question about two tone

[team flex]

I have a friend who has a two tone m4. Recently, he decided to spray paint it, and he is 14 btw, obviously no UKARA license. Would he get a warning or told off if he went to a skirmish with it? \i have seen videos where 14 year olds have black on black, however I'm not sure if it is allowed... thanks

[Longshot]

No such thing as a "UKARA license."

 

Painting a two tone and turning it into a RIF is not illegal for a 14 year old per se, but if he has done so without being someone who plays at a proper airsoft site then he has broken the law and has no defence against prosecution. More to the point: who's going to know?

 

In relation to him taking it to sites, theoretically nobody should even ask him why he has a RIF; it's not illegal for him to own it after all. But if someone does happen to ask and he tells them what he has done they might decide he is a dick. If it's someone who runs the site they might think that he's not only a dick but a liability, and then they may choose to not let him play, as is their right.

[team flex]

No such thing as a "UKARA license."

 

Painting a two tone and turning it into a RIF is not illegal for a 14 year old per se, but if he has done so without being someone who plays at a proper airsoft site then he has broken the law and has no defence against prosecution. More to the point: who's going to know?

 

In relation to him taking it to sites, theoretically nobody should even ask him why he has a RIF; it's not illegal for him to own it after all. But if someone does happen to ask and he tells them what he has done they might decide he is a dick. If it's someone who runs the site they might think that he's not only a dick but a liability, and then they may choose to not let him play, as is their right.

Ah i see and mb defence not licence. He just has too much time on his hands and likes his guns i guess... we will have to see what happens

[Longshot]

To be fair I imagine nothing will happen unless he takes it out and waves it around in public, thus proving the aforementioned dickness.

 

It's illegal to sell, import or manufacture a RIF. It's the latter that he's done, and it doesn't sound like he has any defence should the police wish to prosecute him for doing so. Again though, will they ever know or care?

[BrightCandle]

At my local site I am certain they would be asked how they got it. Some guys on their first game out got questioned about their Combat machines just this week gone. Turned out the marshall's hadn't spotted they were actually transparent so all was well but they do question that sort of thing.

 

I think it would be a good idea to tell your friends they have committed a criminal act that has a fines and potentially hefty jail time sentences associated with it. Taking these to skirmishes would not be a good idea. If the friends aren't likely to do anything as a responsible individual you need to explain the VCRA to the parents so something can be done.

[Longshot]

^ I see your thinking Bright, and it's certainly sensible advice, but surely if a kid went to your local site with a RIF and someone said "where did you get that RIF?" They could just say "my dad's mate who used to airsoft gave it to me."

[team flex]

To be fair I imagine nothing will happen unless he takes it out and waves it around in public, thus proving the aforementioned dickness.

 

It's illegal to sell, import or manufacture a RIF. It's the latter that he's done, and it doesn't sound like he has any defence should the police wish to prosecute him for doing so. Again though, will they ever know or care?

OK, sounds good

 

At my local site I am certain they would be asked how they got it. Some guys on their first game out got questioned about their Combat machines just this week gone. Turned out the marshall's hadn't spotted they were actually transparent so all was well but they do question that sort of thing.

 

I think it would be a good idea to tell your friends they have committed a criminal act that has a fines and potentially hefty jail time sentences associated with it. Taking these to skirmishes would not be a good idea. If the friends aren't likely to do anything as a responsible individual you need to explain the VCRA to the parents so something can be done.

will definitely tell him, thanks for the info

[BrightCandle]

I can't argue for the out of sight out mind way of looking at this problem, the answer has to be more honest than that IMO. People make these sorts of mistakes without understanding the law, letting it be by proposing the criminal lie about what has been done doesn't strike me as responsible adult advice. I suspect that all that needs doing is the two tone reapplied to the items, but they might be in the "speak to a lawyer" territory. We had a guy prosecuted just last week for painting a two tone gun, this is serious stuff.

[Longshot]

Again, I see your point, but if he resprays the thing into two tone that doesn't change the fact that he has already broken the law. The crime has been committed.

 

Also, the law is so vague that even if he did return it to two tone all he'd have to do to legitimately be able to legally spray it back into a RIF is to book an airsoft game, since it is a legal defence against prosecution for the manufacture of a RIF if you manufactured it for the purpose of playing airsoft at a site. This is just another reason why a site questioning someone over how they have a recently painted RIF makes no sense.

 

Gotta love the VCRA.

[team flex]

I can't argue for the out of sight out mind way of looking at this problem, the answer has to be more honest than that IMO. People make these sorts of mistakes without understanding the law, letting it be by proposing the criminal lie about what has been done doesn't strike me as responsible adult advice. I suspect that all that needs doing is the two tone reapplied to the items, but they might be in the "speak to a lawyer" territory. We had a guy prosecuted just last week for painting a two tone gun, this is serious stuff.

will tell him those exact words, will probably do nothing as he is ignorant, i guess he may have to learn the hard way :/

[team flex]

Again, I see your point, but if he resprays the thing into two tone that doesn't change the fact that he has already broken the law. The crime has been committed.

