External Upgrades to the TM HK416D DevGru

[Belphe]

Hi,

 

I’m a lucky owner of a Tokyo Marui HK416D DevGru which I purchased and upgraded to level 6 at Eagle6.co.uk. Unfortunately, due to "reasons" the gun has been kept in the box for nearly a year! This summer I decided to get back to Airsoft and finally started using my RIF. In the last couple of months, I equipped it with the following:

 

- MAGPUL Picatinny AFG2 Angled Fore Grip

- Matrix QD Style Mock Suppressor

- Aim-O XPS 3-2 Red/Green Dot

- Aim-O G33 3X Magnifier

- WADSN M600DF Tactical Scout Light

- NUPROL One Point Bungee Sling 1000D

- NUPROL NPQ15 Light/Laser Box

 

Further upgrades will consist of:

 

- bringing the internal upgrades to level 10 (by Eagle6)

- new stock (Magpul?)

- new grip (Tokyo Marui?)

- PTS EPM or Magpul magazines

 

I am extremely happy with this gun's performance and looks. However, I still have a few questions which I hope you'll be able to answer for me:

 

1. I am using a One-Point Sling which is attached to the designated original holder (see below). Do you think it is a durable enough part to carry the weight of this gun or should I consider a 2-point sling instead?

 

2. After seeing countless photos of HK416D's equipped with the same collimator and magnifier duo I discovered that they are mounted much further to the front of the rifle, with the red dot sight being pretty much above the magazine slot. However, I find them better suiting my needs when they are attached slightly more to the back, as seen in my pictures. Is this unrealistic?

 

3. Disregarding the price, would you recommend getting the PTS Magazines or Magpul ones?

 

I know these questions may seem trivial but please answer them if you can.

 

Much obliged and thanks for reading!

- Belphe

[Shamal]

I don't think you will have a prob hanging from that point. I've hung heavy guns from same point with no issues. 

👍

 

[SeniorSpaz87]

Sling point should be fine. Its well made. I have the FDE/bronze/RAL version myself. In terms of the sight placement, you are correct to place it further back. Ideally youll have it as far back as possible. Im a military/LEO firearms instructor stateside for background. Having the sight further back allows your eyes to focus though it, as opposed to on it. Similar to how your mind ignores your nose, despite the average schnozz being within view. Moving it forward makes it harder for your mind to ignore the physical sight and focus on your target - superimposing the dot (or circle plex in this case) over it. Furthermore, the G33 and G43 magnifiers tend to have relatively poor focal points, meaning they usually work poorly if not very close to the eye. Its better on the real ones, but not by much. Thats why most people skip magnifiers and instead of or systems like short dots or ELCANs which can be adjusted from 1x to whatever is desired (or 4x for the ELCAN). Ive mostly moved to ELCANs myself on both my airsoft replicas and my RS if Im not just using a dedicated 1x like an Eotech, Aimpoint, or Sig sight. Youll generally see sights put that far forward cause it looks cool in the movies, or I know some comp guys prefer it claiming they can acquire the sights faster - which is pointless if you have the built in muscle memory you should have from practicing with your gun.

[AlphaBear]

1 hour ago, SeniorSpaz87 said:

Sling point should be fine. Its well made. I have the FDE/bronze/RAL version myself. In terms of the sight placement, you are correct to place it further back. Ideally youll have it as far back as possible. Im a military/LEO firearms instructor stateside for background. Having the sight further back allows your eyes to focus though it, as opposed to on it. Similar to how your mind ignores your nose, despite the average schnozz being within view. Moving it forward makes it harder for your mind to ignore the physical sight and focus on your target - superimposing the dot (or circle plex in this case) over it. Furthermore, the G33 and G43 magnifiers tend to have relatively poor focal points, meaning they usually work poorly if not very close to the eye. Its better on the real ones, but not by much. Thats why most people skip magnifiers and instead of or systems like short dots or ELCANs which can be adjusted from 1x to whatever is desired (or 4x for the ELCAN). Ive mostly moved to ELCANs myself on both my airsoft replicas and my RS if Im not just using a dedicated 1x like an Eotech, Aimpoint, or Sig sight. Youll generally see sights put that far forward cause it looks cool in the movies, or I know some comp guys prefer it claiming they can acquire the sights faster - which is pointless if you have the built in muscle memory you should have from practicing with your gun.

That’s a good point you’ve made about where to place the red dot and how muscle memory plays a part in acquiring the target when you look through the red dot. I only use real steel optics on my replicas and the placement varies depending on the sight and furniture attached. If I’m using my 3xmag then my T1 is above the Magwell on the upper receiver as that’s only place I can fit it. If I’m using no magnification then the optic is closer to the back of the receiver. 
 

@Belphe On the topic of sling point, the rear sling point on the TM is very good and strong. It’s made of steel. However to i’d also recommended a front RSA coz sometimes you just want to carry the rifle in a two point configuration. In fact I do that more than in single point mode. 

