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Am I allowed to own this gun?

Raxs_Slayer

By Raxs_Slayer,
in UK Law

This thread is over three months old. Please be sure that your post is appropriate as it will revive this otherwise old (and possibly forgotten) topic.

  

20 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you think I am allowed to Paint My Gun, Conditioned by my points?

    • Yes
      1
    • No
      18

  2. 2. Am i Allowed to purchase the gun shown, conditioned by my points?

    • Yes
      1
    • No
      18

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Raxs_Slayer Newbie

Raxs_Slayer

Posted
Posted

Hello,

 

I'm new to the forum and have a question that has been bugging me ever since I got into airsoft.

 

Obviously I am in the UK and some strict two-tone laws exist. I own a two-tone M-14 sniper however I'd like to paint over the orange paint with a camouflage pattern. I am 17 and technically my dad owns the gun, he is not a licences skirmisher and is not technically registered to own RIF's. (Realistic Imitation Firearms)

 

Upon painting my weapon I would not expose it to the public eye at all. There are 2 meter tall walls surrounding the garden, so no one could possibly sight the weapon. However I'm not fully aware of the details of RIF/tw-otone laws and how they look on camouflage weapons.

 

To finally get to the point, I'd like to ask: "Am i allowed to paint a camouflage on my gun as long as it is not exposed and kept on the property at all times?"

 

To get to a part 2, I have my eye on a very cheep, yet fun looking shotgun as shown below for a measly 22 dollars.

 

http://www.airsoftstation.com/m180c2-pump-action-airsoft-shotgun.html#.Uh3Rf9JzC2g

 

My same question applies. Having own this gun away from public eyes, would it be possible?

 

Much thanks to anyone that could answer my questions.

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Carrel Enthusiast

Carrel

Posted
Posted

Definite no to both sorry. You must skirmish regularly though if you even own a two tone. As soon as you hit 18 I assume you'll have done the required 3 skirmishes over the set time at a site. Then just register yourself for UKARA with the site. Honestly you have plenty of time for airsoft. especially if its not even a year until 18.

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ScoobySnacks Explorer

ScoobySnacks

Posted
Posted

Agreed Mike, the law says nothing about being over 18 to manufacture a RIF (which is what you'd be doing in the eyes of the law if you painted over the two tone with another colour, including camouflage. It matters not whether you are on private land, or if the gun is never seen.

 

A couple of points about your wording, just for clarity.

 

There is no "registration" to own, buy or do anything else with a RIF. UKARA is a RETAILERS scheme, that helps to give them a defence against prosecution under the VCRA for selling a RIF. It just helps to prove they have shown "due dilligence" in ascertaining that you are over 18 years of age, and are in one of the groups that there is a defence against prosecution for selling RIF's to.

 

There is no "licence" for skirmishing. Again people often refer to UKARA registration as "a licence". It isn't! It does not entitle you to anything in law, see above!

 

As a 17 year old, it is illegal to purchase a RIF. This means the shotty from abroad is a no no, unless your dad buys it in as two tone, and gives it to you (note you MUST NOT make any payment for the gun, whether it be cash, car washes, whatever), then you, being a regular skirmisher, can legally paint over it.

 

Of course, if you are NOT a regular skirmisher, then all bets are off and it's bright blue guns for you my lad!

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  • 1 month later...
Raxs_Slayer Newbie

Raxs_Slayer

Posted
  • Author
Posted

No to all of the above I'm afraid, you wouldn't even be able to import that shotgun. Get your dad to go to some skirmishes to get a defence or wait till you're 18- cant be too long :)

 

Ahh. But thanks a million anyway (: I guess it won't be too long before I'm 18 so until then i can wait. Thanks, this really helped!

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Raxs_Slayer Newbie

Raxs_Slayer

Posted
  • Author
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Agreed Mike, the law says nothing about being over 18 to manufacture a RIF (which is what you'd be doing in the eyes of the law if you painted over the two tone with another colour, including camouflage. It matters not whether you are on private land, or if the gun is never seen.

