Double Eagle M904g – Aka the Original Q Honey Badger

[Point Two Balls]

Hi All.

 

After reading all this, I’ve now got an M509G in the arsenal and am waiting for an M509L to come into stock somewhere!

 

In the mean time and for reference, once the small un-windy hand guard bolt thing has been removed and the hand guard itself pulled off, other hand guards fit!

 

The one from my SSR4 goes straight on 😜

 

Will look at the barrel nut and inner barrels soon and report back on what I find. 
 

Pat.

[RostokMcSpoons]

Looking good, @Point Two Balls  ... hope you enjoy your new gnu as much as I've enjoyed my DE so far.
You seem to have got your model number a bit awry though, unless there's some new models out there... looks like the 904G ...?

[Point Two Balls]

Oops - yep - numbers all wrong. Meant M904G and M904L.

 

 

[RostokMcSpoons]

Can I suggest you consider the M908 series if you're thinking of another DE...?
I know the 904G tends to be the cheapest in the range (£150 at Patrolbase today), my recent look at others that are available suggests the prices have squashed up together, so a 904L might well be around the £180-190 mark.

For a little bit more (£230), you could have this...

https://bbguns4less.co.uk/products/double-eagle-m908a-ar15-rifle-with-falcon-system-in-black.html

 

The 908A has the long barrel like the 904L, but it's got two potentially worthwhile features:
 

1) It's all metal.  Ok, if you want the lightest weight, then polymer is the way to go.  I like the feel of steel (or pot metal, or aluminium) though, and it's not that much heavier.

2) The PTS-style stock.  Plenty of space for bigger batteries - nunchuck style for instance.  I upgraded my 906 to a PTS stock and it allowed me to fit a chunky Titan 11.1 3000mAh battery in there, saving a lot of fiddling around that I had with smaller batteries in the DE stock.

 

You might not consider either of these things important - but just thought you might be interested.
 

 

[Point Two Balls]

Thanks for the info - but it is the Polymer that I want and I much prefer the PDW stock.

 

I love the front half of my SSR4 and the receiver, pistol grip and the sound of the M904G.

 

A new polymer hand guard from Novvy is only 15 euros and I planned to fit a new barrel and bucking to the M904G anyway - if I add the Novvy barrel and a cheap 2" barrel extension, I have everything I need in a gun... for now.

 

And for a bit more reference if anyone needs to know in future (google pointed me to this thread when I was making my enquiries), the outer barrel and barrel nut threads of the M904G are standard so easy to swap in the future if needed.

 

The M904G barrel nut is a bit weird though (in a good way as it helps support the handrail) and needs a pin spanner to removed it.

 

The second pic has the nut from the SSR4 screwed onto it for reference.

 

Pat.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dan Robinson]

Must admit I'd prefer the PTS stock over the one on the gun... Shame I couldn't take it out this weekend, but the boy wants to switch to two weekends on, two off so we can stick with both AWA and Spec Ops.

 

SWMBO hasn't noticed the new box in the garage so far.

 

 

[Krisz]

Anyone tried to hop heavier BB's with the stock hop-up unit? Like 0.40g?

 

I really into the longer handguard versions it could be a super DMR base.

Ty.

Edited February 26, 2023 by Krisz

[RostokMcSpoons]

3 hours ago, Krisz said:

Anyone tried to hop heavier BB's with the stock hop-up unit? Like 0.40g?

 

I really into the longer handguard versions it could be a super DMR base.

Ty.

 

I can try tomorrow, I've got some 0.32s and 0.40s. my gun still has the stock hop unit but I did change to a macaron 50deg and omega nub.  And an m105 spring so it's on the nail at 350fps.

 

I can only shoot to 15m, but I'll test to see if it can over hop noticeably.

[Stevobeavo]

Are we talking stock bucking and nub? If so my stock DE UTR 45 that is the same as the 90* range internally couldn't lift .3

 

I've swapped all my DE guns to a zci hop unit with maple leaf bucking of some sort and nub and can now lift .3 plus easily 

[Krisz]

8 hours ago, RostokMcSpoons said:

 

I can try tomorrow, I've got some 0.32s and 0.40s. my gun still has the stock hop unit but I did change to a macaron 50deg and omega nub.  And an m105 spring so it's on the nail at 350fps.

