AirSniper
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Posts posted by AirSniper
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It is not illegal to go back yard plinking.
You do however, need to go around all your neighbours and explain what it is that they may hear or see and that its a piece of sports equipment that looks like a rifle.
ALWAYS shoot towards YOUR PROPERTY so that any damage is yours to fix at your leisure.
Your BB's must not have a path to or enter in to the public spaces outside your backyard space as it becomes a big legal issue if you were to hit someone or something and it got damaged ands you were seen,etc, then things get a bit legal.I wouldn't refer to it as target practice either, that implies something else, plinking is the proper term to use and I'd buy a few plinking toys to target practice with and a few catch boxes to catch your BB's in or you can make one easily, just pack it with old paper and bubble wrap and it be atleast 6 inches thick and the BB's won't go through the box, I use both a cardboard box and a couple of catch boxes for indoor practice.
If you go indoors, wear eye pros because BB's can come back at you with some force.
I'd also arm yourself with a copy of the relevant legislation as you never know, there may be that one or two neighbours that will disagree with you on the law and because they are closed minded and see everything as violence, will report you each time you are out, let them, that can be deemed as harassment to you for going about a hobby you are legally allowed to do on your own property in your back garden (the assumption that its all closed in) but note, if your garden is not enclosed by high fences, you won't be able to do any plinking until you put in higher fencing. -
Well anoter person I know through Airsoft, he is off with his misses and two kids with that seasonal novovirus, which fits what I had. https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/norovirus/ wasn't as bad as vomiting, I did feel sick all the time, had the squits for half a day, terrible headache, felt hot...
Got kids in school? Batten down the hatches as its going about. -
My son is an overweight player. Fact that he is the size of an adult but still not 16 yet, should give you an idea or in sizes, takes an adult size XL or in inches, around a 48 inch waste.
So not your average teen player, couple that with the fact that he is very self conscious of his size, in the game site he uses, there are other large players in the game.
Go at your pace, its not a race to win but to take part and have fun.
When I was at NAF21 this year, there were plenty of people there that were overweight, mostly dads with their sons.I play and I am not the fittest or slimmest of players either, so don't fret about anything, I bring in a defensive role, watching for rear end attacks.
Only advice I will give you is to make sure you have sturdy boots that are the military type boots, I twisted my ankle a couple of weeks back and glad I was wearing them as I could have easily broke my ankle.
I will suggest ONE item that no one ever is advised to get with any Eyepros... Anti-fog spray or wipes. -
Just spend the last couple of days feeling rather off colour.
Something not nice is creeping through the communities, I had and now my friend has it, just spoke to him, in a hurry.
You think it COVID but its not... Its some sort of head cold, it feels like your being smashed in the head with a hammer and your stomach and bowls are doing somersaults, you feel like you want to be sick.
So watch yourself guys. -
Seems that you can't make joke without getting a warning....
1. I was not selling a single thing.2. If you don't under stand the humor, ask.
3. You know who you are.
- Jedi_Master and Tackle
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SO... a 0.2g BB is a 3.08 grain BB
and a 0.4g BB is a 6.17 grain BB
Assuming that there is a fixed 0.8 Joule limit on the power of the RIF in this example, you will get the following results for the muzzle velocity.
From that you can calculate the range over time and the known act of gravity and air resistance and so on, get an accurate range and flight path.
On this Airgun site, the data about the RIF that a comment in a thread was referring to, this again, shows that the very same ballistics calculators work for airsoft as they will for live round shooters.
I have shown that to go faster you need a lighter BB, this speed affect the flight time because its is also a measure of distance over time, per second, so if you have a BB with a 4 second flight time before it drops out, its chrono was 200 fps, then you know its travelled 800 feet. or 243 meters.
If you could throw a stone through a chrono and time it, you would be able to work out the amount of KE you put in to that projectile. So I don't see why people are finding it hard to believe that the same math for ballistics applies no matter the scale or where you are.
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Magnus effect has little to do with this.
