Ptw - I'm in Love....

[SammieSurrey]

After taking delivery and a bit of playing around tarting up my first PTW, I already want a 2nd one... 

 

Truth is though my budget has been blown this month so, unless I can find a bargain, I’m looking to potentially build a swappable upper to quick convert this to a CQB. Now, I’m new to PTWs and this one is FCC with Systema parts so, I’m a little unsure of compatibility. 
 

Any idea of UK places where I can find the right parts (upper receiver, cqb length inner/outer barrel, short RIS & suppressor) please.

 

Spec below:

FCC upper/lower with Knights logo engraved, Cerakoted DarkEarth

FCC 16inch convertible outer barrel , Varanas SPR precision barrel 

FCC Cylinder 330 FPS +Systema hop up

[AlphaBear]

Looking good there soldier! 

 

The first PTW is always special (aren't they all ). I've had mine since 2011 and it's still running strong... It shoots easily as good as my upgraded next gen recoils but of course without the recoil. Has yours had the usual Tackleberry mods done to it do you know? Like the motor rewind, HOP adjustment and moisture proofing of the electronics? If not, it's advisable... Also if you get onto the systema group on Facebook people can direct you. Also check out The Reptile House blog..... TRH is all full of reel steel porn and shows off people's builds based on references from photos in the wild so-to-speak.... 

 

[Speedbird_666]

1 hour ago, AlphaBear said:

Also check out The Reptile House blog..... TRH is all full of reel steel porn and shows off people's builds based on references from photos in the wild so-to-speak.... 

 

 

This.

 

I'm not (nor will never likely be) a PTW user, but the TRH blog is excellent for 'in the wild' references for builds along with PTW product updates.

 

Nice build BTW - tastefully done.

[AlphaBear]

My baby of pain....... Both money wise and bb wise lol

[Groot]

My 2008 it is current incarnation. I am fairly confident that this is one of the most beaten up and misused PTWs about.

First thing to be aware of. They are very picky about BB's. Do not put shit ones in. It will cost you. 
Geoffs and Valkyries work really well.  

 

Best place for Parts is Ebay, Forums, www.powair6.com, https://emperionstore.com/ and https://www.haoptwart.com/ 

 

Gun techs you have the infamous Tackleberry but you also have Tacbelts. Both of which have Facebook pages. Careful not to upset the Tackleberry simps. 

Honestly, maintaining a PTW is total cake. The hard part is keeping the motor singing. 

FCC is very expensive and their parts can be hit and miss. That said, yours looks well put together. 

As far as I know. You should be able to put a normal PTW upper straight on. The cylinders are certainly interchangeable. 

Inner barrel, I would got with an Orga Wide 
Hop up. Using a standard Systema housing, I would go for Orga Flat Hop and cage. ( Lazer beam ). Avoid the prebuild Super Awesome pro options. They generally SUCK!
There are rails aplenty to suit your personal style. Just be aware you will need to get the uppers standard thread, re-threaded to accept Airsoft barrel nuts. ( Some of the more gucci rails come with one which accepts both )

If you do not have a second cylinder for your CQBR build. Rather than buy one, which is at least £100 for a non branded option. Just buy a second spring. 
While straight swapping cylinders is one of the main selling points of PTW. You can easily unscrew the bottom of a cylinder ( which is not under pressure FYI ) and swap out for a higher/lower spring in about 1minute and then slam the thing back into the gun.  EZ

Then source the rest of your stuff like the upper and outer barrel second hand. I've seen them go on ebay for like £30. There have been a few around on this forum too. 
I would also replace your steelie mags with Pmags. There appears to be an abundance on for sale the forums at the moment.

There is a new PTW due this year which has an entirely new gearbox with internal brushless motor and DSG Gears.
Not going change mine but the new design is nice. ( Avoid the Recoil version with the Lipo in the Mags )

 

 

[AlphaBear]

I saw that news about the new gearbox. There’s a lot of excitement in the PTW community. However mine is working perfectly fine (circa 2011) and I’m not changing it. I can’t see the point. She still still shoots 350fps consistently give or take and range and accuracy is pretty spot on. 

[Groot]

2 minutes ago, AlphaBear said:

I saw that news about the new gearbox. There’s a lot of excitement in the PTW community. However mine is working perfectly fine (circa 2011) and I’m not changing it. I can’t see the point. She still still shoots 350fps consistently give or take and range and accuracy is pretty spot on. 

I think just the fact its Systema news is a exciting people. 

Weird company with horrific marketing over the last decade.