 

I can only shoot to 15m, but I'll test to see if it can over hop noticeably.

Ty.

6 hours ago, Stevobeavo said:

Are we talking stock bucking and nub? If so my stock DE UTR 45 that is the same as the 90* range internally couldn't lift .3

 

I've swapped all my DE guns to a zci hop unit with maple leaf bucking of some sort and nub and can now lift .3 plus easily 

Any kind of ZCI hop unit does the job or I need a specific one? Cheers.

Edited February 27, 2023 by Krisz

[RostokMcSpoons]

Ok, just had a quick test fire. 

 

1) 0.40's - with almost all the hop applied, it kept the shots flat out to near the target, and then a little ballistic drop right at the end.  So although I'd quite like to see how it runs at greater range for-shits-and-giggles, it was always going to a real stretch for it to be usable at full-auto site limits.

 

2) 0.32's - over-hopped (thought we're talking a gentle upward curve rather than moon-shot stuff, so yeah they're no problem.   I'll be running with 0.32s at my next skirmish to see how it performs and whether the slightly more expensive ammo gets better consistency shot-to-shot.
My gut feel was instantly that 0.34's might be worth a go too.
 

3) Chrono test.  I banged a few shots through the chrono just to make sure it was up at the same power levels I had when I last chrono'd (4 weeks ago?).   That was 345fps on 0.20's.
Well, it came a s abit of a shock to see 210fps, but then I realised I'd left lots of hop on.  Dialed that back, didn't make much difference for the 0.32s, it went up to 220fps.   The site limit being 261fps.
So I tried my 0.28's, that came back at 260-265fps - should be nearer 290fps.
It looks like the last couple of skirmishes, where I've pumped somewhere between 5 and 7 thousand BBs (heavy trigger finger!) through it, have taken a toll.   It might just need a bit of lube, it might need a new spring.  I've got a spare M105 so it'll be a quick job to find out.   

(The gun was running great on the field on Saturday though, which goes to show that power ain't everything)

I think that makes my results with the BBs just a 'work-in-progress' because a bit more power might generate a bit more back spin, and hence more lift, but the stock hop unit is fairly decent, I think.  (The standard hop rubber... not so much!)
 

[Fatboy40]

The DE stock hop unit is not that great, the arm lets it down, and you're downright buggered if you've got the arm that has the nub embedded in it (the figure eight nub where the top of it is inside the arm).

 

I've a Maxx Model M4A-PRO in my M904E, and a ZCI rotary in my M908A, with the M4A-PRO with the solid metal / TDC nub lifting absolutely anything you want it to with minimal pressure so you don't strip the BB of its energy.

 

I've a Retro Arms CNC AR15 hop unit on the way for the M908A and I'll then be able to directly compare the two (the Maxx does have some lovely features, BB latch + window + numbered dial etc., but the Retro Arms has the same solid metal / TDC nub which is what I'm after really).

[RostokMcSpoons]

I've got the figure of 8 arm, and just dropped the omega nub in under it (after having a panic about it, see my 'fettling the 906' thread elsewhere)

 

So I'm sure your fancy hop units are better than the stock unit - without a shadow of a doubt - but the stock one ain't that bad if it can work with the better nub and rubber (for the massive investment of ~£10) to lift 0.32s

 

Edit: the cheaper RA hop unit is £30 but the Maxx is £70.  Ouch. 

 

I had another go with the gun, put up a target and blasted some of the 0.32s at it to see how it did.  The Eotech was off-zero (having been taken off and then put back on) but the group was a very nice 2" / 5cm group at 15m, pretty good considering it was a red dot rather than a scope, and there was a bit of wind.  I think I was at 3/3.5" when I last did that with 0.28s

 

Is there something to the idea that hop rubbers "wear in"?

 

Edited February 27, 2023 by RostokMcSpoons

[Krisz]

10 hours ago, RostokMcSpoons said:

Ok, just had a quick test fire. 

