Armo1000 Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 Been getting a bit more into GBB lately, and only really just discovered that the silicone in most airsoft gas is terrible for your guns long term, and all you need to do is a bit of greasing every now and then on the internals instead. Problem is i cant seem to find any non silicone "dry" gas in the UK. Abbey is the only one i can see which doesn't use silicone, but they still put some lubricant in it. People seem conflicted on weather ASG is dry or not, and others say its terrible gas anyway. Swiss Arms 130 seems like the best option but this doesn't seem to be available anywhere in the UK. Other option is just to use pure propane with an adaptor, but I'm not too sure about that. Thoughts on this please, as I'm feeling a bit lost. Used Nuprol gas for years and never gave it a second thought, but this has opened up a can of worms in my head lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavinkempsell Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 I asked the same question recently & the recommendation I got was Ultrair Duff Beer, JinxDuh and Armo1000 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sewdhull Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Asg ultrair can be with or without silicone. I'm unsure how a gas can be better or worse than another, the mixtures all work the same way, a propane/butane mix will be indistinguishable from can to can esp if there's no silicone. If you find a pressure that works for you then that's the best. ASG usefully are upfront about pressure, formulation and temp range. Armo1000, Cannonfodder and Tactical Pith Helmet 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EDcase Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 (edited) 2 hours ago, Armo1000 said: ...and only really just discovered that the silicone in most airsoft gas is terrible for your guns long term... Where did you hear that? I'm not an expert but I believe its the OPPOSITE. (I do have 18 GBBP's and 6 GBBR's which have zero issues using Ultrair) Gas guns NEED to have the oil in the gas to protect the seals in the magazines. (That's why all airsoft gas has some silicone oil mixed in) You just clean the barrel and hop rubber after heavy use. Use Isopropyl Alcohol on a strip of cloth with the cleaning rod. DON'T go into the hop rubber. Use a Q-Tip with a drop of Isopropyl for the hop rubber. Dry gas such as Propane needs silicone adding to it because its not meant for airsoft and without added oil the mag seals will dry up resulting in leaks and needing replacements... The only reason some people use Propane is because its cheaper than green gas. The airsoft fill adaptors have a port to add the silicone oil. Edited February 20 by EDcase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armo1000 Posted February 20 Author Share Posted February 20 12 minutes ago, EDcase said: Where did you hear that? General consensus I'm seeing is that its bad. Spraying silicone all over the working parts of the gun, and most notably on the hop up and barrel assembly, is unwise, and will affect performance. Especially when all it takes is a quick grease on the parts that need it and you are good to go. Fyi the more reading i do the more i see how bad silicone oil in general is compared to grease. Watch this from 03:07 in for more on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EDcase Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 He's talking about internal moving parts NOT magazine gas... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armo1000 Posted February 20 Author Share Posted February 20 4 minutes ago, EDcase said: He's talking about internal moving parts NOT magazine gas... Watch from 7:30 for why dry gas is better than silicone gas. The ultimate point is all the same, regardless of where it’s used, silicone is bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sewdhull Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 You can choose to separately lube magazines to maintain the seals. Gas has 3 to 5% oil in it, but if you are cleaning your gun then I'm unsure what the effect would be. I suppose vapourised oil can get on the hop and that oil applied directly to the rubber bits would have a better chance of staying there. Armo1000 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armo1000 Posted February 20 Author Share Posted February 20 10 minutes ago, Sewdhull said: You can choose to separately lube magazines to maintain the seals. Exactly. And it really makes sense the more you think about it. Venting gas oil, all over the parts of your gun which don’t need it just seems stupid, when you can specifically lubricate/maintain the parts which do, and leave the gas just as a clean, dry, propellant. Enid_Puceflange 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sewdhull Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Having said that I don't use oil on anything air soft. In regard to o rings in and around magazines it's likely temperature and time is more an issue than lubrication in thier failure... I haven't seen any testing done or evidence of hop fouling by silicone oil tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EDcase Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 I know his channel and usually agree with what he says... but not this time. I'd rather clean the barrel and hop once in a while than take all the valves out of my mags to oil them separately. Its your choice of course 😉 Herr Eagle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sewdhull Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Im not convinced there is a purpose to lubricating an o ring that doesn't move against another surface other than during installation. Sliding surfaces certainly. If an o ring presses against a surface it's the o rings job to seal, like in mag valves perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EDcase Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 The most common cause of leaks is the O-rings rubber drying out which makes them loose elasticity and shrink. If you've ever repaired a leaky magazine assuming the o-ring hasn't been damaged, applying some oil or grease will often fix the