Gp Dbal A2 Ir Illuminator and Laser

[Alicks]

Hi All

I have recently purchased the Dbal A2 peq and have heard that it is actually too powerful to be fielded in games due to the IR laser being a class3 , and the IR illuminator is also a laser with a lens on the front dispersing the beam over a wider area.

Does anyone know if this is true? or is it all scare mongering?

I read somewhere that the laser is a 10mW

Does anyone here use them in games?

This seems to be a contentious subject on the canadian airsoft forums and usually devolves into people shouting at each other, so i was wondering what the consensus was in the UK.

Starting to think i should have done more research before i bought it...

 

Thanks
Alicks

[Lozart]

There's a good review of the G&P unit on the ATRG blog https://atrg.blog/2018/10/11/accessory-review-gp-dbal-a2-ir-red-version/

 

He does mention that the laser is pretty powerful on full bore and that it may be an issue. In terms of power the label on the unit seems to suggest it's 5mW which would put it in Class 3R (IIIb). Now, for visible light lasers that's ok for the blink response so as long as it's an exposure of 1/4 second or less you'd be fine. For IR lasers of course it's a different matter as there is no blink response. If it is actually 10mW then I'd say it's a definite no-no for most sites.

[Alicks]

Yeh i did see the post from ATRG, however he didnt really go into the safety side of things, Tim from THG also did  a review on them but says he doesnt use the illuminator, however he has now moved onto a russian designator.

I read from a canadian forum that the laser is a 10mW from a correspondence with G&P direct.

I wondering how many people are using them in games, or whether they are just using these units for plinking in the garden, as they seem to he highly sought after.

[Guest DrAlexanderTobacco]

Too powerful for games. 10mw will do some serious damage to eyesight, combined with IR it's just too risky to be using.

[Lozart]

2 minutes ago, Alicks said:

Yeh i did see the post from ATRG, however he didnt really go into the safety side of things, Tim from THG also did  a review on them but says he doesnt use the illuminator, however he has now moved onto a russian designator.

I read from a canadian forum that the laser is a 10mW from a correspondence with G&P direct.

I wondering how many people are using them in games, or whether they are just using these units for plinking in the garden, as they seem to he highly sought after.

 

There's quite a few people in the US using them for real steel shooting!

 

I honestly highly doubt they're actually 10mW as that would firmly put it into Class 3B (https://www.lasersafetyfacts.com/laserclasses.html) which falls into "definitely not a toy" areas. They're highly sought after by NOD users in airsoft because they're about the only ones that actually allow you to accurately zero the laser properly!

 

As for safety, a 5mW IR laser or illuminator can cause damage to the retina if you're close enough or exposed for too long. As there is no blink reflex to IR light the risk of this goes up massively. Of course you might just be the most careful guy inn the world and never point it at someone's face but that doesn't mean someone won't look round and get it full bore in the eye.

[Guest DrAlexanderTobacco]

I can't remember where I saw this but some chap took the time to actually measure the power output of clone laser units and found their power level to be sometimes double what was specified for the model.

 

If you're looking for a cheap(ish), safe(r), IR laser to use for night games then check out the Perst-4 - Russian unit, cheap, works well - or a unit from Holosun (Chinese manufacturer but plenty of US chaps use them for real shooting)

[Alicks]

Yea this is what is concerning me and my mate.

10mW seems to be stupidly powerful, especially considering the low power is actually just high power on pulsed to prolong the battery life.

We are all for using lasers when running NODS but the last thing i want to do is flash someone with a 10mW laser. 

1 minute ago, DrAlexanderTobacco said:

I can't remember where I saw this but some chap took the time to acutually measure the power output of clone laser units and found their power level to be sometimes double what was specified for the model.

 

If you're looking for a cheap(ish), safe(r), IR laser to use for night games then check out the Perst-4 - Russian unit, cheap, works well - or a unit from Holosun (Chinese manufacturer but plenty of US chaps use them for real shooting)

Aye Tim from THG uses a Perst-4 i think now

12 minutes ago, Lozart said:

 

There's quite a few people in the US using them for real steel shooting!

 

I honestly highly doubt they're actually 10mW as that would firmly put it into Class 3B (https://www.lasersafetyfacts.com/laserclasses.html) which falls into "definitely not a toy" areas. They're highly sought after by NOD users in airsoft because they're about the only ones that actually allow you to accurately zero the laser properly!

 

As for safety, a 5mW IR laser or illuminator can cause damage to the retina if you're close enough or exposed for too long. As there is no blink reflex to IR light the risk of this goes up massively. Of course you might just be the most careful guy inn the world and never point it at someone's face but that doesn't mean someone won't look round and get it full bore in the eye.

http://airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=148634

here is the post that discusses it, its post number 11

says he got the reply direct from G&P, and the given code matches up to the G&P Dbal Ir illuminator and laser unit

[Lozart]

11 minutes ago, Alicks said:

http://airsoftcanada.com/showthread.php?t=148634

here is the post that discusses it, its post number 11

says he got the reply direct from G&P, and the given code matches up to the G&P Dbal Ir illuminator and laser unit

 

A couple of posts down someone mentions that the code in question references a newer model that doesn't actually have IR. Regardless, 635nm is visible red but at 10mW it's definitely too hot for airsoft.