I am stating facts that THERMODYNAMICS and PHYSICS as rule here and the very same method that is used to chrono your airsoft RIF is the same method used in archery, airguns and real steel.I have provided enough examples of this reality but please live in denial all you like. Magnus effect or not, all bullets have spin even airgun pellets. So by that measure, you can negate that as a factor as it is common and just for simplicity sake. Axial or Pitch have the same effect on helping the projectile stay on target, what IT WON'T STOP is GRAVITY pulling on it OVER TIME which equals RANGE.
As for the feather hammer experiment, yes that is true but a bullet has a hot gas that is providing that thrust
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Some call it Butt Squeak.
Others lose their bottle.
I am very lucky to be breathing. Had I not got the depth and breadth of driving knowledge, I'd be a car wreck on the A1 right now and many of you may have been in the tailback if it had happened.
Lets just put this out there so that everyone who does it understands that the act of ...
BREAK CHECKINGIs now a criminal offence and punishable with up to two years in prison.
The situation that transpires on the A1 this morning could have not only put me but a friend in a couple of body bags had I not been proficient at driving and handling a vehicle.
Not only did this cretin push his way past me causing me to swerve back in to Lane 1 of the A1 but had to break because the vehicle I was overtaking was a lorry and I was about to hit it, the back end swung out and I had to counter it by throwing the front end in to lane 2, where Mr Richard Head (think of short name for Richard) decided to then break check me, needing further breaking to bring the car under some control. he speeds off doing at least 90 mph.Dashcam footage, check... Police, Check. They confirm that break checking is dangerous driving and this driver could have caused an accident that killed people. I had no idea who this guy was but its not the first time I have been mistaken for another driver as my car is very common as is its particular colour, so again, I am the victim of some ass hat and their instant justice.
I'd share the footage but the police want it as I think from what they said, I wasn't the only person to have been calling in the driver, the guys driving erratic for sure. So I think that they will be giving the idiot a tap on the shoulder.
I'd done nothing wrong, I'd indicated my intentions, committed to a manoeuvre, had ensures I had the space and the speed and was clear to continue and followed the protocol you follow when over taking on a dual carriage way.
This is how erratic he was, the single track road that is a major A road that passes a UK HQ of a company that is well known on the high streets is a single lane track, Mr Head, our Ritchy decides he wants to try and pass the lorry carrying the car its transporting. like he is 7ft wide, 3ft gap, was never going to happen.The only reason he is being reported is because his actions were intentional and could have killed me and my friend and others.
So remember. Don't get yourselves put in prison for doing something as stupid as break checking people, even if they are in the wrong for doing something that upset you, its you that could end up with the harder lesson. -
I'm just waiting for the day that sites have to use Joules and not fps, you are going to hear a hell of a lot of arguments and "Buts its only xyz FPS" with the response "Sorry mate, you can't use it on site as its too hot..."
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3 hours ago, ImTriggerHappy said:
Because you are looking at it too narrowly.
Your results are based on a chrono which is a couple of inches from the end of the barrel. A bb is very light and that low mass is hugely affected by air resistance.
All this has been done and proved ages ago and it was proved that a heavier bb bleeds off energy at a slower rate and after about 30ft if everything is set properly the heavier bb is equal to the lighter bb and after that is usually travelling faster.
Set your chrono about 35ft away and then test but make sure you use a real one not some £40 hobbyist one.
But thats where all balllistics calculations start, the MUZZLE VELOCITY... You have to know how fast it left the barrel to get the rate of velocity, which is calculated over time, because to get that velocity, the chrono takes two reading entry and exit and then your FPS and Joules pops up.
From that you can use that information to then calculate the range you get or there about.Range / Distance is just a function of air resistance, time and gravity for this.
The same laws of physics and thermodynamics applies to all objects that are thrown with a force that imparts energy on them... as I have demonstrated time and time again that the same rules apply no matter what the scale you are at or where you are in the universe.
If things didn't work like that, we would have broken the light speed in air with craft able to warp time and space and the laws of physics.... We don't do we, have that ability and why? Thermodynamics.