problem. DanBow 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanBow Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 4 hours ago, EDcase said: If you've ever repaired a leaky magazine assuming the o-ring hasn't been damaged, applying some oil or grease will often fix the problem. Yep, one of my pistol mags was leaking from the base O ring. Stripped and soaked in oil for an hour or so sorted it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirinjawbro Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 how easy is this to do? i have a cybergun DE mag that's not been used for a while. has been gassed but now leaks empty 1 minute ago, DanBow said: Yep, one of my pistol mags was leaking from the base O ring. Stripped and soaked in oil for an hour or so sorted it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanBow Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 7 minutes ago, mirinjawbro said: how easy is this to do I dont know about your particular mag but mine had one screw in the bottom that when removed allows the bottom part to come away from the main body. Once its in two pieces you can see the O ring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armo1000 Posted February 20 Author Share Posted February 20 56 minutes ago, mirinjawbro said: how easy is this to do? Watch the full vid above for gas mag maintenance. It’s pretty simple once you know what to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sewdhull Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Why do you think o rings dry out? Perhaps it depends on the o ring type, but I don't think any o rings have oils etc recommended to moisten thier insides. Rubber doesn't like propane, nitrile and viton are the choices. I'd presume modern magazines use nitrile o rings. Orings shouldn't absorb anything, they need to resist chemical attack stop any gas or fluid getting past them. Very cold o rings may get damaged as they lose elasticity which I'd suggest is what the valve o rings experience. You can fill the gaps in seated worn o rings using an oil or grease to get them to seal again, clean them or reseat them to get them to seal again but they don't dry out. If they appear that way they are ready for replacement. The surfaces wear and don't seal properly on moving o rings like valves for example. O rings do degrade over time, rubber is particularly vulnerable to this, but we should be using nitrile o rings yes? Wetting the oring is a temporary fix until the wetting agent has gone, altho the lubed o ring may have seated itself better than before. https://www.marcorubber.com/o-ring-failure.htm https://www.engineerlive.com/content/why-do-o-rings-fail DanBow and Armo1000 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EDcase Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 I'm just going by a few years experience. You do what you want but you won't convince me 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sewdhull Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 1 hour ago, DanBow said: Yep, one of my pistol mags was leaking from the base O ring. Stripped and soaked in oil for an hour or so sorted it. Simply lubricating cleaning and allowing the o ring to expand free from compression may well have done the job. I've done the same in my mags, cleaning an old oring does work of it's still on ok condition. DanBow 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armo1000 Posted February 20 Author Share Posted February 20 4 minutes ago, Sewdhull said: Why do you think o rings dry out? Agreed. This seems to be a common misconception, that o rings expand upon greasing/oiling, when in reality all that is doing is filling the gaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sewdhull Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Just now, EDcase said: I'm just going by a few years experience. You do what you want but you won't convince me 😉 Haha, well this is Airsoft after all. 4 minutes ago, Armo1000 said: Agreed. This seems to be a common misconception, that o rings expand upon greasing/oiling, when in reality all that is doing is filling the gaps. They can expand ofcourse, but that's with incompatible materials. Silicon o rings and silicon oil for example. I put something on a co2 mag o ring that made it swell 3 or 4 times it's size. No idea what the ring was made of, rubber probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EDcase Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 (edited) Yep, each to their own 😁 I only have 8 years experience but I've fixed a few leaking mags which either arrived leaking from new or second hand. Can't think of any I've had that started leaking (Except a Co2 mag which I hate) 10 hours ago, Armo1000 said: Other option is just to use pure propane with an adaptor, but I'm not too sure about that. Thoughts on this please, as I'm feeling a bit lost. Used Nuprol gas for years and never gave it a second thought, but this has opened up a can of worms in my head lol. You seem pretty convinced to me so to answer your question, you'll be wanting Propane. Its Dry and cheap 😉 Edited February 20 by EDcase Armo1000 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sewdhull Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 (edited) 11 minutes ago, EDcase said: Yep, each to their own. I only have 8 years experience but I've fixed a few leaking mags which either arrived leaking from new or second hand. Can't think of any I've had that started leaking (Except a Co2 mag which I hate) I've an old ksc mag, 20 years old I'd say, it's leaked but a clean and lube and it's good to go again It doesn't matter what you do so long as things work again. Edited February 20 by Sewdhull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanBow Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 10 hours ago, Armo1000 said: Thoughts on this please, as I'm feeling a bit lost. Used Nuprol gas for years and never gave it a second thought, but this has opened up a can of worms in my head lol. Or . . . . . if it ain't broke, don't fix it! Carry on doing what you've been doing. Enid_Puceflange and Sewdhull 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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