Orga 6.23mm with ER hop, a potential long range BEAST?

[inSUBout]

So, as the question says:

 

I have heard that the best type of hop up in airsoft for long range is R hop, or even better, ER hop.. And yes I understand it will be a lot of work to get it right and working well.

 

I have also heard, a wide bore barrel such As a orga magnus 6.23mm 455 barrel increases long range accuracy a lot also, even though more power is needed in your gun as more air is needed around the BB with the wider barrel.

 

My question is, is this the best type of upgrades I can do to my rifle for long range distance?

My rifle is a gas powered ghk g5, with carbine kit

[Aengus]

Unless you're going to be using .4's I don't think the er hop is for you

[inSUBout]

I have hears that it should still work well with 0.25g, I could be wrong l.

I should also add I will be converting the rifle to DMR / single shot only

[proffrink]

The ORGA Magnus 6.32 is brilliant - would highly recommend. I'm using the 500mm one. The Prometheus Delta Strike 6.20 is also alright, but its plastic hop window was a bit of a silly decision by them. It was meant to make installing flat hops and R-Hop patches easier by allowing modification of the window and better adhesion to RTV (the gasket sealant you're meant to use with the patches) but in the end it just wears a bit quicker. I'm using it in my M4 right now (I think ~450mm) and it seems to be fine.

 

To get an EV R-Hop in there you will need to lengthen the hop window. Even if you do that, you would severely over-hop a .25g; this is the exact problem I had with my M4 DMR and had to switch up to .30g - I'd say that's the minimum for any R-Hop really but I know some would disagree with me. I'd recommend just a regular R-Hop patch and .30s. if it's a DMR then you won't be going through much ammo anyway, right?

 

As for power, there's not a huge amount you can do with a GBBR but the GHK mags should be putting out enough gas anyway - if you have an NPAS installed then you can quite easily get that thing up to just shy of 500fps on a stock barrel. I'm using the GHK gen 2 M4 magazines and they can certainly put out enough power with the NPAS tuned correctly.

 

Edit

Changed some fings

[TheGrover]

using the carbine kit, i guess you aren't going for a DMR, but rather want an accurate and versatile rifle.

 

I use a standard length G5 with a 260mm Orga Magnus (mock supressor to cover the 50mm or so that protrudes beyond the outer barrel) with a prommy purple bucking flat hopped with a firefly nub. i shoot 0,3s (using the last of my Nuprols now before swapping over to Blaster Devils to see the difference) and shoot through a fairly standard Chinese 4x32 when my target is more than 20m away.

 

I cannot recommend my setup enough, considering a GBBR like the G5 is never going to win any accuracy awards, my G5 is shooting more accurately than my AEG ICS L85, and it really does justify the magnified sight, allowing me to shoot with much greater precision. if the first shot misses slightly, i can see how the BB flies and adjust for a couple of follow up shots, by which time the target is either hit or they've got into cover

 

I haven't tried an R hop or anything fancy like that, but the Orga makes installing a flat hop about as easy as possible, you don't need to modify the bucking at all, just turn it 90 degrees and put a different nub in there. I'm actually going to flat hop the L96 I'm picking up soon as its been converted to use an AEG barrel, bucking and nub.

 

Im also thinking about making a spacer for my barrel. I noticed during my last skirmish that the G5 allows the barrel to move ever so slightly inside the outer barrel. it wouldn't make any difference on an AEG but with the recoil of a GBBR it might make a big difference. ill be trying it on mine ready for my next skirmish (bring on AI 500!)

[Dannn]

I was in under the impression that if an R hop is fitted correctly when 0 hop is set nothing happens, exactly like I have mine set, as soon as I put a tiny amount of hop on it makes a massive affect, with full hop it sends .43 welts skywards.

Which is over kill on a g36 lol

[proffrink]

Yeh, it won't hop at all if installed properly, however if you have the proper nub set up then when you do turn it on it has about 3 times the surface area of a standard hop - even at next to nothing it's going to skyrocket .25s.

 

It can be done, but one must remember that a heavier projectile will conserve energy more efficiently during flight. Even with the a good amount of spin, a .25g isn't likely to be going more than 40 metres.

