Ad_ Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 In another discussion here TechT Gun Sav was highly recommended to me as a cylinder grease, so I bought some to try out. I've now tested it along with some other greases I have for comparison, and I'm posting the results here in case anyone else is interested. These are the greases I tested: Tokyo Marui silicone grease Systema cylinder grease Super Lube silicone grease TechT Gun Sav The Marui silicone grease and Systema cylinder grease I've had knocking about for years, both seem ok but I've mainly been using the Marui grease in my guns (or a combination of the two). I bought the Super Lube late last year from AK2M4 to test as the Marui grease was almost all used up - this is my first time using it. I used a Marui P90TR with the following upgrades to test them: Prometheus purple hop rubber & bucking Guarder air seal nozzle Guarder enhanced steel cylinder head Guarder chromed cylinder Deep Fire aluminium piston head with 'super' O-ring Guarder SP90 spring Deep Fire (I think) bearing spring guide Guarder steel bushings IRF2804 MOSFET Blade fuse Deans connector For each test, the cylinder set was disassembled, the cylinder was degreased and the cylinder head, piston head and piston head O-ring were wiped down thoroughly to clean off the previous grease/oil before applying the new grease. Next, some high viscosity silicone grease was applied over and just behind the cylinder head O-rings and the cylinder and cylinder head were reassembled. The cylinder was lubricated using the grease to be tested. The piston O-ring was coated with a fine amount of silicone oil before fitting it back on the piston head, and then a fine amount of the grease to be tested was also applied to/slightly behind the piston head O-ring. After reassembling everything the gun was dry fired without the upper receiver to check it and help even out the grease. Before testing, a standard magazine loaded with some BioSphere 0.2g BBs was inserted and a few shots were fired to further even out the grease. 10 shots were then fired through my Xcortech X3500 chrono and the results were recorded. These are the results: Marui Silicone Grease: Min 310 fps Max 315 fps Avg 313.59 fps Systema Cylinder Grease: Min 308.5 fps Max 313.1 fps Avg 310.6 fps Super Lube silicone grease: Min 318.9 fps Max 323.5 fps Avg 321.03 fps TechT Gun Sav: Min 318.7 fps Max 322.3 fps Avg 320.68 fps Using the Marui grease as the baseline the Systema grease actually seems a little worse, although its lacklustre performance could be due to its age (and I always found it worked best in combination with other greases anyway). The Super Lube and Gun Sav do offer a notable improvement over the Marui grease though and seem to be about comparable to each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporters Adolf Hamster Posted May 20, 2020 Supporters Share Posted May 20, 2020 seems to be you're getting relatively consistent variation in the ~±5fps range, is it possible that you're getting this from a leak elsewhere in the system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad_ Posted May 20, 2020 Author Share Posted May 20, 2020 Possibly, but it's also possible that it's due to variation in the weight of the BBs as they're not all going to be exactly the same weight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad_ Posted May 20, 2020 Author Share Posted May 20, 2020 I weighed a bunch of the BioSphere BBs and filtered out any that seemed to be under/overweight, or the scales seemed "uncertain" about (i.e. borderline), then fired another 10 through the chrono. It has narrowed it down a bit: 321.8 321.3 323 321.9 321.9 319.8 321.8 320.6 320.3 322.3 Min 319.8 Max 323 Avg 321.47 If I had better scales I could probably narrow it down further. Variation in diameter around each BB will also make a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davegolf Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 Good testing! I was probably the TechT peddler 😁 Did you also note any differences on lubricant displacement / migration / film remaining / ongoing lubrication, endurance testing I suppose. I found the TechT to have great staying power and longevity in all things air seal related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad_ Posted May 20, 2020 Author Share Posted May 20, 2020 41 minutes ago, Davegolf said: Good testing! I was probably the TechT peddler 😁 Yes, you were 41 minutes ago, Davegolf said: Did you also note any differences on lubricant displacement / migration / film remaining / ongoing lubrication, endurance testing I suppose. I found the TechT to have great staying power and longevity in all things air seal related. I didn't do any kind of extended/long term tests; these were all done yesterday except for the Gun Sav which was tested today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davegolf Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 It is genuinely insane slippery, squash it between your fingers lol, Has a very strong film strength, something you only see in very expensive motorsport oils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mawky Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 Nice test. Ordered myself some to try as well. I'm not really happy with the silicon grease from Aim Top I bought last time. Feels more like Tec7 than anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad_ Posted May 21, 2020 Author Share Posted May 21, 