[TheFull9]

The TM sling point at the base of the buffer tube should be fine but good lord buy a better sling, you've spent a fortune on that gun total and the cheapest thing on the entire list is the one thing that's stopping it dropping and getting utterly fucked by a paving slab.  1 or 2 point is all preference, just buy a quality one, nothing from nuprol is worth a 2nd glance but 'real' slings (anything you can get on tactical-kit) are one of the cheapest things you can get in airsoft that pay huge dividends in return.

 

Any Magpul Industries style magazine you can get at retail now is of unlicensed chinese manufacture, but maybe you can find the PTS EBB PMAGs 2nd hand.  Some chinese stuff will be fine ofc but the PTS EPMs are the best quality I know of in the realm of airsoft bb feeding devices.  Depends if you want the more realistic look at the possible cost of some durability and reliability.

 

Every SF guy and top end competition shooter or otherwise legit knowledgeable person I've ever seen, heard or spoken to puts their red dot optics somewhere right above the magazine.  It's all a balance; further back means more view through the optic but more of the housing and less of your surroundings - further forward means less view through but less of the housing and more of the surroundings.  Most people with enormous amounts of competitive and combat experience are all in agreement and all go for roughly the same place which is in the region of 2-4 rail slots further forward than you have it right now; not that it matters at airsoft distances but whatevs.  If you are using the magnifier of course then you just have to set that wherever you can actually use it depending on its' eye relief and where you set your stock, then obviously bring the dot optic butted right up against the magnifier, no way around that.  

 

 

[AlphaBear]

I’ve noticed one more thing with your setup. Is your magnifier in direct line of sight to your red dot? The magnifier seems a tad low? Are you getting a clear vision of the red dot through it and not getting any of the red dot’s  housing?

.

And a good point made by our colleague above about the sling. Get a decent one. 

[Chev Chelios]

Had a few NGRS in with cracked lowers in for repair (as shown in the pic and other along the red line) both using one point slings, I think you are right to go with a two point. Much less likely to hit you in the nads to. 

 

From a clone of the ones in use by US folks -

 

I would add witness marks on all the screws (I like a blue paint pen).

 

I would keep the stock and drill a hole in each of the battery caps then run some para cord/shock cord through the hole and the caps. 

 

Have you tried flipping the front iron around? Easier to open and can push the laser a few slots forward. 

 

I see a lot of these in photos with CAG with 416s https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003075002123.html? from reading the gun forums it sits the optics slightly higher and seems to hold zero if taken off. 

 

Although the KAC NT4 was around, very rare if ever to see one in such pristine shape, would beat the hell out of it and fry it with a blow torch or swap it for a Surefire RC2 and hide an ACETECH tracer in it. 

 

Hope you have lots of fun with the it!

[TheFull9]

1 hour ago, AlphaBear said:

I’ve noticed one more thing with your setup. Is your magnifier in direct line of sight to your red dot?

 

It's flipped outboard in the pics, will line up fine.

 

58 minutes ago, Chev Chelios said:

Had a few NGRS in with cracked lowers in for repair (as shown in the pic and other along the red line) both using one point slings, I think you are right to go with a two point. Much less likely to hit you in the nads to. 

 

Definitely interesting; have to say all 3 of my TM SOCOMs which are all very old at this point (and all my airsoft ARs in fact) use single point slings at the base of the buffer tube so I don't think it's necessarily endemic if you just treat the airsoft gun the way you should treat an airsoft gun vs dropping it so the sling catches it and takes all of the weight, but no denying that spreading the weight across 2 areas does halve the forces imparted on each.

[Belphe]

8 hours ago, AlphaBear said:

I’ve noticed one more thing with your setup. Is your magnifier in direct line of sight to your red dot? The magnifier seems a tad low? Are you getting a clear vision of the red dot through it and not getting any of the red dot’s  housing?

 

As @TheFull9 has noticed, the magnifier is flopped and looks off. It all aligns nicely when used

 

9 hours ago, TheFull9 said:

PTS EPMs are the best quality I know of in the realm of airsoft bb feeding devices.

 

Are these the ones: https://www.fire-support.co.uk/product/pts-epm-marui-recoil-m4scar-magazines-black120-rnd ?

 

Thank you all for your input. I'm considering all the options you mentioned!

Edited August 14, 2021 by Belphe

[TheFull9]

Those mags are what I'd go for personally.  However, spend money on the sling first if it's not been.

[C-Diddy]

The EPM NGRS mags are fantastic and what I run in my DEVGRU, but as others have pointed out, please, put everything aside until you get a decent sling. 

Head over to Tactical Kit and pick out a real steel sling. I run a Blue Force Gear CAS and it's fantastic, but others by Ferro Concepts or Magpul are also great options. Don't risk a grand's worth of musket to a strip of Nuprol tissue paper.