[Guest PT247]

How are you going to up the fps on the G5 to get the most out of the new barrel? I ask because I fitted a WBB (Prommy 6.2mm) to my HPA'd G5 and to get 350fps I had to use almost 200psi which blew apart my lower receiver. If you fit the high power nozzle you may be able to get the fps up high enough to go DMR, I am now running an extended PDI 6.01 TBB in mine and if running with gas mags on Nuprol 4.0 it would be firing at 500fps.

[TheGrover]

I wouldn't worry about your fps. Mine is fine with the standard nozzle and propane. I actually get a higher fps with heavier bbs, with about 260 on a 0.2g and about 280 with a 0.3g. Go figure

 

All you need to do it break down your nozzle assembly, give the nozzle o-rings a good dose of silicone, and lube up the cylinder in the bolt. This makes the seal inside the bolt almost perfect and gave me about 50 fps more

[Dannn]

I can't understand how it's possible to get a higher fps with heavier bbs, it's absolutely impossible for exactly the same set up to push a heavier bb at a higher foot per second, it has to move slower, it's basic physics that a set amount of energy cannot move a heavier object faster than a lighter one.

[TheGrover]

I didn't get it either, but the chrono doesn't lie

 

I think that it has something to do with pressure escaping around the bb in the barrel crown (Orga barrels have very long crowns) but I don't k is for sure

[n1ckh]

I didn't get it either, but the chrono doesn't lie

 

I think that it has something to do with pressure escaping around the bb in the barrel crown (Orga barrels have very long crowns) but I don't k is for sure

Depends what chrono you use, 1 site I started at said my cm16 was hot but was brand new so I changed the spring for an m90 so went to another site & it was less than 300, all this was on .20

[proffrink]

Heavily simplified, there are two things that contribute towards heavier BBs 'going faster' in the same barrel with the same amount of air:

 

a. Stays in the barrel slightly longer - more time for the air to act on the BB resulting in more energy transfer and a higher muzzle velocity.

b. The energy a heavy projectile has decays slower dduring flight than a lighter one with the same amount of energy when it leaves the barrel. Therefore, a target further away will feel a lot more of the energy - this is one of the key contributors towards the hate HPA and GBBR users get as heavier ammunition has the impression of hitting you harder than it should. The fact is that most AEGs are running .20g and .25g and they decay quicker.

E.g. If you were to stand right infront of the barrel of one gun firing a .20g at 350fps, and one firing .43g at 265fps they would feel the same (both ~1.14J). If you were to get hit from 30m away by those two same guns then - despite them having the same energy when they leave the barrel - the .43g will have more energy than the .20g when it reaches you.

[inSUBout]

How are you going to up the fps on the G5 to get the most out of the new barrel? I ask because I fitted a WBB (Prommy 6.2mm) to my HPA'd G5 and to get 350fps I had to use almost 200psi which blew apart my lower receiver. If you fit the high power nozzle you may be able to get the fps up high enough to go DMR, I am now running an extended PDI 6.01 TBB in mine and if running with gas mags on Nuprol 4.0 it would be firing at 500fps.

 

 

Yeh, it won't hop at all if installed properly, however if you have the proper nub set up then when you do turn it on it has about 3 times the surface area of a standard hop - even at next to nothing it's going to skyrocket .25s.

 

It can be done, but one must remember that a heavier projectile will conserve energy more efficiently during flight. Even with the a good amount of spin, a .25g isn't likely to be going more than 40 metres.

 

 

I was in under the impression that if an R hop is fitted correctly when 0 hop is set nothing happens, exactly like I have mine set, as soon as I put a tiny amount of hop on it makes a massive affect, with full hop it sends .43 welts skywards.

Which is over kill on a g36 lol

 

 

using the carbine kit, i guess you aren't going for a DMR, but rather want an accurate and versatile rifle.

 

I use a standard length G5 with a 260mm Orga Magnus (mock supressor to cover the 50mm or so that protrudes beyond the outer barrel) with a prommy purple bucking flat hopped with a firefly nub. i shoot 0,3s (using the last of my Nuprols now before swapping over to Blaster Devils to see the difference) and shoot through a fairly standard Chinese 4x32 when my target is more than 20m away.