2020 23 hours ago, Davegolf said: It is genuinely insane slippery, squash it between your fingers lol, Has a very strong film strength, something you only see in very expensive motorsport oils The Gun Sav does feel much lighter/thinner and more slippery between my fingers, whereas the Super Lube feels more like other silicone greases... but as the results show it's more complicated than just how it feels I cleaned out & regreased my P90RD's gearbox earlier as it hasn't been done for a long time (at least a couple of years & it's fired many tens of thousands of shots in that time). Before starting I tested it with unsorted BioSphere 0.2g BBs: 336.9 336.1 338.9 336.8 336.6 336.8 337 338.5 335.4 334.1 Min 334.1 Max 338.9 Avg 336.71 It was very difficult to pick between Gun Sav and Super Lube, but I went with Gun Sav. After everything was cleaned up & regreased I tested it again: 329.8 330.7 331.8 331.2 329.4 332.9 328.9 331.8 332.2 331.9 Min 328.9 Max 332.9 Avg 331.06 So with the TechT Gun Sav I actually lost a bit of power compared to the old grease. I then took it apart again, cleaned, regreased and re-tested with Super Lube: 323.9 325.9 325.9 326.8 326.6 325.6 324.2 326.2 325.1 323.3 Min 323.3 Max 326.8 Avg 325.35 More power loss... This will require more investigation. It may just be that these greases just need time to settle in, although my previous setup didn't require that. I'll get some more Marui grease so I can retry the previous setup (Systema grease applied to the cylinder with Marui silicone grease on the piston) and I'll also try mixing Super Lube + Gun Sav in a similar manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceni Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 If you are feeling adventurous then you could test the grease I've been using for years. It's a basic Ptfe/silicon grease, Available in bulk if you wanted. And it's food safe.https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SYNTHETIC-SILICONE-GREASE-WITH-TEFLON-50g-TIN-2HT-PLASTIC-SAFE-LOW-FRICTION/391399159157?hash=item5b21353575:g:fDUAAOSw6fBclQTY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davegolf Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 I do find no matter what you use it takes a good few mags of full auto to settle things in, air pressure to push lube around etc PTFE is always a good slider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad_ Posted May 21, 2020 Author Share Posted May 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, Iceni said: If you are feeling adventurous then you could test the grease I've been using for years. It's a basic Ptfe/silicon grease, Available in bulk if you wanted. And it's food safe.https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SYNTHETIC-SILICONE-GREASE-WITH-TEFLON-50g-TIN-2HT-PLASTIC-SAFE-LOW-FRICTION/391399159157?hash=item5b21353575:g:fDUAAOSw6fBclQTY That looks like it would probably produce results similar to Super Lube - https://www.ak2m4.co.uk/internal-parts/grease/super-lube-lubrication-grease-5ml-syringe 6 minutes ago, Davegolf said: I do find no matter what you use it takes a good few mags of full auto to settle things in, air pressure to push lube around etc PTFE is always a good slider I don't think it's likely to change that much though, but I'll have to test them more. The previous grease setup I used didn't vary much from the initial application up until I cleaned it out earlier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaBear Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 Great comparison of greases. I've tried Systema Grease, Abbey grease and the Superlube grease. I've found the abbey grease to be disappointing the Systema much better and the SuperLube outstanding. I get a 5fps variation too but that's probably I've not given the gearbox time to settle in.... Oh I get the odd lowball -10fps which I can't explain..but that's after I've done full auto and switch back to semi... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad_ Posted May 21, 2020 Author Share Posted May 21, 2020 Much of the shot-to-shot variation seems to be due to weight/size/shape varying from BB to BB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davegolf Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 I agree, shooting Bio's are also much more variable than non Bio's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad_ Posted May 22, 2020 Author Share Posted May 22, 2020 Some are very consistent, like the BioSpheres - they're the only ones I have that actually met the 5.95mm +/- 0.01mm tolerance, which is why I used them for these tests. Their weight is a little more variable but not enough to be an issue; it's just a real shame the BioSphere BBs all seem to be ruined by air bubbles 😕 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davegolf Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 I used to us Green Devil bios but rocking horse turds last time I hunted around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad_ Posted May 22, 2020 Author Share Posted May 22, 2020 I currently use ASG Open Blasters, but I've not been particularly impressed by any of the bio BBs I've tested so far. I've only tested 3 brands though & I'm planning to get some others to try. Anyway I regreased my P90RD with Gun Sav, going to see if & how the results change after it's had time to break in a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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