Lets agree that something heavier is harder to throw and lets say you had your throw limited in energy, now a heavy rock is going to fall in front of you, a light stone will travel far... why? Mass. What are BB's ? they're little balls of mass.It doesn't matter which way people try to wrangle this, you are ignoring the facts of physics and thermodynamics, the two things that rule your life our existence and the way the universe works. They know this because when they went to the moon, they had pistols, why? Not for taking out space aliens but if they were in deep do-do, they could use the pistols and the recoil from them to lift off and get out of things like crater if they fell in to one. How would they know this would work?
BALLISTICS.
I learnt that one from school when a condensed version of the NASA entry test had been made available, its an aptitude test where you have an inventory and you have to order things in a list of priority. We failed that exercise in thinking outside the box but it was fun, the one thing that stuck out for me was the reason for pistols sin space.
Again, examples of how energy operates, even in space, on the moon and so on. -
Here is some early data from a quick chrono test.
If you plug in the data in to the Zero one calculator and do the convertion, you see that variances exist and its pretty close to the change you expect with higher withg BB's on a fixed power input that affects the velocity.
Thus showing that you want to speed up your BB's you have to go light weight.
The video demonstrates (for the umpteenth time) that the fixed point is the slug weight and the variables were the pressure input of power in joules and the resulting FPS.
Which as demonstrated, the sweet spot was 3700 ish PSI (from memory) which if you calculate it is 4880.8799 Joules that was put in to generating the higher velocity than the higher psi of 4500psi or lower psi than the sweet spot.It demonstrates the same thing with BB only your fixed source is your power rating in Joules.
Do you not recall how you moved equations around in school to work out things from a couple of known elements, only the data you have needed the equation changing to fit your needs, like V = I/R in electrical engineering, you can find Amps ( I ) from the Voltage and the load resistance in watts. It similar process, you move the element until the desired parts are the answer.
I have suggested people play with the Zero One calculator as it shows exactly what I am saying and I don't understand why people don't get this fact, its based in real life physics.Same pistol, same Joules, different BB weights.
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No its not, its thsame conversation but the data you get depends on where you start.
Back to the beginning...
The op of another thread was complaining that his 200fps on a 0.8 joule rif with a 0.4g BB was not giving them the speed that they wanted.The reality was that a 0.4g BB on an 0.8 Joule rif is 207 feet per second, allow for variance, they were already there...
Then the conversation went off on a tangent with ballistics in this thread because it was an attempt to demonstrate the relationship of BB weight to FPS from a fixed energy input, which shows exactly waht I am trying to rteiterate time and time again...
You can not get out more energy than you put in, there are only losses, these can be sound, heat, light, velocity and energy depending on what you do.
As the Joules is fixed, you have to decide where you want your joules to go, do you want velocity so you get the distance in the shortest time, hit your mark and bugger the energy dump
ORrun with heavier BB's to run slower FPS and longer flight time but hit your mark and dump the energy in the BB in to the target.
Only way you are really going to get down with this is to get a chrono, different weight BB's, start throwing them and chronoing the speeds and record the joules and fps per BB weight.
I did just that with some pistols and I will be repeating the experiment again but in a more controlled environment wherte I can record things like humidity, temperature, gas type, etc and chart it in a spread sheet and then I plan on posting it here as its pretty interesting to see how fps and joules vary from the BB weight.
Early data, my M&P 9 does better on 0.25 and 0.3g BB's than 0.2g or 0.28g, which was surprising. The M92F favours 0.28g than anything else.
So each weapon, cannon or airsoft RIF will have its own characteristics and losses, these are the things that I believe people are chasing because they see the figures on the tin and expect that to be the minimum. Unfortunately, reality is ae a box of surprises and disappointments as shown here. -
Spin improves the BB's flight and yes, there is a cost involved because that spin has to cost energy as it was also imparted after the original energy has been put in to it.
You would have to shoot in the same barrel but with a hopperless and a hoped up version of the barrel to see the effect of the spin on energy and its power.
You would chrono those two to get your data and see the effect of the hop up unit in action.