 

A couple of points about your wording, just for clarity.

 

There is no "registration" to own, buy or do anything else with a RIF. UKARA is a RETAILERS scheme, that helps to give them a defence against prosecution under the VCRA for selling a RIF. It just helps to prove they have shown "due dilligence" in ascertaining that you are over 18 years of age, and are in one of the groups that there is a defence against prosecution for selling RIF's to.

 

There is no "licence" for skirmishing. Again people often refer to UKARA registration as "a licence". It isn't! It does not entitle you to anything in law, see above!

 

As a 17 year old, it is illegal to purchase a RIF. This means the shotty from abroad is a no no, unless your dad buys it in as two tone, and gives it to you (note you MUST NOT make any payment for the gun, whether it be cash, car washes, whatever), then you, being a regular skirmisher, can legally paint over it.

 

Of course, if you are NOT a regular skirmisher, then all bets are off and it's bright blue guns for you my lad!

 

Ah, fantastic. Those are all the details i need! (: Thanks. This has definitely helped give me an insight on RIF laws.

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ScoobySnacks Explorer

ScoobySnacks

Posted
Posted

Chris, no offence but that's an irresponsible viewpoint. The risk of being caught doesn't come in to it. We live in a democracy, and are governed by the rules of said democracy. We don't get to decide which of the rules we have to follow. I might not agree with the rules, but I have to follow them. If the OP ever wants to hold real steel firearms then they need to learn that you have to follow the law, and be utterly squeaky clean, in order to do so. It's all well and good to say "what's the risk" but if plod turns up for something and finds that he has been manufacturing RIF's then it's going to mess up all sorts of stuff!

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Longshot Collaborator

Longshot

Posted
Posted

Manufacturing an RIF (Realistic Imitation Firearm) is illegal unless you have a valid defence. Ownership is irrelevant, it's the purchase of an IF without being 18 or a RIF without a valid defense is illegal

I'm afraid you're wrong.

 

Manufacturing a RIF is always illegal, even if you have a defence.

 

Buying a RIF if you are over 18 is never illegal.

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Mike636 Rising Star

Mike636

Posted
Posted

Manufacture, import and sale of realistic imitation firearms

 

36

(1)A person is guilty of an offence if

(a)he manufactures a realistic imitation firearm;

(b)he modifies an imitation firearm so that it becomes a realistic imitation firearm;

©he sells a realistic imitation firearm; or

(d)he brings a realistic imitation firearm into Great Britain or causes one to be brought into Great Britain.

(2)Subsection (1) has effect subject to the defences in section 37.

(3)The Secretary of State may by regulations

(a)provide for exceptions and exemptions from the offence under subsection (1); and

(b)provide for it to be a defence in proceedings for such an offence to show the matters specified or described in the regulations.

 

37

Specific defences applying to the offence under s. 36

 

(1)It shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under section 36 in respect of any conduct to show that the conduct was for the purpose only of making the imitation firearm in question available for one or more of the purposes specified in subsection (2).

(2)Those purposes are

(a)the purposes of a museum or gallery;

(b)the purposes of theatrical performances and of rehearsals for such performances;

©the production of films (within the meaning of Part 1 of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 (c. 48)_see section 5B of that Act);

(d)the production of television programmes (within the meaning of the Communications Act 2003 (c. 21)_see section 405(1) of that Act);

(e)the organisation and holding of historical re-enactments organised and held by persons specified or described for the purposes of this section by regulations made by the Secretary of State;

(f)the purposes of functions that a person has in his capacity as a person in the service of Her Majesty.