 

1) 0.40's - with almost all the hop applied, it kept the shots flat out to near the target, and then a little ballistic drop right at the end.  So although I'd quite like to see how it runs at greater range for-shits-and-giggles, it was always going to a real stretch for it to be usable at full-auto site limits.

 

2) 0.32's - over-hopped (thought we're talking a gentle upward curve rather than moon-shot stuff, so yeah they're no problem.   I'll be running with 0.32s at my next skirmish to see how it performs and whether the slightly more expensive ammo gets better consistency shot-to-shot.
My gut feel was instantly that 0.34's might be worth a go too.
 

3) Chrono test.  I banged a few shots through the chrono just to make sure it was up at the same power levels I had when I last chrono'd (4 weeks ago?).   That was 345fps on 0.20's.
Well, it came a s abit of a shock to see 210fps, but then I realised I'd left lots of hop on.  Dialed that back, didn't make much difference for the 0.32s, it went up to 220fps.   The site limit being 261fps.
So I tried my 0.28's, that came back at 260-265fps - should be nearer 290fps.
It looks like the last couple of skirmishes, where I've pumped somewhere between 5 and 7 thousand BBs (heavy trigger finger!) through it, have taken a toll.   It might just need a bit of lube, it might need a new spring.  I've got a spare M105 so it'll be a quick job to find out.   

(The gun was running great on the field on Saturday though, which goes to show that power ain't everything)

I think that makes my results with the BBs just a 'work-in-progress' because a bit more power might generate a bit more back spin, and hence more lift, but the stock hop unit is fairly decent, I think.  (The standard hop rubber... not so much!)
 

People call their hits if you use 0.30g at longer distances? Everyone says just buy the heaviest BB you can afford (and hop) for sniper/DMR purposes. But 0.40g is like crazy expensive compared to 0.28 or 0.30.

Edited February 27, 2023 by Krisz

[RostokMcSpoons]

11 hours ago, Krisz said:

People call their hits if you use 0.30g at longer distances? Everyone says just buy the heaviest BB you can afford (and hop) for sniper/DMR purposes. But 0.40g is like crazy expensive compared to 0.28 or 0.30.

 

I tell you what, when it hurts to get shot it seems to encourage them to call 'hit' just to stop you shooting at them.  So 0.25s at minimum, but the bigger the better.

 

0.32 bio's are £18 for 3000 at Spec Ops, whereas a bag of 1000 Geoffs 0.40s are close to that (can't remember how much) for a third of the count,  so yeah, big jump in price. 

You'd not be doing much 'suppressive fire' on full auto if you're pumping out the sniper weight ammo, but it has to be said you'll go through such a relatively small amount of ammo when you're only in semi, that really compared to the cost of the day, and all the guns and kit you've invested in, just pay for it! 

 

Edited February 28, 2023 by RostokMcSpoons

[Egon_247]

20 hours ago, RostokMcSpoons said:

Ok, stuff ..

 

Mine short stroked itself after messing around with some bigger springs. The last tooth of the sector gear came off and I found it in my piston head.... 

Back up to power again but after I finished laughing I was a bit concerned. Seems ok now though....

[RostokMcSpoons]

7 hours ago, Egon_247 said:

 

Mine short stroked itself after messing around with some bigger springs. The last tooth of the sector gear came off and I found it in my piston head.... 

Back up to power again but after I finished laughing I was a bit concerned. Seems ok now though....

 

I'm not intending to crack open the gearbox, but once I take the spring out I'll be sure to check and listen for anything rattling around inside

 

Edit:  Took my lunchtime to have a meddle with the gun... I chucked some 0.20s into the mag and chrono'd it at ~315fps. 
It took ages to get the stock tube off thanks to that awkward hex head bolt.  I managed to loosen it with a long hex key, but it was painful because I could only make quarter turns with it (the L-shape key was just long enough to reach the cutout in the tube).  I tried taping a hex bit to a screwdriver, failed... in the end I took a piece of soft wood dowel from a scent diffuser, and jammed that into the bolt head.  It gave enough grip to let me undo it at last.  (So that's my handy hint for all chaps who don't have extra long allen keys etc to hand)

 

Anyway, inspection of the barrel showed it was dirty, and that the feed lips were getting tatty.  Time for a new hop rubber. 
I installed a G&G green (50deg) in there, cleaned out the barrel and re-tested both on chrono (319fps, nicely consistent, but still low), and in the garden.  It's over-hopping 0.20's at the lowest hop setting.  I think the Omega nub is incorrectly positioned under the hop arm.   I'll have another go after work!

