JG M16A1 low range???

[ronin677]

Hi all,

 

I've just bought a JG M16A1 from Taiwanguns and it is a nice weapon with the exception that I am only getting about 90 feet range at the moment.

 

I have cleaned the inner barrel of gunk and changed the hop up unit to a decent one. Still only getting about 90 feet range. Its interesting to note that the hop up isn't having a noticeable effect on the rounds!!! I've changed and played with hop ups quite a bit and so am confident in my abilities with this.

 

I'm using 0.28g bb's at the moment and wondered if they are just too heavy for the rifle.

 

what do you guys think?

 

[Guest PT247]

what fps on 0.2g BBs does it have?

[ronin677]

Taiwangun have supplied it firing at 340fps but I have not had the chance to test it yet. Although they have tested and recorded about 10 shot, all in the 340fps range

[beastmode]

I'd change the bucking and nub. For something like a Tm one or a madbull red. Which I've had good results from. Flat hop it. And if you can change the barrel to a miracle barrel 6.06 which I've had good results from too. This should increase your range.

[ronin677]

I'm now about to order a new hop up unit (I've heard TM units fit). I'll also get a Madbull rubber.

 

I've never attempted a flat hop, how do I do this?

[Hudson]

Be aware that Madbull buckings can be a right PITA to fit sometimes; they're thicker than most & so can get stuck easily when installing. The nubs are also vastly oversized which can lead to jamming if you don't replace it with one smaller. (But then you'll need to make sure the nub is hard enough to actually exert enough hop without deforming).

If I were you, before ordering I would check the nub you have installed to see if it's simply too soft & replace it with something better.
Remove the barrel & hop unit and look down the barrel as you increase hop to see if it's actually putting sufficient hop on.

I've had similar problems where this has been the cause.

[ronin677]

Be aware that Madbull buckings can be a right PITA to fit sometimes; they're thicker than most & so can get stuck easily when installing. The nubs are also vastly oversized which can lead to jamming if you don't replace it with one smaller. (But then you'll need to make sure the nub is hard enough to actually exert enough hop without deforming).

 

If I were you, before ordering I would check the nub you have installed to see if it's simply too soft & replace it with something better.

Remove the barrel & hop unit and look down the barrel as you increase hop to see if it's actually putting sufficient hop on.

 

I've had similar problems where this has been the cause.

I've done this and I can see the bucking deform as I apply hop up. Just when I fire it, it doesn't seem to have any noticeable effect. I'll check the fps tomorrow and then go from there. If my fps is 340 as it should be, I'll buy another hop up unit. What recommendations would people have? I'll defo go for a Madbull bucking though.

[beastmode]

https://youtu.be/09xomaDYlDI

 

There's a video on how to flat hop it's pretty easy. I'd also do the Teflon tape mod go the bucking. My bucking went in fine just use plenty of silicone oil.

[BrightCandle]

My S&T Tar 21's initial hop unit absolutely hated 0.28g BBs, it just couldn't lift them properly at all. The initial rubber was garbage but I replaced with a G&G green and it worked a lot better then, but only with 0.25g BBs. Some hop units just really can't apply the steady pressure necessary to lift the heavier BBs and as a result the range is quite limited.

 

Are we talking 90 feet effective (flat trajectory point) or maximum range (when it hits the floor after a flat shot)? Because its effective range its pretty normal for a stock gun, for maximum range that is hop not working well at all. But I would try some lighter BBs and you may find it performs better.

[ronin677]

My S&T Tar 21's initial hop unit absolutely hated 0.28g BBs, it just couldn't lift them properly at all. The initial rubber was garbage but I replaced with a G&G green and it worked a lot better then, but only with 0.25g BBs. Some hop units just really can't apply the steady pressure necessary to lift the heavier BBs and as a result the range is quite limited.

 

Are we talking 90 feet effective (flat trajectory point) or maximum range (when it hits the floor after a flat shot)? Because its effective range its pretty normal for a stock gun, for maximum range that is hop not working well at all. But I would try some lighter BBs and you may find it performs better.

The 90 feet is max range. flat trajectory is approx 60 - 70 feet. Glad to hear that some hop ups just don't like 0.28g bb's. I'm testing the fps tomorrow at my airsoft site and we'll see if Taiwanguns have been truthful. I'll replace the hop up anyway and replace the bucking with a better one.

[ronin677]

https://youtu.be/09xomaDYlDI

 

There's a video on how to flat hop it's pretty easy. I'd also do the Teflon tape mod go the bucking. My bucking went in fine just use plenty of silicone oil.

Ahh, so I have done R hops before and been successful. This flat hop though, do you install a R Hop or just allow the 'flat' bucking to protrude through the barrel window? Sorry if that's a stupid question.

[beastmode]

Technically you would need to flat hop before you do an R hop anyway. But yeah you just sand the off the nub inside the bucking so it's flat and then fit a h nub. A r hop would produce better results but it's easier to get wrong. I haven't done an R hop yet for this reason.

