testing the water - milsim

[Richie Boyle]

I know there are milsim days but I am not keen on the current practice from what I have so far picked up on them. It sounds like a normal game day minus the safezone which doesn't sound very realistic.

 

I was talking about upscaling that on facebook last night. 24 to 30 hours in the field which means cooking, sleeping, guard roster etc etc etc while 2 or more teams have their own objectives to complete within that time limit. During a game you know when your team is attacking OR defending so the only question is which direction. Change that to your team is attacking AND defending (as is every team) so you now need to factor in splitting the team into roles and nobody has any idea when an attack is likely to take place. Assuming your base is on someone's else's list of objectives of course. You wouldn't know where each team base is and it may be that team has to pick a site themselves to set up a base.

 

would anyone be interested in something like this?

[jcheeseright]

Already being done to great effect by Stirling and tier 1 milsim.

[Richie Boyle]

was it successful? I would travel for a longer event but not for a single day

[BrightCandle]

Really to be true milsim you want the choice to attack or defend and various objectives and how they are captured and such in the hands of the command and the leaders of the various parts of the army, ie its not set by the organisers. That way the battle is fluid and objectives can be won and lost over the event.

[jay83]

Longmoor site is 100% worth a visit, its a mock town with 20 plus houses, train track ect its amazing

[jcheeseright]

stirling and tier 1 have both been putting on a number of events a year for a very long time, they're definitely successful. Takes a LOT of resources to do it properly though, vehicles, command radios, people willing to 'be' certain roles (high value targets, leaders etc).

[Baz JJ]

There are lots of flavours of milsim already out there. I find it is very difficult to get much information on what is available in any detail by googling and studying the Internet.

 

There are lots of companies doing these but each seems to have a loyal and almost inward facing following. None of them seem very good at conveying what they offer and how they differentiate themselves from the others. Its almost like you are expected to know or you come and try it and work it out by trial and error.

 

No milsim is 100% realistic for a variety of reasons but not limited to the experience and training of the players themselves. Some companies offer training on the grounds that they are ex military themselves.

 

In a real military situation, the participants would be limited in their choices so what level of control is realistic and reasonable ?

 

I have a non-financial interest in a milsim operation called Okto Eight. As the name suggests, we decided to focus on 8 hour battles that span a weekend on the basis that some airsofters wish to try Milsims but don't necessarily want to play continuously for 24-36 hours. Its just another flavour. The battle stops after around 8 hours, people can either go home or camp for the night and have a few beers, a campfire and it starts again next morning, where they left off.

 

In terms of decision making, we took the view that the scenario would be set and the players themselves would decide where it went. There is public domain information which is shown on the Facebook page and there are secret groups for each participating interest. Privileged information and intel is shown in the groups, but as in real life, each force has different slices of the real picture.

 

The teams get to choose their leaders and although there are overriding missions to be carried out which are set by command, as they are in real life, the teams get to choose how to accomplish them with the available assets.

 

The outcome of one weekend operation carries across to the next, so it is a little like a TV series. My partners are experienced in running immersive milsims and we can play at a number of sites. The MOD are a pain to deal with because operational requirements will always come first so they can cancel at the last minute, However, as organisers we can hire a number of privately owned ex MOD airfields and facilities.

[Ian_Gere]

What puts me off milsim as per Tier 1 and Sterling, is the tabbing miles carrying your kit in a bergen. Realistic? Yes. Fun? No.

 

I also don't believe that realcap mags make for realistic skirmishing. A real gun shoots through stuff we use as cover and light gusts of air do not massively deflect shots, so it can take many more shots to get a hit at 50m than it would take with an assault rifle. Also people are not afraid of being killed in airsoft, so they are braver than they would be facing real ammunition - hence it takes more firepower to suppress them.

 

I would like to take part in a more immersive event than standard skirmishing and had I not earmarked my cash for NAE14 rather than your event, Baz, I would have given it a go. As it turned out I couldn't do NAE anyway because I was too unwell :'( are there still places (because I'm a lot better now, just unfit as fuck!)?

 

Having said that, I'm not put off by 24hrs or more with no safe zone, digging a hole to shit in, the risk that i could be shot while shitting in a hole even I don't mind taking orders either, so long as whoever gives them understands that if they talk to me like I have no options, I will exercise my option to swear at them. The standard "no ammo not in mags" rule is something which ordinary skirmishes could benefit from imo...