The motor in the box is a nice touch but seems overly engineered since well, PTWs biggest issue is there motors are a bit shit and cost the earth. 
Hopefully this has been addressed with this new design. 

Most people are super happy because now they can put any grip on they like

[AlphaBear]

Oh yeah #motorgate tell me about it. Mine died on me mid game when I was playing CQB in a three story building. The gun was just a couple of yrs old at the time.  I’ve never sworn so much during an Airsoft game lol. I got the usual TAC mods done after that so all was well....

 

Plus there is something about the sound of a ptw. It’s quite unique. 

[Groot]

9 minutes ago, AlphaBear said:

Oh yeah #motorgate tell me about it. Mine died on me mid game when I was playing CQB in a three story building. The gun was just a couple of yrs old at the time.  I’ve never sworn so much during an Airsoft game lol. I got the usual TAC mods done after that so all was well....

 

Plus there is something about the sound of a ptw. It’s quite unique. 

 

So myself and 3 others got some of the very first 2008 model from a well know retailer at cost. Winner

I took it home, put a rail on it and sprayed it before even firing a shot. 

Tested it in the garden and its was kinda meh on the old 9.6V batteries and the blue cylinder kicking out something in the region of 360.

The motor died about halfway through its first ever game. We are talking about 1000 bbs through it. Also the hop was shiiiiiiiiiiiiite too. 
Much swearing, wondering why I had invested so much etc etc.
It went back to the retailer, gun went away to be rewound and the hop modded. Pretty sure it was Tac. As at the time, he was the only one willing to work on them

Since then, it has been serviced twice by Project PTW ( RIP ) and changed to Lipo batteries. 

Cannot speak highly enough about PTW's for value for money vs usage. 

[AlphaBear]

Ahhhh yes that well know retailer at that time was the only one importing them in and still does I do believe. And more than likely they probably did go down south to Tac for his magical touch. The rail I have on my is a Daniel Defense CQB rail. It came from the states together with a few other gubbins. Then I had to have it milled to fit the systema receiver only where it pulls open so that it allowed the receiver to cock 90 degrees. Otherwise the lower part of the rail kept hitting the lower receiver. 
 

And yes value for money vs use they simply go on and on once ‘fixed’. 

[Groot]

7 minutes ago, AlphaBear said:

Ahhhh yes that well know retailer at that time was the only one importing them in and still does I do believe. And more than likely they probably did go down south to Tac for his magical touch. The rail I have on my is a Daniel Defense CQB rail. It came from the states together with a few other gubbins. Then I had to have it milled to fit the systema receiver only where it pulls open so that it allowed the receiver to cock 90 degrees. Otherwise the lower part of the rail kept hitting the lower receiver. 
 

And yes value for money vs use they simply go on and on once ‘fixed’. 

Funnily enough, my first was a DD rail too but an Airsoft version. Mine was clearly not to spec, as I never needed to get it milled to allow for access. ( Which was nice ) 

I am now a whore for Geissele.

Next purchase will probably be a M4A1 MWS and that will be having a 13.5' Geissele M-Lok thrown on. Still not sure I will like the MWS but i wants one.

[AlphaBear]

This is my MWS and truth be told I really like it. It’s just a different experience. As you know I have a few recoils too and I just jump between the platforms depending on the game and my mood and of course the temperature lol

 

@SammieSurrey sorry we just took over your thread lol. You’ll find that a lot here. We’re a friendly talkative bunch 😂

[Groot]

6 minutes ago, AlphaBear said:

This is my MWS and truth be told I really like it. It’s just a different experience. As you know I have a few recoils too and I just jump between the platforms depending on the game and my mood and of course the temperature lol

 

@SammieSurrey sorry we just took over your thread lol. You’ll find that a lot here. We’re a friendly talkative bunch 😂

 

I am going to build mine into a semi dmr platform. It is the only way I will be able to use one, with my blood lust. 



Essentially this but with Magpul furniture and an Eotech voodoo clone on, yes a Geissele mount

I've got a pimped out Recoil too and currently enjoying running that over the PTW, just because its different to the PTW i have used solely until last year
Both reach out to about 70m with .32's

[AlphaBear]

I only play with 0.3Geoffs in the PTW. I’ve not measured range. All I know is the bb get to it’s target faster than i could possibly run that distance 😂

.

Nice set up. That’s rail is all the rage at the moment. 

[Giraffe]

I built two retro AR15 PTW's years ago... Couldn't stand the snide remarks in the lines for chrono at games so I quit playing. That new gearbox looks interesting though, especially if it drops into the existing lowers.