Quote

G&P Laser Destinator and Illuminator GP-LSP003 for GP Airsoft Spare Parts Kit Set

Description:
A) Output & mode switch
1. ON LO PWR-->Low power constant on
2. MOM LO PWR-->Low power (Below 1 sec.)
3. OFF-->Off
4. MOM HI PWR-->Hi power (Below 1 sec.)
5. ON HI PWR-->Hi power constant on

B) Function switch
1. VIS POINT-->Visible pointer only
2. VIS ILLUM-->Visible red illuminator only
3. VIS POINT & ILLUM-->Visible red pointer and illumator
4. VIS POINT-->Visible red pointer only

 

[Alicks]

3 minutes ago, Lozart said:

 

A couple of posts down someone mentions that the code in question references a newer model that doesn't actually have IR. Regardless, 635nm is visible red but at 10mW it's definitely too hot for airsoft.

You could be right on the visible laser, i must have overlooked that

But yea deffo too strong for the field

but does make me wonder why they are so popular if they are so dangerous. i can understand Nod users wanting to use them for plinking in the garden, but the more im reading into it the more im baffled by people running them in games

[Lozart]

2 minutes ago, Alicks said:

You could be right on the visible laser, i must have overlooked that

But yea deffo too strong for the field

but does make me wonder why they are so popular if they are so dangerous. i can understand Nod users wanting to use them for plinking in the garden, but the more im reading into it the more im baffled by people running them in games

 

The cheaper ones that run Class 1 lasers are pretty rubbish to be honest. The Element DBAL for example doesn't adjust or keep its zero properly and to be quite honest a lot of airsofters don't really give a shit about laser safety otherwise they wouldn't be banned from so many sites!

[Alicks]

1 minute ago, Lozart said:

 

The cheaper ones that run Class 1 lasers are pretty rubbish to be honest. The Element DBAL for example doesn't adjust or keep its zero properly and to be quite honest a lot of airsofters don't really give a shit about laser safety otherwise they wouldn't be banned from so many sites!

Truth, ppl be dumb sometimes (all the time in certain cases)

I now have a conundrum of trying to mod the dbal for LED IR and a lower power laser, or selling it on and trying out the soon to be released  SOMOGEAR PEQ or NGAL

[GeorgePlaysAirsoft]

I've not seen any sites specifically ban a specific laser / power, but plenty ban green lasers, plenty ban IR lasers, so there's that.

 

Somogear are releasing a v2 of thier peq and ngal, which in addition to having a 1mW ir laser, will also have an ir illuminator  That is probably your best bet for a lower powered laser with a built in illuminator before you get in to the (roughly) $1k mark.

 

Another lower cost but arguably less functional option is to get a somogear cqbl-1 (laser only) one of these + a dual pressure switch. I use this set up with a somogear ngal and it works well, though I'd prefer a proper all-in-one IR set up and the IR function on that flashlight isn't very powerful/long range.

 

You could also investigate a neutral density filter to "attenuate" the laser beam, I know nothing about that though.

 

 

[Lozart]

1 minute ago, Alicks said:

Truth, ppl be dumb sometimes (all the time in certain cases)

I now have a conundrum of trying to mod the dbal for LED IR and a lower power laser, or selling it on and trying out the soon to be released  SOMOGEAR PEQ or NGAL

 

I doubt you'll have trouble selling it, as you say people seem to want them!

 

As for the Somogear ones - they're still Class 3R (4-5mW according to their website) so safer but not entirely "safe" as such especially taking into consideration the aforementioned issues around IR lasers.

[GeorgePlaysAirsoft]

1 minute ago, Lozart said:

 

I doubt you'll have trouble selling it, as you say people seem to want them!

 

As for the Somogear ones - they're still Class 3R (4-5mW according to their website) so safer but not entirely "safe" as such especially taking into consideration the aforementioned issues around IR lasers.

 

Worth noting that that is for the visible lasers. I was sent a green laser version, not a red laser version, the former is listed as 4.9mW. It is.. disconcerting as it is fun to wave around. Deffo not something I'd use in a skirmish, even the reflection against cream wallpaper was uncomfortable! The IR laser is 1mW and the new version will be 1mW (low) and 5mW (high)

 

 

 

 

[Lozart]

5 minutes ago, GeorgePlaysAirsoft said:

 

Worth noting that that is for the visible lasers. I was sent a green laser version, not a red laser version, the former is listed as 4.9mW. It is.. disconcerting as it is fun to wave around. Deffo not something I'd use in a skirmish, even the reflection against cream wallpaper was uncomfortable! The IR laser is 1mW and the new version will be 1mW (low) and 5mW (high)

 

 

 

 

 

Have you seen the laser ratings on their GEN2 PEQ-15? 😮 High power is 25mW visible, 20mW IR!