 

What do you have in mind, Richie?

[jcheeseright]

What puts me off milsim as per Tier 1 and Sterling, is the tabbing miles carrying your kit in a bergen. Realistic? Yes. Fun? No.

 

I also don't believe that realcap mags make for realistic skirmishing. A real gun shoots through stuff we use as cover and light gusts of air do not massively deflect shots, so it can take many more shots to get a hit at 50m than it would take with an assault rifle. Also people are not afraid of being killed in airsoft, so they are braver than they would be facing real ammunition - hence it takes more firepower to suppress them.

 

I would like to take part in a more immersive event than standard skirmishing and had I not earmarked my cash for NAE14 rather than your event, Baz, I would have given it a go. As it turned out I couldn't do NAE anyway because I was too unwell :'( are there still places (because I'm a lot better now, just unfit as f*ck!)?

 

Having said that, I'm not put off by 24hrs or more with no safe zone, digging a hole to sh*t in, the risk that i could be shot while sh*tting in a hole even I don't mind taking orders either, so long as whoever gives them understands that if they talk to me like I have no options, I will exercise my option to swear at them. The standard "no ammo not in mags" rule is something which ordinary skirmishes could benefit from imo...

 

What do you have in mind, Richie?

Have never had to carry all my shit in a Bergan or use real cap mags, mid caps yes, but no one's ever suggested real cap. :-) give it a go, it's a very different way to play.

[team flex]

may I ask, what is the age limit for these?

[Baz JJ]

Ian

 

We can always squeeze a few more into the rebels as it lends itself that way.

 

Team Flex, the mimimum age limit is not a problem, but two tone weapons arent allowed as its a milsim.

 

Re mags, we allow mid caps but no high caps. Ammo allowance is 600 rounds in mags on your person. The rebels, for example can cache more in their village or in hidden arms dumps

[Richie Boyle]

i dont have anything specific in mind Ian. i just thought i would throw a basic idea around and see if anyone would actually be interested in a longer session. as it turns out, there is one being planned as a result of this. i dont know the details but it will be going ahead in about a month and it will be along these lines ie sleeping out in the field. not exactly what i had in mind but different from the usual 9 - 5 airsoft days

[n1ckh]

I'm up for anything that simulates a military exercise and look forward to such things bringing back memories and skills, i hated carrying a Bergen but it had to be done, even going camping with my boys, I still carry the most in my Bergen, its what I'm used to as an ex infantry soldier

[Richie Boyle]

i have a problem there. being signals, we didnt do fieldcraft as individuals. i havent done that since basic training because we were more concerned with cam nets than cam cream. this is probably part of the reason i always get shot in airsoft

[n1ckh]

Haha bloody scaley backs, in the rear with the gear lol

 

We wouldn't have comms without you guys (my dad was a driver electrician with the signals for 25 years) so your as important as everybody else but I did some exercises with you guys and it made a nice slow pace, I also did the signals training to become qualified signsl man

 

We also had some of you guys who transfered over permanently

 

I joined the signals TA for a while after I left and some dozey little cow who'd been doing it for 5 minutes was telling me how to a job I used to do when we had an exercise, I politely told her to be quiet

[Richie Boyle]

my last troop OC was like that. some sproggy 2nd LT who thought he knew it all. it didnt take him long to lose the respect of the lads

[Ian_Gere]

There's a Russians vs NATO weekender in the planning stage amongst lads on RMAL-UK for next spring, which will be a milsim-ish stylee an ting so all comrades keep an eye out for news on that. Of course we will need ye MTP/MC wearing M4 carrying fascist running dogs to shoot at too, so if you dare, be there...

 

I'll give your thingy another read Baz - I cant even remember exactly when it is tbh and ive signed up for this S.T.A.L.K.E.R. game mid Oct and I may not be able to afford both even if they're not on the same wkend.

[Russe11]

Hmm. We have quite a few niche airsoft groups represented here. I do the WW2 games, we have some African Bush wars guys and the Russians. Maybe we should get some weird league going and have the Russians invade S. Africa one weekend and then invent time travel so we can see how the winner does against the combined axis and allied forces?

[Baz JJ]

Dont worry Ian, its a long way to travel without transport for a weekend.