[AlphaBear]

Ahhhh the so called PTW ‘haters’. I remember them. There used to be a lot of that at the time. Even I got a few ‘snide’ remarks but most were intrigued and genuinely interested. In those days a sub £1k gun was rare! Roll on to airsoft ‘today’ and many guns are touching £1k if not more. No one bats an eyelid these days lol. 
 

But yes that new gearbox setup does look pretty slick. Let’s see what the first reviews will be like and of course the price. 

[Speedbird_666]

Genuine question, in a world of TM NGRS, MWS, HPA, Electronic Trigger Units, DSG etc.....are PTWs even relevant anymore?

 

I'm sure existing owners will swear blind that they are, but with with so many alternatives, a lack of UK retailers stocking them properly anymore, a very high price tag and questionable 'out of the box' reliability, I struggle to see how.

 

Not a hater. I would of had one if I could of afforded one - ten years ago when they were still a 'thing'.

[AlphaBear]

Yes they are relevant. Why shouldn’t they not be? It’s another platform in our hobby/sport. They are a niche market and outside of airsoft they are still very big amongst enthusiasts and collectors. Check out some of the forums and you’ll see how much effort has been spent in building them into real life models of the real thing. 

A HAO kitted PTW will set your back over £2.5k. It’s insane I know but as I said it’s a niche market and damn they don’t half look good either. 

 

With this new ‘evolution’ you may even see a resurgence of the platform. It’s all exciting. 

.

And actually all current ptw out of the box will have a ‘new spec’ motor so that previous notion of unreliability went out the window a few years ago. 

[AlphaBear]

And here is mine..... purrs like a kitten and weighs as much as a baby elephant. 

[Speedbird_666]

1 hour ago, AlphaBear said:

Yes they are relevant. Why shouldn’t they not be? It’s another platform in our hobby/sport. They are a niche market and outside of airsoft they are still very big amongst enthusiasts and collectors. Check out some of the forums and you’ll see how much effort has been spent in building them into real life models of the real thing.

 

Fair enough. It's just that I see far more Scorpions, NGRS, HPA etc than PTWs. In fact, I don't think I've crossed paths with a PTW at any game day I've played in the last 5 years. A decade ago, there was always at least 4-5 PTW users.

 

I mean, where can you even buy a PTW from in the UK? None of the major retailers stock them anymore.

 

I doubt there will be a resurgence in the platform though, even with the new gearbox. But the existing user base will lap it up I'm sure.

 

 

 

[AlphaBear]

7 minutes ago, Speedbird_666 said:

 

Fair enough. It's just that I see far more Scorpions, NGRS, HPA etc than PTWs. In fact, I don't think I've crossed paths with a PTW at any game day I've played in the last 5 years. A decade ago, there was always at least 4-5 PTW users.

 

I mean, where can you even buy a PTW from in the UK? None of the major retailers stock them anymore.

 

I doubt there will be a resurgence in the platform though, even with the new gearbox. But the existing user base will lap it up I'm sure.

 

 

 

The resurgence will no doubt happen I do believe but on a niche scale. Mostly by the current enthusiasts.  Let’s face it not everyone can drop a grand and a half on a RIF (I say that in the nicest way too).  But then again so many people drop a grand easily on upgrading recoils (let’s not go down that route lol). Of course Japan will lead the way as it always does and then word will filter out on the normal channels. 
 

Fire Support is the only UK retailer who still deals with PTWs and then there is Tac. If you need one people just go to TAC. Simple as that. Oh Sam up at  KoA also started off with PTWs so he’s got a background in them. You will also find these days a PTW is built to order and then it’s a specific build. 
 

[Speedbird_666]

Fire Support don't even list the base guns on the website anymore. If they are not being used anywhere nearly as much on game days, and they are not even visible on retailer websites, how will the user base for the platform expand with new blood? Christ, I don't think I've even seen one on a gameplay YouTube video in years come to think about it.

 

You can't even find the clones anywhere to pique people's interest either.

 

So I go back to my original point - relevance. They are the play thing of a small number of enthusiasts and collectors no doubt, but as a product in the wider Airsoft Industry space, they are but a footnote now. The world has moved on, and Systema has been too slow to catch up (IMO).

 

No malice intended towards anyone who owns and enjoys the platform, just throwing in my 2 pennies for a bit of civil discourse.

 

Have fun.