 

I cannot recommend my setup enough, considering a GBBR like the G5 is never going to win any accuracy awards, my G5 is shooting more accurately than my AEG ICS L85, and it really does justify the magnified sight, allowing me to shoot with much greater precision. if the first shot misses slightly, i can see how the BB flies and adjust for a couple of follow up shots, by which time the target is either hit or they've got into cover

 

I haven't tried an R hop or anything fancy like that, but the Orga makes installing a flat hop about as easy as possible, you don't need to modify the bucking at all, just turn it 90 degrees and put a different nub in there. I'm actually going to flat hop the L96 I'm picking up soon as its been converted to use an AEG barrel, bucking and nub.

 

Im also thinking about making a spacer for my barrel. I noticed during my last skirmish that the G5 allows the barrel to move ever so slightly inside the outer barrel. it wouldn't make any difference on an AEG but with the recoil of a GBBR it might make a big difference. ill be trying it on mine ready for my next skirmish (bring on AI 500!)

 

 

The ORGA Magnus 6.32 is brilliant - would highly recommend. I'm using the 500mm one. The Prometheus Delta Strike 6.20 is also alright, but its plastic hop window was a bit of a silly decision by them. It was meant to make installing flat hops and R-Hop patches easier by allowing modification of the window and better adhesion to RTV (the gasket sealant you're meant to use with the patches) but in the end it just wears a bit quicker. I'm using it in my M4 right now (I think ~450mm) and it seems to be fine.

 

To get an EV R-Hop in there you will need to lengthen the hop window. Even if you do that, you would severely over-hop a .25g; this is the exact problem I had with my M4 DMR and had to switch up to .30g - I'd say that's the minimum for any R-Hop really but I know some would disagree with me. I'd recommend just a regular R-Hop patch and .30s. if it's a DMR then you won't be going through much ammo anyway, right?

 

As for power, there's not a huge amount you can do with a GBBR but the GHK mags should be putting out enough gas anyway - if you have an NPAS installed then you can quite easily get that thing up to just shy of 500fps on a stock barrel. I'm using the GHK gen 2 M4 magazines and they can certainly put out enough power with the NPAS tuned correctly.

 

Edit

Changed some fings

Thanks for all the replies guys, it's all very interesting.

 

Yep, I chose the Carbine kit for my GHK G5 over the DMR kit as I know I can buy outer barrel extensions or mock supressors if needed later on. In terms of regulating the FPS for when im changing barrels for something like the wide Orga Magnus 6.23, I may have to take out my 1 joule nozzel and put in the original factory nozzle in... or, GHK make the high power nozzle, which should get the fps to around 350, and if I install the single shot DMR trigger assembly adapter thing, sites should allow something like 400-450...I think.

 

from your comments I think I will need to stop using 0.25g, especially if I am going to attempt installing an R hop (ER hop is probably too much hop isnt it). I'll have to look at 0.30g BB's and above.

 

So to sum up the results from this topic/question, what do you make of my plans below.

 

Gun at the moment: GHK g5 currently with carbine extension kit and 1 joule nozzle (i have been told the NPAS/adjustable nozzle can cause fps inconsistency)

 

plans:

• buy Orga 6.23 inner barrel, possibly 300-400mm length max, with outer barrel extension and maybe mock supressor. I will fit this and test it out with various BB weights, from 0.25g up to 0.40, and see how it goes, accuracy wise. I also put a little PTFE tape around my current inner barrel and will do on this Orga barrel as GHK owners may know, the barrel wobbles ever so slightly against the outer barrel, causing the BB's to go off to one or both sides at long range- with the heavy recoil etc- it helped me a lot.
• If hop up could be improved, I will buy R hop kit, lengthen the window on the barrel etc....or get a good tech guy to do it properly, we'll see
• during these tests I'll keep the FPS round the sweet spot for sites, 350 and if DMR 400 etc, changing the nozzles and trigger assembly

 

bam-

[proffrink]

No need to lengthen the hop window unless you want to shoot over ~.35g - an R-Hop will lift everything between .25g to .35g - you'll likely need a mill or a very steady set of hands and a Dremel to lengthen the window and it's not worth it.