For this exercise, its been simplified to ball park figures. If you want to get technical and use all the variables, I did post a link to a very comprehensive calculator that would calculate if you could hit a target by adapting your rifle aim method like the aim angle, are you hold over or hold under to hit the target?
If you were high enough up, you would see the effect more readily than a firearms shooter, the direction you shoot in also affects the projectiles distance and trajectory, eg, shooting east, bullets drop earlier than shooting west, all due to the spin of the earth, shooting north or south introduces drift. Add in wind, humidity, elevation and your distance to target and you can work out if the bullet or projectile you use will get there.There are so many variable that even the thermal build up in the projectile from the resistance (friction) of air that it too can affect the trajectory.
Also, how the projectile left the muzzel, is is true and straight or has it yaw spin or pitch roll or tumbling?How far do you want to go. I am keeping it simple as that is all that is needed.
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One final one, this shows that a 0.2 g BB that is swapped for a 0.4g BB has this effect on the FPS, losing about 86 feet per second in velocity.
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Just now, Adolf Hamster said:
i'm starting to think there are 2 very different conversations going on here........
Three actually.
One fixed and two vary depending on your use of that input
If your input is fixed weight BB then your fps will depend on the joules input, I think this is what people are getting hung up on.
If your input is fixed velocity then your Joules output is affected by the BB weight
If your input is fixed Joules then your Velocity is affected by the BB weight
This is why it helps to see things like the diagrams as it shows where your power / energy is going to or what is sapping it.
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Here, play with this and see how the relationship of BB weight and joules energy affects your FPS.
https://www.zerooneairsoft.com/airsoft_fps_calculator
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Ok, how about this?
Fact - Your Joules is fixed.
Your variables are BB weight or Velocity.
So where are your joules going?
Simple, if you want speed, you put your Joules in to velocity by lowering BB weight.. Tadah!Likewise, you want your joules in the BB, then you lower your velocity.
You can not defy the laws of physics, even if you pump more joules in to the system, you are never ever in an eternity going to get more out than you put in... Scientific fact, anyone who has done physics or a science that relied on energy input to follow on a process, your only concern is not the input energy but where it's going.
So think of Joules as a fluid that flows to what you want to do, there is a trade off and that is you sacrifice something.
Ballistics even works in space of all places as there is still gravity in space, although not as strong as being stood on a planet, the gravity affect the projectiles, if gravity wasn't a factor then the Apollo missions would be floating off in to deep space with corpses in the capsules... because ballistics and trajectories and gravity count, you had things like the velocity of craft, doing what, about the speed of bullet, the weight of the craft and then sling shot around the moon. Approach too fast or on the wrong course, your done for...
The same rules apply to you in your car when driving, you hit something, were do you thing that energy goes?
This is something so fundamental that you are affected by it just by standing on this rock and anything that is thrown about on it.
So, where do you want your joules to end up? In velocity or Energy delivery in the BB? -
No, Less speed on a heavier BB at the rated joules. that is what you sacrifice when you go heavier.
You want faster, then put in a lower weight BB.I have pointed out that the calculations are a balancing act.
The slower moving BB at the rated joules on that weight BB will result in a bigger delivery of energy as the heavier BB can retain its energy longer and deliver it more efficiently moving slower than a faster moving BB that won't be as effective of delivering its energy.
If you stood at a distance and lit up a target which would record your impacts from the BB's and worked your way from 0.2g to 0.4g, at some point you will see a sweet spot where the joules of the pistol or gun deliver the energy efficently as the FPS will be at that peak.
Key elements have been discussed and shown in effect in the helium gun, same principles, his demo showed that higher pressure was not as effective as lower pressure and that in terms equates to joules of energy, as his fixed point was the grain weight of his projectile, what was being moved around was the Joules.
OR... in pictorial terms, this was his equation, its still the same equation but the results are different as the measure is on the Joules energy and feet per second.an over simplification as there is a "Bell Curve" to this type of maximising equation as it then swings back to slower after a peak.
Its peak being when the J and FPS are balanced.
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Again, deformation is irrelevant at this scale, were talking about energy being imparted and what it will deliver.
