Rifle Doesn't Fire, Makes Weird Clicking Noise When Trigger Pulled, Video Included.

[Hashe8848]

I had stopped playing airsoft for multiple months after school started up again and I left my Nuprol Delta Pioneer Defender on my shelf for a good half a year, without ever testing it or moving it. I recently took it down only to find that it didn't shoot and only clicked weirdly like in the video. The battery was never plugged in over this period and I had charged it up several times after I discovered the problem to see if it fixed it, but to no avail. The only important thing I ever did to the gun was a spring upgrade, from stock to an M110, and I'm worried that this could've damaged the gearbox from putting a lot of pressure on it for so long. I've completely taken the gun apart as well as the entire gearbox but didn't find anything glaringly obvious and never found a good fix, so I've found a working replacement gearbox which I was planning on buying, but I'm also worried that it might be a motor issue which is causing this and that buying a replacement gearbox wouldn't fix the problem, so I'm asking if anyone has seen this problem before and what has caused it, and whether or not replacing the gearbox will fix this, or maybe it is a simpler problem with an easier fix.

 

If you need any other info let me know.

[Zarrin]

Before delving into the guts of the gun itself - try removing the stock tube which is retained by a bolt that goes through to the spring guide - retest with the stock tube detached and then come back  to us.

 

Also make sure you are testing with a fully charged battery - an 11.1v if you have one. If you have a multi-meter test the voltage coming off any batts you are using.

[Iceni]

58 minutes ago, Hashe8848 said:

The only important thing I ever did to the gun was a spring upgrade, from stock to an M110

Is it a quick change spring on that gearbox?

If you held the gearbox nozzle up on a spring change - so the piston fell to the back of the gearbox, and if the sector gear was partially engaged at the same time then you can get into a position where the sector is engaging at the front of the piston rather than the back. This will attempt to push the piston back further than it has travel for and lock up like the video.

The solution is to remove the gearbox from the gun, then remove the QC spring guide and spring. The motor should already be off the gearbox as it's a V2.

You then poke about at the gearbox from the outside. You need to pull the piston back far enough that you can spin the gearbox a little. And find the point where the piston can travel all the way forwards, At this point put the spring and spring guide back in (piston fully forwards position).

The other method would be to release the anti reversal latch inside the gearbox. This can be tricky if you don't know the internal layout of a V2 gearbox, but it can be done on an assembled gearbox with a decent thin screwdriver through the motor hole.

It's the part lettered "J" and needs to be pulled down away from the bevel gear "I3". The action will be a slight rotation towards the backside of the gearbox.

 

Don't put a fully charged 11.1v into it... The piston is locked, it'll do far more harm than good, and could potentially strip the piston or crack the gears. In fact stop trying to shoot it at all until you know the piston is free again.

[EDcase]

You'll need to open up the gearbox as Iceni said.  Try to pull back the anti-reversal latch or take out the spring and reset the gears.

 

DON'T use an 11.1 battery.

[Hashe8848]

Update - following what Iceni said, spring and guide removed, going to try to get the piston to move forwards.

Rotated the I3 gear until it stopped getting blocked by the non return latch, then I could freely move the piston all the way forward by hand.

Any hints on the next step I should take?

[Iceni]

If it's all the way forwards then put the spring and guide back in. It needs to go in with the piston still in the fully forwards position.

With the guide back in you can rotate the gearbox by hand using a screwdriver on the bevel "I3" taking it one anti reversal step at a time. It'll take some effort but the gun will fully cycle if you have everything right. If it locks again then there is a problem somewhere.

 

[Hashe8848]

4 minutes ago, Iceni said:

If it's all the way forwards then put the spring and guide back in. It needs to go in with the piston still in the fully forwards position.

With the guide back in you can rotate the gearbox by hand using a screwdriver on the bevel "I3" taking it one anti reversal step at a time. It'll take some effort but the gun will fully cycle if you have everything right.

 

By one step at a time you men i should rotate it in the direction in which the anti reversal blocks it, and unlock it and spin one tooth at a time?

[Iceni]

Just keep going one step at a time letting the latch hold. You'll see the piston start to move back, It'll get quite hard to make the next step as you get closer to a full cycle, but it should cycle eventually.

[Hashe8848]

3 minutes ago, Iceni said:

Just keep going one step at a time letting the latch hold. You'll see the piston start to move back, It'll get quite hard to make the next step as you get closer to a full cycle, but it should cycle eventually.

ok sure ill see how it goes.

Ok, with incredible difficulty(turning that small gear with the whole spring working against you is damn hard, you were right) i got it fully rotated and it fired off back to the forward position. Should i reassemble and see if it works?

[Iceni]

Yup you should be golden to rebuild

[Hashe8848]

Well if anything this gave me respect for those motors cause that was hard work. I'll let you know what happens when its together

[Hashe8848]

ok so i put the gun together and pulled the trigger, heard the motor spin and a few clicks, and then the piston got stuck in the same position as before and im back to the clicking like at the beginning, ill do the same thing again and see if it helps.

