be true, even if the replacement were shorter than the original.

 

To fit a folding stock, to an AK with a wooden stock, is not so simple. AK's with side folding stocks, have a different receiver design, to those with wooden stocks. You can fit a stock adapter, which will allow you to use AR stocks - like this, or this. But the classic tactical AK folding stock, like this, does not fit onto a CM.048 - you could modify it however, because the basic design is similar.

 

But if your plan is to turn a CM.048 into a TX-63, you will not be able to do it with off the shelf parts.

 

 

How about one of these? You could fit a wooden lower handguard to that...

 

The body is not steel however.

 

I think i'll be pretty happy with CM048 performance, i just want to make it look a bit more "tactical". CM048M is not in stock basically anywhere. And i want steel parts as much as possible.

 

I found waffel magazines by Cyma, which fit to lower end models, but it says they can fit to 48 and up range if you sand down a piece that locks into the gun.

 

Silencer will be for looks first, function second. Which one you think would be a good adition?

 

I can live with wooden stock, my only concern is CQB battle that will happen sometimes. And i thought using the gun with folded stock there.

 

WHat about scopes or IR sights? Are any of these good and usable or is iron sight the best choice (or just spray and pray)?

[Ian_Gere]

IMO any other suppressor than a PBS1 looks wrong on an AK-74. There are a number of different manufacturers, but you will want one which is definitely aluminium, not aluminium alloy, or it will be very heavy.

 

Sights are also a thorny issue. There is no doubt that red dot sights, make target acquisition faster, but many of them do not look right on AK's, particularly AK's with wooden furniture. The Kobra sight is the best looking, but the replicas are out of stock worldwide. There is a new-ish PKA replica sight available, which I think KH Mountain have in stock.

 

Or you could go with a C-More style sight on a dual side mount, which will look more tactical than a simple side mount. You could also fit a laser on the dual mount, although red lasers are useless outdoors.

[Gargamel]

Thanks for all the info. Still waiting for a refund for my lemon E&L gun and when i'll get it, i'll go for Cyma. I want AK74, so CM048 will probably be the one.

 

I just missed an action price for VFC Ak74 for 320 eur, but i believe cheaper Cyma with accessories will be good enough for me.

[Gargamel]

Interesting, Cyma has now CM048 model, which is standard AK 74 and now CM048M, which looks like standard wooden AK 47. Can anyone confirm, that that is that or am i missing something?

http://www.taiwangun.com/en/cm-048-cm?from=listing&campaign-id=19

 

http://www.taiwangun.com/en/cm-048m-cm?from=listing&campaign-id=19

[Ian_Gere]

^^I linked you to the CM.048M above - it is an AKM-47 (the receiver, gas tube, flash compensator, and pistol grip, are slightly different to an original AK-47).

[Ian_Gere]

Just got an email from taiwangun to say they have CM.050A EBBR's on sale...

[Gargamel]

Just got an email from taiwangun to say they have CM.050A EBBR's on sale...

Yeah i saw it but it's not AK74 and somehow it doesn't look that good with this thin stock. Any idea if internaly is the same as CM048M or other "high end" Cymas?

[Ian_Gere]

Not quite the same - it has electric blow back.

 

Internally, the "high end" CYMAs are not so different, from the lower numbered ones. It is the externals which changed a lot, when they began the VFC clone range. So a CM.040J (for e.g.) is the same internally, as a CM.048. The CM.050A uses the same EBB, as the CM.046 - the bolt does not travel all the way back, the cocking handle is just connected to the piston, plus there is no recoil - it is just a 'fun' feature, and can be disconnected fairly easily.

 

The steel folding stock on the CM.050A, has a good reputation for sturdiness. It will be not very different, if at all, from the real steel Romanian AIMS. Obviously it is not a 74, but we have also been talking about the CM.048M and also the LCT TX-63, which are both 47 variants.

[Gargamel]

With all ak47 variants i really hate the tip of a barrel (flashhider?) which is cut in 45 degrees angle or shaped like a trumpet. I also like some wood on the gun in combination with tactical front grip, rails etc.

 

I will still probably go with cm048 and mod it but gunfire.pl still didn't refund my broken E&L and they say it is in service/repair now so i just don't know what the hell are they doing for so long. I guess they will try to fix it or they can't decide what to do. E&L informed me, that gunfire.pl told them that they have finshed my complaint but gunfire.pl told me, that E&L has nothing to do with them and the gun is still in service.

 

Frustrated...

[Ian_Gere]

It used to be very difficult to get a replacement flash hider, for the "trumpet shaped" 74 variants, but these days there is an A.P.S. 24mm +/CW ported typical AK-74 flash hider. And you can change the diagonal AKM 'compensator' (that is its proper name), for any 14mm -/CCW flash hider, like this for e.g., or AK-47 plain muzzle.

[Gargamel]

It used to be very difficult to get a replacement flash hider, for the "trumpet shaped" 74 variants, but these days there is an A.P.S. 24mm +/CW ported typical AK-74 flash hider. And you can change the diagonal AKM 'compensator' (that is its proper name), for any 14mm -/CCW flash hider, like this for e.g., or AK-47 plain muzzle.

You, sir, are making this hard for me I'm actualy happy that refund didn't come yet, because then i would already buy something. Since it didn't, i can still think about it and what kind of mods would fit best

 

Can you make red dot sight really accurate? I used to have JG M4 with red dot sight (don't know which one) and whatever i did with it, it wasn't accurate even on 10 to 20m. Does red dot sight on Cyma AK74 (CM048) shake when it is under stress and you try to aim something? YOu said Kobra is hard to find, any other direct fit red dot sight that is also reliable and accurate?

[Ian_Gere]

we aim to please

 

The red dot I have on my CM.048, is zeroed pretty well. It is perfect for windage (the left/right adjustment), but elevation (the up/down adjustment) is very dependant upon range - I have mine set for approximately 35m, which means I am often aiming up (ie my target is below the reticule). The reason I set it that way, is because that is the distance to the most convenient target, which I can aim at, out of my back bedroom window. In use the sight does not shake.

 

I have also used a replica Elcan Spectre 3.4x zoom scope on it, and that held its zero just fine also (although due to the mount, having been adjusted for an SVD, and the scope's adjuster being quite limited, the reticule was just left of target, at maximum windage). It is quite heavy, and also tall, so if shaking was going to be a problem with anything, that scope would have caused it, but as i say, it didn't.

 

I red dot I use is one of these. It does fit onto 20mm rails as well as 11mm: you just turn the clamps upside down. I now have it on a better mount made by ICS. Which is considerably more expensive than necessary, but I got it 2nd hand for a good price. One of these would do the job just fine.