Point again is to demonstrate that ballistics calculations still are valid, maybe not as accurate but the fact that BB's are weighted and gravity exists as well as that pest we call time, you have then got a ballistics trajectory or its path of travel through its arc of travel.
I don't see why people are having such a hard time getting used to the idea that the relationship to energy delivery is the same no matter what scale you use.
Increase the joules as in move to air weapons levels, the same rules apply, they apply to everything that can throw or make a projectile move, including throwing rocks... earliest example of the relationship man found between throwing a stone hard and hard enough to polax an animal to subdue it or kill it.
Its all around you and yes, even when I was training to be an FLT (among many thing) the relationship of KE to the mass being carried, forces in motion, etc, all part of the same thermodynamics that we are governed by, showed how if you were stupid, you ended up being flattened by a 4,000 lb battery if you tipped the truck over because of excessive speed.The same rules apply to airplanes that crash, they know what sort of foot print to look at when they know things like angle of attack, speed, weight of craft including passengers and so on, can work out if its going to be recoverable as there have been some ballistic speed air crashes where there was nothing left but a scar and nothing could be recovered.
So the relationship of energy, weight and speed is a like a holy trinity, you can't break it, you can't escape it, well with enough velocity to leave this planets surface you can... but thats another story.
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12 minutes ago, Tactical Pith Helmet said:
That's top work from your lad. The 57 is not known as the most accurate HW, much as I personally have a soft spot for them.
Surprised at the dryness of the stock, and the amount of oil it's taken. Bet it's a belter when done!
Its nearly there, it has taken a whole bottle of English Walnut Oil Preparation, the coat I just applied is taking a lot longer to soak in, so its near saturation point and its starting to get a nice sheen from my hand lapping.
I managed to take photos after each application and will pick several to merge to show the colour depth change and the grain starting to show more character. -
7 hours ago, Tommikka said:
Airsoft physics will be close to musketry
Still, ballistics rules apply as they are real world physical elements that affect the BB, gravity being one of them.
It scales, that is it... I posted this in another comment about someone moaning about the joules and fps they were getting with a heavy BB, so after several posts trying to reiterate the point of physics and thermodynamics.
What I did was distil it down to this, a diagram that illustrates the actuality of what is going on with all projectiles fired out of a barrel.
The Joules of the weapon is fixed, why it is the fulcrum or balance point.
Want faster FPS, then lower your g weight of the BB's
It can't get any more simpler than that.6 hours ago, EDcase said:I don't think the video has any relevance to BB ballistics.
It does though.
It scales, it has to as its the same laws of thermodynamics you are bound by.You use the algorithm for Joules to fps when you play airsoft to chrono your RIFs and you are using the very same ballistics calculations that real steel uses.
It scales, thats the thing, your airsoft is bound by the same laws of physics and ballistics as any other weapon that throws a projectile, gun, bow and arrow, catapult, sling shot, blow pipe... Airsoft RIF's... It is all the same, a projectile, energy and the elevation determine the distance and flight time and the power delivery from the power source that imparted energy on that projectile. -
Here is what I am trying to make clear, the relationship of Joules to Velocity from BB weight.
You want more velocity then you have no option but to lower your BB weight.
If you swap out a spring, then your taking the RIF above its rated Joules output for no good reason other than to break it. Things are made to a stress point, even in airguns, like my sons HW57 that had a failure in the piston because of dieseling detonation on firing took the spring past its tolerance for compression and no longer produces the 11.9 ftlbs but only 8ft lbs.Same rules apply in airguns, you want a slower speed and more joule delivery, go for heavier grain weights.
This posted image is the simplest way I could demonstrate what I am trying to put in to words.
It will also help those I hear uttering that "I don't know owt about this joules business..." and why it is important. -
9 hours ago, Samurai said:
Airsoft BBs have backspin that greatly affect the trajectory.
Most of them at least. There's an indoor sniping thing in Japan where they have very precisely built rifles with no hopup to shoot coin sized targets in close, 10-20m ranges. No hopup because that makes them less accurate.
We are not talking implicitly about Trajectory, its the fact that the fundamental laws of thermodynamics is being challenged here.