 

Also, the law is so vague that even if he did return it to two tone all he'd have to do to legitimately be able to legally spray it back into a RIF is to book an airsoft game, since it is a legal defence against prosecution for the manufacture of a RIF if you manufactured it for the purpose of playing airsoft at a site. This is just another reason why a site questioning someone over how they have a recently painted RIF makes no sense.

 

Gotta love the VCRA.

I think he will be ok because another friend plays there, and he got his dad to get the UKARA defence, and apparently the boy plays there some weekends with his m4, hopefully these people are quite relaxed about the law...

[two_zero]

respray it. crime has still been committed. but would it make a difference in a court? most certainly.

[two_zero]

hopefully these people are quite relaxed about the law...

PARDON??!

[Esoterick]

My local site offers camo tape for anyone using a two tone gun, but this came about after regulars essentially requested it. Doing this and then taking the tape off when you leave the site could work as a potential stopgap. It isn't necessarily the most elegant solution but it also isn't permanent, if that is a concern.

[Longshot]

Well wait, I take back what has been said; no crime has been committed.

 

If he has "played there some weekends" as you've said, and it is a legitimate airsoft site, then he is entitled to spray his two tone black and manufacture a RIF. He has a legal defence for doing so.

[two_zero]

ok, question, and I do not know the answer. Is there any minimum age on manufacturing a RIF - assuming the person have an otherwise valid defence?

[DX115FALCON]

No such thing as a "UKARA license."

 

Painting a two tone and turning it into a RIF is not illegal for a 14 year old per se, but if he has done so without being someone who plays at a proper airsoft site then he has broken the law and has no defence against prosecution. More to the point: who's going to know?

 

In relation to him taking it to sites, theoretically nobody should even ask him why he has a RIF; it's not illegal for him to own it after all. But if someone does happen to ask and he tells them what he has done they might decide he is a dick. If it's someone who runs the site they might think that he's not only a dick but a liability, and then they may choose to not let him play, as is their right.

 

 

You seem to say this a lot. Are you the Forum's official UKARA expert

[Longshot]

ok, question, and I do not know the answer. Is there any minimum age on manufacturing a RIF - assuming the person have an otherwise valid defence?

No, it's another one of those weird anomalies. You can't buy a RIF if you're under 18, and it's illegal to sell to someone who is under 18, but the law against importing and manufacturing is non age specific; it only explains what will count as a defence against prosecution for the crime (section 37 and commencement No 3).

[team flex]

respray it. crime has still been committed. but would it make a difference in a court? most certainly.

OK, will tell him to respray it.

 

PARDON??!

 

Yeah, what i meant was they won't question him, kinda came out wrong

My local site offers camo tape for anyone using a two tone gun, but this came about after regulars essentially requested it. Doing this and then taking the tape off when you leave the site could work as a potential stopgap. It isn't necessarily the most elegant solution but it also isn't permanent, if that is a concern.

 

Hmm will check with the tape

[CaptainSwoop]

At my local site I am certain they would be asked how they got it. Some guys on their first game out got questioned about their Combat machines just this week gone. Turned out the marshall's hadn't spotted they were actually transparent so all was well but they do question that sort of thing.

 

I think it would be a good idea to tell your friends they have committed a criminal act that has a fines and potentially hefty jail time sentences associated with it. Taking these to skirmishes would not be a good idea. If the friends aren't likely to do anything as a responsible individual you need to explain the VCRA to the parents so something can be done.

 

I hope they told the Marshall at the site o mind his own business, it's nothing to do with him where they got their gun.

[CaptainSwoop]

. Taking these to skirmishes would not be a good idea.

Why not? it's none of the sites business where they got them. They are not illegal to own or use at a site. If asked I would tell the site it's none of their concern.

[CaptainSwoop]

If your friend is skirmishing he has a defence. You don't need anything like a 'UKARA' to own a RIF, you don't need any kind of permit to respray one if you are skirmishing.

 

If he has sprayed it black he doesn't need to respray it to any other colour.

 

There is a some bad info being passed around in this thread.

 

A site shouldn't be asking you any questions about where or how you got your RIF. It's nothing to do with them.

 

If he has a defence he can spray his two tone any colour he wants.

 

.

[Longshot]

To be fair to them, most people were giving their advice in good faith and it took a while for the OP to mention that this 14 year old actually plays.

[team flex]

 

I hope they told the Marshall at the site o mind his own business, it's nothing to do with him where they got their gun.

 

Ok, so i'm guessing that they shouldn't question

Why not? it's none of the sites business where they got them. They are not illegal to own or use at a site. If asked I would tell the site it's none of their concern.

same as above i gues

 

If your friend is skirmishing he has a defence. You don't need anything like a 'UKARA' to own a RIF, you don't need any kind of permit to respray one if you are skirmishing.

 

If he has sprayed it black he doesn't need to respray it to any other colour.

 

There is a some bad info being passed around in this thread.

 

A site shouldn't be asking you any questions about where or how you got your RIF. It's nothing to do with them.

 

If he has a defence he can spray his two tone any colour he wants.

 

.

 

Ah, ok so e should be fine then?

To be fair to them, most people were giving their advice in good faith and it took a while for the OP to mention that this 14 year old actually plays.

sorry