[AlphaBear]

We always have fun

 

I've just checked now and yup you're right they have stopped listing them now but let's face it their business model is driven by what the current demand is so recoils, scorpions, whatever floats peoples boats will be listed (obviously).... Granted many people won't have a clue what a PTW is as it's no longer mainstream and Systema certainly shot themselves in the foot with their marketing in that respect. There is no denying that. They continued their existence with the so called 'professional training arenas' outside of mainstream airsoft.

 

Now..... relevance is a state of mind. What is relevant to one person won't be relevant to another. I won't go out a buy a Specna or a Scorpion coz it's simply not relevant to me.... And yes there were clones back in the day and guess what they cost half the price and they simply didn't cut the mustard.... Also, you may be surprised how many people still run Systema's. They just work. One of my last games in October I took mine out for a spin... the reaction I got was''' mate what rifle is that". They have a unique sound and they always nearly always hit their target. People asked if they could have a quick play and I was fine with that... and the reaction was an unanimous WOW where can I get one.  Is my Systema better than my supa dupa recoil.... Hell yes. Hands down. Do I play with my recoils more? Yes I do.... Go figure.... 

 

Technology has moved on... R-hop, S-hop, whatever hop, HPA and so on.... prices have fallen and there is more variety in the market... however a Ferrari will always be a Ferrari regardless of the model... and a Systema is what it is... a damn bloody good airsoft rifle. Slap in a new cylinder and you can go from 330fps to 550fps in a matter of 10 seconds..... (and I know with HPA you can turn the knob and voila but guess what you need an air tank and a hose...)

[Groot]

@Speedbird_666

 

Without going full fanboi. 

The PTW feels different to all other airsoft guns that I have handled ( bar maybe the MWS but that doesn't apply since its ammo cap forces you to play a certain way ).
Redwolf put it the best in their GBBR Review. NGRS are awesome. If you want to win, get a PTW. 
The trigger and the general compliant click of the selector, is a huge thing really. The sound is delicious and really quiet on single relatively speaking.
It is thinner in both the grip and body, since normal AEG's are all fatter than normal M4's. Since the original TM designs were based around drawings and pictures. Everyone else just copied the sizing and here we are today. ( Bar a few like Umarex, but the SUCK inside ) 

The guns I have left are my 2008 PTW, an NGRS with all of the wanky upgrades (Which i got off a friend at a price that i couldn't say no to), a tricked out Gspec, a project MP5K PDW (Youtube of it coming at somepoint) and Glock pistol. 

The PTW out performs every AEG, i have ever used. Range, consistent accuracy, durability and reliability. My fully upgraded NGRS is just as good as a PTW but doesn't feel the same. ( ignoring recoil ) 

It is also harder to change the FPS on the fly ( which can be a big deal depending a fussy site chrono, ammo weight etc. If you run to the limit ), where the PTW is a 1min job with either new springs or shims.

Still very useful for woodland to cqb sites, with the same gat. 

 

The issue with Systema is their marketing department needs to be taken outside and shot. They have zero presence.

Had they built on their momentum back in 2008, when they were leaps and bounds in front of all others.  It would be a different story now.

The new box is revolutionary and if handed well, could make them the next hot thing. The potential to put that design into other guns styles is huge. Everyone has always dreamed of a PTW AK. 

Sadly, Again i think they will stay niche, because only those in the know will research or take the punt. This is their website ffs http://www.systema-engineering.com/ yawn. 
That smaller requirement will directly impact which retailers take the punt at stocking PTW vs the NGRS with mods, which has excellent exposure. 
Honestly your best bet it to get a challenge kit. It is not at all hard to build and like i mentioned before, the only historic weak area is the motor. Once sorted, you are set. 

I miss the hate at the chrono. My gun is so beat up now. Its only when they hear it shoot, does everyone stop and take note. Any negative comments, I lol at them and refer to them only as peasants. 

Then in most cases out range them by a good 10m .. Salty fun times

 

[Adolf Hamster]

On 26/01/2021 at 15:42, Groot said:

Weird company with horrific marketing over the last decade.

 

sounds like a pretty accurate description.

 

must admit systema is a brand i have yet to understand.

 

different mechanism that yeilds good performance yes, very high quality yes, but from what i've seen of them running i wouldn't say they shoot than what you can acheive with a regular aeg if you know what you're doing.

 

the spring swap is a consideration, but for example on a flat limit (eg if you only play outdoors, or play somewhere with a fixed energy limit for all guns) it's kind of a moot point.

 

of course that's a passing impression, and i get the feeling that it's one of those "you have to own one to understand" kind of deals.