[GeorgePlaysAirsoft]

2 minutes ago, Lozart said:

 

Have you seen the laser ratings on their GEN2 PEQ-15? 😮 High power is 25mW visible, 20mW IR!

 

Apologies - you are quite right, I was referring to an older picture and the annotations are a bit funky. 

[Alicks]

12 minutes ago, GeorgePlaysAirsoft said:

I've not seen any sites specifically ban a specific laser / power, but plenty ban green lasers, plenty ban IR lasers, so there's that.

 

Somogear are releasing a v2 of thier peq and ngal, which in addition to having a 1mW ir laser, will also have an ir illuminator  That is probably your best bet for a lower powered laser with a built in illuminator before you get in to the (roughly) $1k mark.

 

Another lower cost but arguably less functional option is to get a somogear cqbl-1 (laser only) one of these + a dual pressure switch. I use this set up with a somogear ngal and it works well, though I'd prefer a proper all-in-one IR set up and the IR function on that flashlight isn't very powerful/long range.

 

You could also investigate a neutral density filter to "attenuate" the laser beam, I know nothing about that though.

 

 

Aye this was the forerunner until we saw the dbals for a good price and jumped on them, also the zeroable IR illuminator

5 minutes ago, Lozart said:

 

Have you seen the laser ratings on their GEN2 PEQ-15? 😮 High power is 25mW visible, 20mW IR!

Was this for the vis laser in green?

[GeorgePlaysAirsoft]

4 minutes ago, Alicks said:

Aye this was the forerunner until we saw the dbals for a good price and jumped on them, also the zeroable IR illuminator

Was this for the vis laser in green?

Specs are/ should be: 

 

IR laser: 1mW/ 20mW
Ir Ilum: 5mW/60mW
Red laser: 5mW/25mW
Green laser: 5mW/20mW

[Alicks]

yeh thats what the specs are on their website, lets hope they stick to them

[GeorgePlaysAirsoft]

3 minutes ago, Alicks said:

yeh thats what the specs are on their website, lets hope they stick to them

 

 I am quietly confident. After messing around with not one but two element peqs, the somogear ngal (v1) is pretty good, all things considered. Somogear are also quite hot on user feedback, indeed they didn't plan to release a "full IR" version of the peq and ngal till customers persuaded them, they've continued to take feedback on board and refine their products, which is pretty cool and dare i say, quite rare in this world.  Fingers crossed...

[Lozart]

Shame the PTS MAWL is still nowhere to be seen.

[TheFull9]

That was just getting going as covid hit, real kicker.  I haven't heard the specs on it from them, but I'd be confident they would've put in IR stuff powerful enough to actually be useful at airsoft ranges, but at safe power levels.  Which for me would be a solid buy right away because I've owned a PVS-14 and IR SureFire light for years but trying to aim without a laser is definitely sub optimal and I don't like the looks of literally anything else out on the market really.

[Captain Darling]

I’ve got the newer Element WADSN Dbal, and I find the IR laser too bright.  It seems to hold zero, but I have stopped using it as I’m concerned over safety. 
 

The whole area of lasers in airsoft is a concern for me, especially with the Russian military stuff having the potential to be dangerously powerful.  I wouldn’t be comfortable having one pointed in the direction of my NVG and/or eyes.

 

I’m using an Eotech 552 for targeting, and find it superb for airsoft engagement distances. It just floats over the target and I rarely need to adjust my fall of shot to hit.

 

I just don’t get it why players wander around with shitty light discipline, pissing out signature everywhere. White light or IR, it all looks similar under my NVG.  I do use tracers though, which I know is a giveaway, but they just look so cool. Geoff’s make a nice .32, so it’d be rude not to.

[Alicks]

4 hours ago, Captain Darling said:

I’ve got the newer Element WADSN Dbal, and I find the IR laser too bright.  It seems to hold zero, but I have stopped using it as I’m concerned over safety. 
 

The whole area of lasers in airsoft is a concern for me, especially with the Russian military stuff having the potential to be dangerously powerful.  I wouldn’t be comfortable having one pointed in the direction of my NVG and/or eyes.

 

I’m using an Eotech 552 for targeting, and find it superb for airsoft engagement distances. It just floats over the target and I rarely need to adjust my fall of shot to hit.

 

I just don’t get it why players wander around with shitty light discipline, pissing out signature everywhere. White light or IR, it all looks similar under my NVG.  I do use tracers though, which I know is a giveaway, but they just look so cool. Geoff’s make a nice .32, so it’d be rude not to.

Aye my gen1 552 and aimpoint T2 do work well under NODS, the 552 especially, as you say just floats over the target like a ring of death

 

17 hours ago, Lozart said:

Shame the PTS MAWL is still nowhere to be seen.

IKR... gna take forever to come out