 

Please read this, especially section 36 (1) B which applies to repainting a two tone (IF) then read section 37 (1) and (2) E. Section 37 (2) E applies to airsofters . Though you are correct it's not illegal to buy a RIF. If someone is caught selling a RIF to a person without a defence it could be confiscated as evidence and no refund for the buyer

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Longshot Collaborator

Longshot

Posted
Posted

I did say I was going with a technicality (at least on the first count), so here goes:

 

My understanding of the legality is that a 'defence' is a 'defence against prosecution.' Manufacturing a RIF, converting an IF to a RIF, selling a RIF or importing a RIF is illegal (as outlined in the VCRA section 36). As it points out you are guilty of an offence if you do these things. However, despite the fact that you can always theoretically be arrested and charged for doing so, as you can for committing any offence, some people (those listed in the VCRA section 37 as well as some others - including airsofters - that were later added by the Secretary of State despite not actually being mentioned anywhere in the VCRA 2006) can break the law without opening themselves to prosecution for doing so after the fact. They have a defence against prosecution. This makes their actions 'de facto legal,' but not actually so, and is why nobody would arrest and charge you for doing these things if you can show a defence at the time, since arresting and charging you when there is not likely to be a prosecution is a waste of everyone's time. That doesn't mean you didn't do something illegal though.

 

In the second case there is no law whatsoever against buying a RIF if you are over 18 (though you may have specific restrictions placed against you by a court for different reasons). Since it is not illegal to buy a RIF, and since you could therefore never be prosecuted for doing so, a buyer needs no 'defence.' It is the seller that needs the defence (since they are the one breaking the law and opening themselves to potential prosecution). When buying a RIF, if a seller says to me: "do you have a defence?" a legal response would actually be: "I don't need one, I'm breaking no law; you need me to provide one for you." The worst that could happen to me as the buyer, as you point out, is that I lose my money, whereas the seller could potentially be receiving a prison sentence.

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ScoobySnacks Explorer

ScoobySnacks

Posted
Posted

Longshot is correct by my understanding.

 

It is ALWAYS an offence to sell, import or manufacture a RIF. If you are over 18 it is NEVER an offence to purchase one, or own one.

 

There are certain defences against prosecution for these offences, but they are still offences (otherwise you wouldn't need a defence)

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two_zero Veteran

two_zero

Posted
Posted

Agreed Mike, the law says nothing about being over 18 to manufacture a RIF (which is what you'd be doing in the eyes of the law if you painted over the two tone with another colour, including camouflage. It matters not whether you are on private land, or if the gun is never seen.

 

A couple of points about your wording, just for clarity.

 

There is no "registration" to own, buy or do anything else with a RIF. UKARA is a RETAILERS scheme, that helps to give them a defence against prosecution under the VCRA for selling a RIF. It just helps to prove they have shown "due dilligence" in ascertaining that you are over 18 years of age, and are in one of the groups that there is a defence against prosecution for selling RIF's to.

 

There is no "licence" for skirmishing. Again people often refer to UKARA registration as "a licence". It isn't! It does not entitle you to anything in law, see above!

 

As a 17 year old, it is illegal to purchase a RIF. This means the shotty from abroad is a no no, unless your dad buys it in as two tone, and gives it to you (note you MUST NOT make any payment for the gun, whether it be cash, car washes, whatever), then you, being a regular skirmisher, can legally paint over it.

 

Of course, if you are NOT a regular skirmisher, then all bets are off and it's bright blue guns for you my lad!

 

 

Great post, however I would just like to point out that am quite sure blue isn't a legal two tone colour, even thou it started off as being one.

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Longshot Collaborator

Longshot

Posted
Posted

Great post, however I would just like to point out that am quite sure blue isn't a legal two tone colour, even thou it started off as being one.

It is (well 'bright blue,' which is what Scooby said, is). Specific colours were not mentioned in the VCRA itself, but were clarified in a later commencement to the Act (which is where the 'airsoft skirmisher' defence is also explained). It can be found here:

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-violent-crime-reduction-act-2006-commencement-no-3-order-2007-firearms-measures

 

The colours listed are:

 

transparent

bright red

bright orange

bright blue

bright yellow

bright green

bright pink

bright purple

 

Though it goes on to state:

 

"An imitation firearm whose principal colour is not one of those listed in the regulations does not automatically fall to be regarded as realistic, although it is more likely that will be the case."

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