Ballistics is a field like any known science in mathematics that describes our world, based on empiric evidence and recorded data.
The OP is niggling over the difference between 200 fps and 207 fps which if you use the Joules calculator, shows that its nearly there at max power. As for the range, that is where you resort to ballistics calculators that can work that out based on what you put in, things like elevation, direction of shooting if a really tech site as earth spin still on Airsoft levels affect the BB, you see it in action, its called gravity.
There are some fundamentals in our world that you can not get around or break the rules of, it is impossible, like the race to max out the joules... the BB only carries the energy that was imparted on it (simple world view for this demo) and can not gain any energy but lose it over time and that equates to distance.
Seriously, give the Ballistics calcs a go and it may help land you in the ball park area you are aiming for or at the least, tell you if you are under or over powered. Incidentally, the calcs you use for this in every airsoft game, are used in real steel.
So they scale with the size and powers involve, thermodynamics baby...
When I did it in physics at uni in my foundation year, its a heavy subject and one that can make your head go pop if you're not paying attention. The take away I got from it was simply that rule, you can not extract more energy from something that has energy to give up. So you can't make a 0.4g BB go faster on a set joules output, you will see a big difference with different BB weights as its like airgun shooting or live rounds, same rules, divergent weight projectiles and again, ballistics rules the day.
So any talk on accuracy deviations from hop ups, really are not an issue here, its all about the joules, BB weights and how you shoot, you can then consider other factors when you determine that you are shoot correctly.
You wouldn't believe the numbers of players that hold pistols gangsta thuglife style, apply pitch to rifles and so on, all these moves affect things like accuracy and range. Unless you know how to hold a rifle, cheek it properly and get to know your RIF without sights, I play without using sites and I can hit spinner targets and people with accuracy, if you haven't seen my airgun target shooting... gives you an idea on how you can be accurate and hone your skill to use in game play.
Suggestion to Mr Dad is to study up on ballistics theory and watch a few real steel shooters, there is a lady shooter, Kirsten Weiss, look her up, an excellent shot and skilled lady. She talks about proper gun use, it may help you iron out any possible wrinkles you are inadvertently introducing. I have been there myself, so it pays to listen to some other advice on improving shooting skills, I only became aware of something I was doing that shouldn't have been doing as it did affect my shooting and that is too many people do put too much pitch in their hold on a rifle.
In airsoft, I see plenty of people set up and "Chinning" their stocks, why? That really affect accuracy... cheek it properly and your accuracy goes up exponentially.
Not trying to preach here but rather help in drawing attention to things that many players dismiss, don't know if its myth or folk law but I hear stuff that makes me chuckle. As for the hop ups and RIF's in general, I am on the back foot here in terms of hop ups and things like that, what I am not on the back foot with is ballistics and shooting in general.Here she is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YnQVS_HdrI
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LOL, yeah I'd concerned too...
However, the same laws of physics and thermodynamics applies to airsoft as it does to airguns and real steel.The laws of thermodynamics can't be broken, you can not get more energy out of an item that you have input.
Likewise, input too much energy and its just wasted energy as the projectile is unable to dump its energy, you know BB's that really hurt... thats effective power from the output and BB weight.
Ballistics works no mater the scale, so a 0.2g BB with too much fps is not as effective as one that is lower with the right BB weight, this is where joule creep comes in.
Program an Perun ETU++
in General Help
Posted · Edited by AirSniper
I grabbed a couple of ETU++'s a couple of weeks back.
Just got the screwdriver today to install them.
Programming, at a total loss, I have no idea in what you do, so far semi-auto is now full auto, full auto hasn't been touched and the setting is the only one that seems to work.
I see the coloured LED, green, it then flashes blue when I set that first option, then nothing.
Do I have to keep flipping the switch from semi to full auto or something? as pulling the rigger only sets the first option..
I haven't tried the second one yet/
Also, watching youtuber who have fitted, again, no idea as they ramble on and then race through bits and important bits say bugger all. I am in the dark.
Anyone got the secret ingredient on how to?