[BrightCandle]

Technically you would need to flat hop before you do an R hop anyway. But yeah you just sand the off the nub inside the bucking so it's flat and then fit a h nub. A r hop would produce better results but it's easier to get wrong. I haven't done an R hop yet for this reason.

 

I can attest to the fact its a complete pain in the backside to do and tweak, despite the claims of how easy a Z kit is to actually install, practically I spent a day on a site just messing with it.

[beastmode]

Yeah I've tried to do it with a z kit and I failed completely with it. So I'm sticking with flat hops at the moment which seems to be giving pretty good results. Obviously not as good as R hop but still pretty good.

[ronin677]

Whats an H nub?

 

When I fitted my R Hop, I too spent more time doing it than anticipated. Its in my Dragunov though so I am happy I done it.

[ImTriggerHappy]

Technically you would need to flat hop before you do an R hop anyway. But yeah you just sand the off the nub inside the bucking so it's flat and then fit a h nub. A r hop would produce better results but it's easier to get wrong. I haven't done an R hop yet for this reason.

You dont fit a h nub for flat hop you use a flat nub like shs or firefly with a shaved bucking.

I use a h nub with a shaved bucking but dont know what you would call it. It gives good results but is a pain to set right and destroys the bucking fast.

[ImTriggerHappy]

Whats an H nub?

 

When I fitted my R Hop, I too spent more time doing it than anticipated. Its in my Dragunov though so I am happy I done it.

Its nub thats shaped like a dumbell rather than a standard cylinder.

[ronin677]

So the problem with the rifle was the weight of the bb's. I put 0.2g through it today and the range has probably doubled. The fps is only 280 though, so im a bit annoyed at Taiwangun who said the fps was 340 when shipped

[ronin677]

BTW guys, I still want to upgrade the hop up unit. I will buy a G&G green bucking as I have experienced these and trust it. What hop uo unit should I buy though? I need one that will fit a G&G GR16 (this type fits my JG M16A1)

 

thanks

[beastmode]

Should be a standard m4 hop unit so I'd go with a prowin. They are about 20quid on ebay. Got 1 in my L85.

[ronin677]

Should be a standard m4 hop unit so I'd go with a prowin. They are about 20quid on ebay. Got 1 in my L85.

cheers

[Sitting Duck]

Thing is the moment you start tinkering with hop-up's there is always a chance you can actually make it worse before you make it better

 

After have a nightmare on my 416 - 3 x hop units ok none of them hi end but jeez what mixed results I was getting.......

 

stock one max fps but feeding issues on higher speed full auto

new metal (cheapo) one tiny tiny drop if fps but nice feeding - would of ran with this but hop wasn't very effective

crappy plastic one - feed perfectly but quite a drop in fps.....

 

breifly explain - ShortStroke 2 teeth and was expecting to come down from hot 395fps TWG to about 350/360ish on stock spring

dunno but must of got seals bang on in box even doing AOE which loses a smidge - still getting 385 to 390 on stock hop

 

Metal one performed well feed & 360ish fps wise but not able to control a straight line like others - probably bad bucking or bad install

 

eventually improve the crappy plastic one from dropping to 270fps to about 340 - still not perfect flight on a 407mm tbb but decided to go with that for a game

 

My theory is there is a fine line as nozzle travels - probably this total travel may only be about 8 or 9mm - 6mm to feed a bb with a mm or two either side

to load and push bb & seal to hop in one smooth transition

 

The 3 hop units were different especially metal Vs stock hop and I also feel the total travel may not have say 9mm but more like 8mm

this is despite me shaving tappet to increase start/finish position of nozzle, ensuring and try a few different tappet plates to ensure it travels back as much as possible without bending up at the end too much as it hits the end of cam travel

one tappet when fully pulled back had a good 1 or 1.5mm slack - I could push nozzle further back home against head so 8mm travel was probably 7mm

way too little to feed n seal properly - more reopening of box again

 

refit best possible tappet I could find - also noted the tappet plates vary a bit - the one I'm using has the nozzle mount U "ridge" slight forward of tappet mount - where as shs tappet the nozzle ridge was further back and nozzle sat a smidge further back on the shs tappet plate

(possible better feed but not so great rammed home against bucking to seal)

 

Jeez what a f*cking nightmare and it seems to like mid-caps than high caps

Never experienced so much grief - they normally punched as expected or there abouts

 

and yes the red shs nozzle was same size or nigh on exact same size as stock nozzle fitted

so wasn't expecting to grind nozzle which I decided against as if too much removed I could be boned

 

Yeah I feel ya pain - the fps drop could be the nozzle not quite sealing 101% on the lip of the bucking

that is where you might be losing and not the gun/box itself

 

Yeah right pain in the ar$e I know

[ronin677]

Dropped my bb weight from 0.28 down to 0.25g and the problem is solved. This rifles fires like a daemon now