If I've still got a low fps, I'll change in the new M105 spring, see what that does.

Edited February 28, 2023 by RostokMcSpoons

[Fatboy40]

9 hours ago, RostokMcSpoons said:

It took ages to get the stock tube off thanks to that awkward hex head bolt.

 

Get one of these...

 

https://www.screwfix.com/p/magnusson-1-4-hex-magnetic-screwdriver-bit-holder/7698v

 

... and the buffer tube is off in the blink of an eye 👍

[RostokMcSpoons]

2 hours ago, Fatboy40 said:

 

Get one of these...

 

https://www.screwfix.com/p/magnusson-1-4-hex-magnetic-screwdriver-bit-holder/7698v

 

... and the buffer tube is off in the blink of an eye 👍

 

Cheers, I'd ordered these off Amazon... 
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0BSBT6DTD/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

But of course I've now found a t-handle bit holder in my toolbox.   I'll leave the Amazon order to complete though - might as well have those for my electric screwdriver and drill, might come in handy!

Edited February 28, 2023 by RostokMcSpoons

[Krisz]

On 28/02/2023 at 21:41, RostokMcSpoons said:

 

Cheers, I'd ordered these off Amazon... 
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0BSBT6DTD/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

But of course I've now found a t-handle bit holder in my toolbox.   I'll leave the Amazon order to complete though - might as well have those for my electric screwdriver and drill, might come in handy!

What's your effective range on 0.30g? Forgot to ask last time. I may cheap out on ammo for now and I'll see how it goes first. 

Ty.

[RostokMcSpoons]

21 minutes ago, Krisz said:

What's your effective range on 0.30g? Forgot to ask last time. I may cheap out on ammo for now and I'll see how it goes first. 

Ty.

I've very nearly bought a laser range finder, just so I can find out.  Because I am not really sure.  I've used 0.28's normally.  I'm going to guess it's reaching out past 50m with a decent chance of a torso hit with a bit of semi-auto spamming, but hey, it's a truism around these parts - that airsoft meters aren't the same as real meters.   I could be being optimistic or pessimistic because I can't really see what's happening at extreme range.
The testing range at Spec Ops only has a couple of markers out at 30m and 40m (with no verification they're correctly placed).  So it's all guess work for me, unfortunately.

 

[Krisz]

50 minutes ago, RostokMcSpoons said:

I've very nearly bought a laser range finder, just so I can find out.  Because I am not really sure.  I've used 0.28's normally.  I'm going to guess it's reaching out past 50m with a decent chance of a torso hit with a bit of semi-auto spamming, but hey, it's a truism around these parts - that airsoft meters aren't the same as real meters.   I could be being optimistic or pessimistic because I can't really see what's happening at extreme range.
The testing range at Spec Ops only has a couple of markers out at 30m and 40m (with no verification they're correctly placed).  So it's all guess work for me, unfortunately.

 

Is it internally stock or you changed hop-up unit/barrel/bucking?

Cheers.

[RostokMcSpoons]

Maple Leaf Macaron 50deg (light green) + Omega nub + M105 ASG spring

 

That was it.  

It's now over-hopping 0.28s for some reason (see my M906 tinkering thread)

[Dan Robinson]

1 hour ago, RostokMcSpoons said:

The testing range at Spec Ops only has a couple of markers out at 30m and 40m (with no verification they're correctly placed

 

Won't be at the next game because it's swmbo's 50th, but I have a laser distance finder somewhere.   Will try and remember it.

 

Not had a test fire yet, but I think the magnifier is too much.  Pretty impressed with build. 

 

 

Edited March 2, 2023 by Dan Robinson

[RostokMcSpoons]

Dan, the tagged finder would be great to bring along, cheers!

In the meantime how far do you think it is from the edge of BBC to the church?  I was slinging BBs through my choice of window on Saturday.