Also, is the motor pinion meant to spin freely, because mine rotates in steps and has some resistance.

[Hashe8848]

The more i look at it the more it seems like the motor doesnt have enough torque to fully pull back the spring.

Or the battery has degraded

Here's the multimeter readings just in case.

adds up to 7.4

[EDcase]

53 minutes ago, Hashe8848 said:

...mine rotates in steps and has some resistance.

Yes, that's normal and means its a good motor.

 

Since you could cycle it by hand that would point to a bad battery.   Even if it reads 7.4v it might not have enough current under load.

I guess you haven't opened the gearbox to see condition of things?

[Hashe8848]

Here's the insides

[EDcase]

Looks a bit dry but otherwise OK.

Maybe a little grease on the gears and piston slides before closing it up.

 

Seems like you'll need to get a new battery...

 

[Hashe8848]

Yeah i probably will, thanks for the help!

[Iceni]

What are you using to charge the battery? Because that battery doesn't look to have been balanced charged. With 4.1v in one cell and 3.3v in the other. Both cells should be showing a similar voltage.

Either it's a battery with a dead cell or the charger isn't right.

[Hashe8848]

13 minutes ago, Iceni said:

What are you using to charge the battery? Because that battery doesn't look to have been balanced charged. With 4.1v in one cell and 3.3v in the other. Both cells should be showing a similar voltage.

Either it's a battery with a dead cell or the charger isn't right.

Charger should be good the people who I got the gun from recommended it to me.

[Adolf Hamster]

Do we have another case of one of those chargers with a dead circuit?

 

I've heard a few stories of those types doing that as well as having had one myself do the exact same thing.

 

the way to tell is if one or more of the led's doesnt change colour when charging.

 

also i'm guessing you gave that gearbox a clean before you photographed it? there should be some grease in there.....

[Hashe8848]

41 minutes ago, Adolf Hamster said:

Do we have another case of one of those chargers with a dead circuit?

 

I've heard a few stories of those types doing that as well as having had one myself do the exact same thing.

 

the way to tell is if one or more of the led's doesnt change colour when charging.

 

also i'm guessing you gave that gearbox a clean before you photographed it? there should be some grease in there.....

It is fairly greased up but I guess you can't see it too much in the picture, and on my charger the 1 cell light is red when I charge it and changes to this purplish colour when it's done charging, and the 2 and 3 cell lights are always blue.

[Rogerborg]

1 hour ago, Hashe8848 said:

Charger should be good the people who I got the gun from recommended it to me

 

But they also sold you a Nuprol.  And yes, those cells should be balanced, and a freshly charged 2-cell lipo should be closer to 8.4V than 7.4V.

 

Sight unseen, I think your gearbox is fine, unless there's some burr that's catching on the piston.  If you can slide it freely back and forwards with the spring out then it should be OK though.

 

I'd suspect that's just a weak battery. Do you have a fresh battery that you can borrow from someone to rule one of them out?

 

Or if that charger isn't doing it's job, then we're liking the ISDT Q6 Nano as a cheap, effective unit at the moment.

 

Then if you're confident about the battery, you could treat it to a better motor.  Plenty of brand name opinions are available, and I've just been pleasantly surprised by a cheap Big Dragon "M140" motor from Ali Express.  I've got for "high torque" motors in my upgrades as I don't care about ROF, but I do care about avoiding lockups like you're getting.

 

Since you're clearly technically competent, you might consider rewiring the whole thing to Deans or XT60 using 16 awg wire while you're at it.

[Speedbird_666]

46 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

Or if that charger isn't doing it's job, then we're liking the ISDT Q6 Nano as a cheap, effective unit at the moment.

 

Yeh, mines on a slow boat from China at the moment along with some other RC gear I ordered. The unit only costs £21 and has got a colour IPS display and more functions than than the average Airsoft player will ever need. 

 

I've just received a ToolkitRC ADP100 power supply for £15 that plugs straight into the Q6 Nano. 

 

The whole setup is about a 8-9 quid more expensive than a basic (genuine) Imax B6 WITHOUT a power supply, but can supply double the wattage if needs be. Only limiting factor is that the Q6 Nano can only handle up to 4S LiPo's instead of the B6s 6S, but it's not an issue for my usage.

[Hashe8848]

Thanks for the tips, I'm going to have to buy a new battery, do you have any recommendations for a nunchuck 2500-3000mah lipo?

[Speedbird_666]

45 minutes ago, Hashe8848 said:

Thanks for the tips, I'm going to have to buy a new battery, do you have any recommendations for a nunchuck 2500-3000mah lipo?

 

I would ordinarily recommend Turnigy NanoTech from Hobbyking, but the UK warehouse is low on stock at the moment. 

 

The biggest thin nunchuck they have is 1400mah but with a 15C rating. They have 1300mah with a 25C rating. Both are 2s (don't run 3s in a Nuprol). But they are super cheap, less than £7, so buying 2 or 3 won't break the bank. 

 

I've been using NanoTechs for years in airsoft and RC.