35k Brushless motor in a Double Eagle M904G

[Nuchie]

I was thinking about upgrading the motor on my M904G to a Warhead Base 35k. I've noticed that the current, stock motor is getting hot quite quickly. I have never upgraded any airsoft gun before so I would love some help. Is there anything else I need to upgrade to make this work? Please let me know your thoughts! 

[strykerles]

Just changing the motor out will increase your trigger response and ROF

 

It should work fine but for how long is another question, the M90 series is quite popular on here so there will be others that can give you more information.

 

One I know of is @RostokMcSpoons he sleeps with his he loves it that much 😜

[Pseudotectonic]

35k might actually be too high speed if you want to keep RPS lowish for ammo/battery conservation or realistic ROF reasons.

Any speed Warhead will have the torque (therefore trigger response) and efficiency (less heat). So all things being equal, you actually just want to pick the Warhead speed based on the RPS you are trying to achieve.

It also depends on which battery you are using. I guess you can use this video as reference:
 

From the video the 35k Warhead doesn't seem to increase ROF as much as it suggests from 27k at 11.1v so you might want to pick the 27k for better efficiency if you are using 11.1v.

[RostokMcSpoons]

2 hours ago, strykerles said:

One I know of is @RostokMcSpoons he sleeps with his he loves it that much 

 

 

Hah!  I'll have you know I do NOT sleep with my M906C, I sleep with my recently acquired Cyma M14, as an homage to Kubrick's FMJ!

 

And so I can do the Rifleman's Creed properly.

 

So there!

 

I must admit the last time I had a plinking session with mine the motor temp got quite toasty too.  Maybe it's because I'm usually running around with gloves on, firing short bursts in a more tactical way, that I hadn't noticed it before.   So maybe it always been prone to that.. or maybe something is out of whack?

 

I'm using an 11.1v battery which is against the recommendation of course.

 

I'll be interested to hear how you get on with your motor change!

[Fatboy40]

Didn't we already cover this on Reddit a few days ago?...

 

https://old.reddit.com/r/airsoft/comments/xrd8iq/warhead_motor_on_stock_m904g_double_eagle/

[Nuchie]

3 minutes ago, Fatboy40 said:

Didn't we already cover this on Reddit a few days ago?...

 

https://old.reddit.com/r/airsoft/comments/xrd8iq/warhead_motor_on_stock_m904g_double_eagle/

Was looking for some other perspectives on the subject. Have gotten many different answers. 

[Fatboy40]

What i_need_help57 said on Reddit is probably the most accurate reply to you so far, in that a motor that powerful will probably give you more negatives than positives in what in all honesty is a rifle made to a cheap price point (the gears, piston, ETU / controller).

 

The stock Chaoli branded motors are undoubtedly dirt cheap and using ferrite magnets, so really inefficient and we've absolutely no idea who many turns there are on them. Even the Warhead Base models are quite expensive, and have will have huge amounts of torque compared to the stock Chaoli, so maybe start with a...

 

https://www.ak2m4.co.uk/internal-parts/motors-parts/shs-high-torque-motor-16tpa-long

 

... and ask @ak2m4 for some advice? 👍

Edited October 2, 2022 by Fatboy40

[Pseudotectonic]

16 TPA is not really high torque, for similar amount of money you can get a 28 TPA motor from aliexpress for about £32 shipped. There is also a 32 TPA £55 shipped. These will give you good efficiency and trigger response but low ROF. The 16 TPA will probably give you meh results.

In my opinion brushless is actually a good upgrade for stock because it is relatively foolproof. It will not have cause torque/heat/amp issues, and no sparking issues so you can skip the mosfet. You don't need to worry about balancing torque and RPM like brushed motors so there is little possibility of mistake.

The only downside is it may be too fast and gets you into PME territory (which is unlikely with stock gears). And may have compatibility issues with some mosfet/ETU (can't use active breaking etc) so that is a whole new area of problems. But for stock it is a rather good upgrade. Will probably feel a bit like switching from HDD to SSD and you won't have any money left for other upgrades, but you probably won't need them by now 🤪

[RostokMcSpoons]

The Warheads are £85+ aren't they?  I'll be better off spending that money on fixing my other guns... so I'll leave mine alone - having a toasty motor will save me a few quid on those chemical hand-warmers through the winter

[Nuchie]

4 hours ago, Fatboy40 said:

What i_need_help57 said on Reddit is probably the most accurate reply to you so far, in that a motor that powerful will probably give you more negatives than positives in what in all honesty is a rifle made to a cheap price point (the gears, piston, ETU / controller).

 

The stock Chaoli branded motors are undoubtedly dirt cheap and using ferrite magnets, so really inefficient and we've absolutely no idea who many turns there are on them. Even the Warhead Base models are quite expensive, and have will have huge amounts of torque compared to the stock Chaoli, so maybe start with a...

 

https://www.ak2m4.co.uk/internal-parts/motors-parts/shs-high-torque-motor-16tpa-long

 

... and ask @ak2m4 for some advice? 👍

Cool! Have you done any upgrade to your De M90?

[Stevobeavo]

I've put ZCI Barrels, ZCI hop up units and maple leaf bucking in all my DE guns. They shot great now. 

 

As for the motor can't say I feel like it's lacking. ROF I think is pretty good on a 11.1v . I personally don't see the need to fire 25+ BBS a second. 

 

[Nuchie]

17 hours ago, Stevobeavo said:

I've put ZCI Barrels, ZCI hop up units and maple leaf bucking in all my DE guns. They shot great now. 

 

As for the motor can't say I feel like it's lacking. ROF I think is pretty good on a 11.1v . I personally don't see the need to fire 25+ BBS a second. 

 

You're right, maybe I should just upgrade the barrel, hop unit and bucking.

[RostokMcSpoons]

1 hour ago, Nuchie said:

You're right, maybe I should just upgrade the barrel, hop unit and bucking.

You might find my thread useful... to cut the very long story short I changed the spring, nub, and hop - but not the barrel - and I got a settled velocity, but only a small improvement in accuracy.   But the accuracy wasn't bad anyway.
 

Maybe I'll get that ZCI barrel, but my last skirmishes with the gun have been excellent (I was getting hits with some speculative shots that I though were out of range) so I don't particularly feel the need to change it at the moment.

 

[Fatboy40]

On 02/10/2022 at 19:39, Nuchie said:

Cool! Have you done any upgrade to your De M90?

 

My M904E is almost completely different from stock apart from the receiver + handguard + gearbox shell + gears + motor + Falcon controller, everything else has been replaced with a mixture of parts from www.ak2m4.co.uk + Maple Leaf + Maxx Model + PTS.

 

My M908A has had various upgrades / mods to run as a UK site allowed semi-only DMR, shooting 0.40g (I've still got loads to do though to get it to my satisfaction, but bugger all money to do it).

 

My son's M906C hasn't been tweaked too much, just Maple Leaf bucking and nub + ZCI rotary hop unit + GearParts M100 spring + PTS EPS stock (all my money's gone on pimping out his G&G Firehawk with a GATE Titan and a few other bits and pieces).